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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Adding physical security to my bike quote = price went up by 1/3rd.

Trust no one.


Troo-say.

Always look for the best combinations - if you only want TPFT, look at Comp with a huge voluntary excess just in case it works out cheaper. Run as many combinations as you can.


Does the excess not apply to fire & theft then? (shows how much small print I don't read Embarassed )
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

They often differ, as you say read the small print.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Does the excess not apply to fire & theft then? (shows how much small print I don't read Embarassed )


Ah I see where you're coming from there, sorry I have been somewhat misleading (runs in the profession Laughing ).

It still applies, and I meant really if you're only after TPO rather than TPFT, ie you'd never claim. I said TPFT because that was on my brain having just dealt with my own car policy.

Because the excess applies to less (ie there's no accidental damage) on a TPFT policy, some of the algorithms will give you a much lesser discount for a big voluntary TPFT excess than they will for comprehensive. If the coefficient to increase to comp is lower than the discount applied for the excess then you'll effectively get a cheaper Comprehensive policy than you would a TPFT. The excess will still preclude you making a claim in reality, but you've ended up with a cheaper policy out of it.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: JMI: Just Motorcycle Insurance Brokers Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
Bike ins was up for renewal, went via Confused.com and best policy seemed to be with Just Motorcycle insurance.

On proposing the policy I was asked to estimate my annual mileage and di this at between 4000-4999 miles.

I took out the policy at 8:45pm last night, all online without actually speaking to a representative, on getting the docs I discovered a clause that stated that if I exceeded my estimate they would unlikely pay out in the event of a claim, in the past this 'estimate' has always been that, an estimate, and was not a hard and fast amount that I couldn't exceed, I do understand that if my mileage was wildly different from the estimate it may cause problems, but I've never had it stated as a hard and fast number...


I had the same with the car insurance with Adrian Flux the other year: My estimated mileage suddenly transformed into a hard & fast "Never Exceed" mileage.

I've never had that before, it wasn't made mentioned anywhere on the proposal until it suddenly appeared on the policy document.

It's probably not legally enforceable but it's still not nice and smacks of sharp practice.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
I signed up for an estimated mileage. Estimate is just that, a figure expected to vary, when policy docs got delivered this variable figure had turned into a hard and fast maximum...


Analogkid wrote:
Those picking on the fact that I am somehow trying to lowball them with mileage are missing the point, its the ins co that ask for an estimate, there is no caveat suggesting I should overestimate in case I go over my top estimate figure, had they asked for a maximum mileage ceiling as in some classic car policies that would be different, however they asked me to estimate and then delivered a maximum based on that...


I totally get where you're coming from: It seems that many don't understand the difference between “Estimate” and “Maximum”. They are not the same thing.

For example, I've had my car for 4 years and I've done 24,000 miles in that time. I therefore estimate that I do approx. 6,000 miles per year. That's a totally honest estimate, not a promise that I'll never exceed it.

If my insurers want to impose a maximum mileage, that's fine: They just say so at the outset. It's not hard.
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJP wrote:
It seems that many don't understand the difference between “Estimate” and “Maximum”. They are not the same thing.


Quite. In much the same way that “May not pay out” and “Will not pay out” also mean different things.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "may not pay out" would depend on just how wrong your "estimate" was?

And it'd be reasonable for them to expect you to tell them if you're going to exceed or have exceeded your estimated annual mileage?
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The "may not pay out" would depend on just how wrong your "estimate" was?

And it'd be reasonable for them to expect you to tell them if you're going to exceed or have exceeded your estimated annual mileage?


Yes, exactly. The fact the OP has got all upset about it is either because he doesn’t understand this or has (more likely) lowballed then to reduce premium.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

Seriously, why do you think they ask? what's the point if it's just for shits n giggles?

Most people fully understand that you're supposed to pick a figure which will cover your expected maximum mileage. I really don't see the issue here.


Yes, and I have done, as the OP did.

however, I can't know that my dad might pass away and my mum need to go into a care home resulting in me hopping across from Manchester to Leeds every weekend for a month or two sorting all their assets out etc which would up my millage for the year considerably.

I expect that I'll do 13-14k so I put 15k as my estimate to give a bit of clearance for the occasional longer trip.

going Manc to Leeds every weekend for a couple of months could push that easily to 17k (and I'd need to let my insurance know I suppose)

but your responses in this thread imply that I should consider the unexpected and account for it in my estimate.
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blue_painted
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I set my estimated mileage at 5,000 and after a few months realised I was going to bust through that ... so i called the insurance company to adjust up to 7,000: they said "fine"and made no charge.
Seemed quite simple really.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
DJP wrote:
I totally get where you're coming from: It seems that many don't understand the difference between “Estimate” .....


Seriously, why do you think they ask? what's the point if it's just for shits n giggles?

Most people fully understand that you're supposed to pick a figure which will cover your expected maximum mileage. I really don't see the issue here.

"Estimate" does not mean non binding and just for laughs. They're offering a price based on risk. Estimating a maximum mileage is just one way of them being able to offer better pricing for lower risk. My insurance has specified this for at least 5 years. I've never gone over the "estimation", because I estimate enough mileage.


Thanks for the bump 💋
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
however they asked me to estimate and then delivered a maximum based on that. The company agreed that they got it wrong and fully refunded, so my point was valid, even if some in here think otherwise.


More likely they decided giving you the £25 fee was better than the £££ they would have had to pay FOS should it have gone that far...

Would you hold a builder or a garage to a estimate for work if they found more work needed doing?
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woo
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dunno sound like a lot of anger for pointlessness lol

OP has the bad angrys lol
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course the big question is what they would decide was too much over the top if it came to a claim. If it is a percentage, say 10%, going over if you have stated 10,000 miles means you get an extra 1000 miles and if 5% only 500 miles.

If you only have only put something like 3000 it's 300 or 150 if 5%.

Not a lot of leeway at all really and if it's a really expensive claim I bet the scrutineers have orders to find escape clauses.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bigger the claim, the more they'll look for ways out of having to payout.

Before deciding how much over your estimated annual mileage is reasonable, personally I'd be asking why haven't you notified us that you're doing more miles than you'd estimated.
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Of course the big question is what they would decide was too much over the top if it came to a claim. If it is a percentage, say 10%, going over if you have stated 10,000 miles means you get an extra 1000 miles and if 5% only 500 miles.

If you only have only put something like 3000 it's 300 or 150 if 5%.

Not a lot of leeway at all really and if it's a really expensive claim I bet the scrutineers have orders to find escape clauses.


As I've already said, they could squark all they liked, but the reality is they'd only be able to apply a proportional remedy because I doubt they'd be able to prove you'd not have been accepted at any terms, even if you did 10,000 miles. They'd have just wanted more premium for it.

Worst case they reduce your claim by the % you've underpaid according to their rating guide. Best case they just rush you for the extra premium and pay your claim in full.

If you did just under 6000 miles, and the band for 5001-6000 was an extra 10 quid - I doubt they'd even bother. The madness of the situation is it's probably a score in the difference either way - which is tight AF to be worrying and arguing about really.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Worst case they reduce your claim by the % you've underpaid according to their rating guide. Best case they just rush you for the extra premium and pay your claim in full.

Those sound like small numbers. What about for multi million pound personal injury claims from third parties? They could void your policy then your insurer would either have to pay out to the third parties regardless or it'd be passed to the MIB?

Someone being over their mileage by a relatively small amount is a different situation than if someone has lied through their teeth by estimating their annual mileage at a fraction of what your mileage will really be?
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to lowball anyone, in over 600k of driving and insuring vehicles I've never had an estimate turned into a hard fact, if I was to go 250 over that they 'could' have been arsey in the event of a claim, a risk I was not prepared to take, and if I was to call up and adjust my mileage for a small amount of mileage they would have charged me a fee for adjustment, I'm highly unlikely to exceed my mileage as bike is for sdp use, and is on an sdp policy the only way I would I would go over with any significance, was if I had to commute, however I'd need to adjust more than the mileage.

I was concerned when after getting the policy I noticed a clause re the mileage, with changing an estimate into a maximum, I initially called up to ask them to amend the clause, they said I could live with it or I could cancel, when I cancelled they wanted to charge me, this I thought unfair as I didn't get the product I thought I had bought and therefore shouldn't be charged.

Those trying to suggest that I was somehow being dishonest or trying to save a couple of quid, should not judge others by your own metric, the replacement policy cost more than the £25 'cooling off fee' from JMI but there are no unexpected clauses in it, so I am happy, the cost wasn't the issue, but fine if you want to be the mouthpiece for the Insurance industry, then wire in.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
Those trying to suggest that I was somehow being dishonest or trying to save a couple of quid, should not judge others by your own metric

Make me.

They're corrvpt scvm, but you're rage ranting over nothing.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 22 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the hate-rage the usually occurs at the mere mention of insurance ( Mr. Green ), I'm frankly amazed at the number of people standing up for the insurance broker/company over this.

I've no particular objection to limited mileage policies but if that's what I'm buying then I expect to be told at the outset and not after I've paid the premium.

It really is that simple.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 22 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJP wrote:
I'm frankly amazed at the number of people standing up for the insurance broker/company over this.

The objective is just for the OP and anyone else to avoid hassle. Allow enough room to play with in the annual mileage estimate and unless something significant changes you won't need to worry about how much they'll rape you for adding extra miles to your annual mileage or who you'd say borrowed your bike to take around Europe.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 22 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJP wrote:
I'm frankly amazed at the number of people standing up for the insurance broker/company

The corrvpt scvm?

It's possible for both parties to a contract to be spackers.
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