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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:32 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Suntan Sid wrote: |
The pitchforked mob, with any luck they'll ransack every fcukin' starbuckscostanero and destroy all cctv and speed cameras!
We can only hope! |
Dream on. I think the spirit of the British people has been ground down too far (intentionally?) for any of that stuff. We are weak sheep.
Unless maybe there's a free tv in it. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 16:43 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: | they'll make up a war somewhere like Vietnam or N Korea. They will then bring back mass wave infantry attacks. |
They'd have to cull conchies on the home front, given that I expect most modern Brits to say "Not my problem, bruv, I'll do me time in Playstation Camp. Oh, you can't afford that? Thought so."
Itchy wrote: | Much like WW1 where soldiers were asked to walk in neat lines so the Germans could pick them off easily. |
Do you genuinely believe that it was a specific, explicit strategy in WWI to cull our own troops?
Given that the loss among the officer classes (the toffs) was even higher, how deep and shadowy and spooooky was the cabal behind this? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:50 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Remember that the Asian mind doesn't work in the same way as the western mind. Remember all those human wave attacks the N.Vietnamese and N.Koreans carried out in those respective wars? Not to mention the Japanese in countless actions during WW2. I rather suspect the Chinese would resort to the same if the nukes weren't flying. Strange people. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Sload |
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Sload World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 10:26 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Sload wrote: | No, although it was the last war I think where the children of influential people got mown down with the rest of the sheep. |
Some 12% of the British army's ordinary soldiers were killed during the [first world] war, compared with 17% of its officers. Eton alone lost more than 1,000 former pupils - 20% of those who served. UK wartime Prime Minister Herbert Asquith lost a son, while future Prime Minister Andrew Bonar Law lost two. Anthony Eden lost two brothers, another brother of his was terribly wounded, and an uncle was captured.
Itchy:
Rogerborg wrote: | Do you genuinely believe that it was a specific, explicit strategy in WWI to cull our own troops? |
____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 12:27 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: | Rogerborg wrote: | Do you genuinely believe that it was a specific, explicit strategy in WWI to cull our own troops? |
Absolutely. |
Why do you believe that? Based on what evidence?
The prime minister's son got done in by the Hun.
How did (((they))) persuade Asquith to send him over the top in some apparently sub-optimal strategy that was designed to not defeat the Bosch until we'd culled and crippled millions of young men.
Specific examples of how both sides employed equally incompetent fight-to-not-win strategies, please, and the (((individuals))) who gave those orders, and why they were followed by our politicians and military.
Hint: using 20:20 hindsight or imaginary technologies or tactics that didn't exist at the time will result in 2 demerits. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:10 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: |
A lot of the things can be explained for example walking rather than running. Boggy ground and too much equipment.
However a number of things can't be explained other than the cull theory.
One of them was from years ago something I remember from somewhere.
British soldiers were ordered to hold their rifles against their chests. I'm not a military man, you're not a military man. But I know that the shooty bit goes towards the enemy. Soldiers 2000 years ago knew the pointy bits went towards the enemy.
It was 1917 and not the Napoleonic wars. Rifles were a well developed technology where they were fast long ranged and accurate. |
Soldiers were told to walk, not run because it was boggy ground. This was an attempt to keep the cohesion of the attack. Soldiers approaching the enemy lines in dribs and drabs would not have been very effective. It is a method that has been used by many armies before and since.
British tactics were misguided, not deliberately suicidal. Higher command was often shown to be incompetent. This sometimes stretched further down the ranks, as it does in any army, even today. "Lets do everything on a militarily unsound basis so we can get rid of some of our pesky over-population" is something I have only ever heard from you. Give me good reasons to believe you, over the weight of studied opinions of all the others who have written on this subject. Where is your best-selling work on the subject that has been accepted as an authoritative (not to mention revelatory) benchmark? I have been unable to find a copy. I presume this is because it has only been published in China, with the usual disagreement between the Chinese and the west meaning it has not been accepted by western historians?
TL/DR: Itchy, you're so full of shit sometimes ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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jjdugen |
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jjdugen World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:21 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy is more right than you give credit. It was a military 'solution' developed as far back as the American Civil War.
When you engage in mechanised war, the defender has the natural advantage. Machine guns, rapid fire rifles, zeroed artillery able to hit specific targets, the trenches gave pretty good protection. Until the tank came along the only way of promoting the war, other than allowing stalemate, was to attack.
It is well documented that the calculation was made that German manpower would be drained before the Allies stock of young men, the Americans finally joining in making that calculation inevitable.
As a specific. the German attack on Verdun was specifically designed to draw as many French soldiers into a killing field as possible, the term, bleed them dry was applied. But, as was usual, attackers and defenders lost about the same numbers. Why keep repeating this idiocy? It was the least worst solution. ____________________ The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi? |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:44 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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jjdugen wrote: | Itchy is more right than you give credit. |
You say this, then you fail to back Itchy's point.
Yes, we all know that WW1 turned into a war of attrition. But not for the reasons Itchy thinks. The point was still to win the war. If we are to believe Itchy, we would have to accept that winning the war wasn't of primary concern. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 14:22 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: | British soldiers were ordered to hold their rifles against their chests. |
And in some cases to unload them. Because if they can shoot, they will shoot, and go to ground, instead of advancing and giving Jerry Fritz Hun a taste of cold steel. They don't like it up 'em. Also, hand grenades.
Itchy wrote: | Rifles were a well developed technology where they were fast long ranged and accurate. |
Sure, and if 10,000 attacking soldiers along a two mile front all stopped to shoot at defenders in a trench, they might - might - have hit one of them. If they all shot five times.
You get that advances were ordered because the casualty rate from shooting at people in trenches with small arms was close to zero, right?
What alternative strategy would you suggest that would have been more effective against entrenched enemies, but which we avoided using?
Shelling by artillery, mortars, rifle grenades? We tried that, lots. Artillery doesn't take ground.
Chemical weapons. Used by all sides. You still have to advance to take the trench.
Some form of protected mobile land-battleship? Oh, right.
Are ported rifles the sum total of your evidence for there being a strategy of getting as many men killed and wounded as possible?
Where's your evidence that the order to do that came from (((Them)))? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 15:19 - 19 Dec 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:56 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | British soldiers were ordered to hold their rifles against their chests. |
chickenstrip wrote: | Rifles were a well developed technology where they were fast long ranged and accurate. |
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Oi! No, he didn't! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:58 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: | Rogerborg wrote: | Shelling by artillery, |
Shelling by artillery and actually aiming it? Even using trial and error to adjust your aim a bit.
If 2000 years ago Romans could use trial and error with their siege engines where maths was not widely understood why was this impossible 100 years ago? So 5 days of barrage and they fail to hit anything?
That's as believable as the USAF the most powerful, technologically advanced fighting force saying they can't find and hit 10 mile long convoys of Toyota Hiluxes in an area without dense jungle and foliage. When 20 years prior the USN managed to destroy the Iraqis in similar circumstances. |
Just the very first article I found. I'm sure I could find many similar:
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/how-the-british-artillery-developed-and-became-a-war-winning-factor-in-1914-1918/ ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 141 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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