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BananaLover |
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BananaLover Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 08 May 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 15:09 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: Painting bike for the first time |
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I purchased a HVLP spray gun and this matt black paint.
I've never done anything like this, but I've been doing quite a bit of research so I don't fail dramatically. I still have a few questions.
I'll be doing two bikes, my old bike first to get the hang of it, and them my current bike. Both bikes have metal tanks and what the rest is more elastic material that reminds plastic but is not. I will also add two white lines from back to front.
1) What grit sandpaper should I be using to get rid of paint. I understand I'd be doing it in increments, but I'm reading quite a lot of different answers.
2) What grit should I use between coats?
3) How much sanding do I need to do? Do I need to roughen up the area or do I need to get off as much as I possibly can?
4) The paint says 3-1 mix ratio, does that mean I'll be adding 3 paint to 1 water or reverse?
5) How long do I need to leave my parts dry before use?
Current plan from my research is as follows, sand off original gloss black paint until it's not shiny (so not all the paint just dull the surface) with light pressure in circular motion using 180 grit, I then apply my first coat, wait for it to not be sticky before sanding it with 600 grit a bit and repeating these steps for all 4-5 coats. I then leave it for 24 hours before I put tape on my parts for the white lines in the centre, and do just 2 coats for that.
How does this sound? Haven't purchased the matt white yet, but I was looking at ordering this. |
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chris-red |
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chris-red Have you considered a TDM?
Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 15:22 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: Painting bike for the first time |
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BananaLover wrote: | I purchased a HVLP spray gun and this matt black paint.
I've never done anything like this, but I've been doing quite a bit of research so I don't fail dramatically. I still have a few questions.
I'll be doing two bikes, my old bike first to get the hang of it, and them my current bike. Both bikes have metal tanks and what the rest is more elastic material that reminds plastic but is not. I will also add two white lines from back to front.
1) What grit sandpaper should I be using to get rid of paint. I understand I'd be doing it in increments, but I'm reading quite a lot of different answers.
2) What grit should I use between coats?
3) How much sanding do I need to do? Do I need to roughen up the area or do I need to get off as much as I possibly can?
4) The paint says 3-1 mix ratio, does that mean I'll be adding 3 paint to 1 water or reverse?
5) How long do I need to leave my parts dry before use?
Current plan from my research is as follows, sand off original gloss black paint until it's not shiny (so not all the paint just dull the surface) with light pressure in circular motion using 180 grit, I then apply my first coat, wait for it to not be sticky before sanding it with 600 grit a bit and repeating these steps for all 4-5 coats. I then leave it for 24 hours before I put tape on my parts for the white lines in the centre, and do just 2 coats for that.
How does this sound? Haven't purchased the matt white yet, but I was looking at ordering this. |
I'm no expert, but that grits sounds way to low to me. I'd Start with 800, and use 1600/3200 wet between coats. You'll never get a clean finish with 600.
Edit:- Take my advice with a pinch of salt. I've never 'properly' painted anything. However recently I cleaned up my car headlights by sanding/polishing them. I started with 800 and worked up to 6400 then polished it change well but I wouldn't expect anything sanded with 800 to be smooth for paint. ____________________ Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything. |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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raesewell |
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raesewell Traffic Copper
Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Karma :
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 20:26 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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You don't need to sand off as much as possible of the old paint unless it's damaged / starting to flake / etc etc etc, you're just wanting to take the shine off it as the new paint will adhere better to a very slightly roughen surface rather than it does to a perfectly smooth surface.
Each coat of paint only needs to be very thin, do not be in a rush with any of it. With the sanding you need to be in even less of a rush, unless the paintwork or metal work is damaged you're only wanting to sand off a tiny amount. Apply slightly too much paint or be too enthusiastic with the wet & dry and you'll have to spend lots of time making the surface and finish good again.
You can always sand off very very slightly more or apply another really thin coat of paint but the opposite isn't nearly as straight forward.
You might be able get away with using 600 grit paper before the first coat although if the paint is in a half decent condition then I'd be inclined to use 800. Between coats I'd be using 1000+ and after the final coat use even finer grit paper.
What raesewell says about getting material to practise on is a very sensible idea before you start doing anything to your two bikes.
Patience is your best friend. |
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Chris45 |
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Chris45 Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 20:41 - 18 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Don't go anywhere near the bike until you've had plenty of practice on some pieces of metal. I got two old parts from a scrapped bike and practiced using them. As the guys say, do NOT use sandpaper . Wet 'n Dry ONLY, and don't use a harsh grade to try and hurry things along. Patience is the key to this job. A lot of guys on here will also tell you to get this, that or the other paint, depending on whether its a full exhibit resto or just to tart up your daily hack. As for me, I use a good quality primer, followed by Halfords undercoat then gloss, followed by a good quality laquer to seal it all. Some will question that no doubt, but I have a very limited budget and a '97 GPz 500 which looks very clean and presentable. ____________________ Honda CG125>Suzuki GT185>Honda CB 250N>Suzuki GSX400>Honda CX500B>Kawasaki GPZ305> Kawasaki GPZ550>Kawasaki GPZ500S+BMW 650GS |
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kippyzona |
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kippyzona Nova Slayer
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redeem ouzzer |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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Bikeless |
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Bikeless World Chat Champion
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BananaLover |
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BananaLover Borekit Bruiser
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BananaLover |
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BananaLover Borekit Bruiser
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kippyzona |
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kippyzona Nova Slayer
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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:54 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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A100man wrote: |
Also 2k is poisonous so risky to paint in an enclosed space without a mask.. |
This is the mask I own currently, should this be fine? I didn't realise it's actually dangerous, but I did purchase this specific mask because I saw same one (looks wise anyway) in a guys garage who does paining.[/quote]
It's the sane one I have. Didn't smell any vapour while painting (a car) so I presumed that was a good thing! ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 11:28 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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BananaLover wrote: | A100man wrote: | needs to be mixed with a catalyst/hardener |
Good to know. The ratio question still stands, 3 paint to 1 hardener, correct? Looked at some options,
unless corrected I'll order this.
A100man wrote: |
Also 2k is poisonous so risky to paint in an enclosed space without a mask.. |
This is the mask I own currently, should this be fine? I didn't realise it's actually dangerous, but I did purchase this specific mask because I saw same one (looks wise anyway) in a guys garage who does paining. |
I painted my campervan interior furniture boarding with 2K paint for the first time last year. I did it in late September and temperatures were getting too low then.
A few problems I see are firstly, you need to spray in an environment of around 18 degrees C or higher. 2K also needs a decent temperature to fully cure. It will never cure in these sort of ambient temperatures.
Secondly, that mask is not up to 2K paint fumes. I spoke to and bought all my paint, hardener and thinners from Jawel.
This is the only mask without respirator, which they say is good enough for 8 hours filtration use with 2K paint. Speak to them once you've worked out how you're going to spray in this temperature.
It also goes without saying that an open electric fan heater could be a very bad idea in a closed environment with lots of flammable paint fumes.
https://www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=169&products_id=3420&zenid=fgg1rlv94jp595aes4ivljru83 ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 12:01 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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BananaLover wrote: | I'm surprised so many people got upset of the idea of sandpaper. |
It's fine, it's just BCF Teffing out and trying to turn it some esoteric process that you will never, ever be as expert in as BCF, evar.
Scuff up the paint a bit then and get spraying. You'll get it right and win, or get it wrong and learn.
The only thing I would stress is: don't rush it. Or rush it.
Put each layer on top of still wet paint (don't do this because you're not as expert as BCF and it will run), or on top of dry paint. Nothing in between.
Other than that, it's just a case of hitting it with paint, removing your mistakes, and repeating until you've got a layer with no mistakes.
Lacquer takes weeks to cure fully. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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BananaLover |
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BananaLover Borekit Bruiser
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rpsmith79 |
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rpsmith79 World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:09 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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BananaLover wrote: | I read about waiting just 10 minutes between coats, does that sound correct? |
Nope.
That'll still be wet. It'll run. Robosprayer can do wet-on-wet, professionals maybe, BCF can of course do it, but not you or I.
Leave each coat at least several hours, in the warm. Do not for the love of allah try and sand off any mistakes while it's still wet, or you'll make a gritty, sticky mess, like a sunblock handjob on the beach.
A warm weekend is about the minimum I'd plan in for doing a half decent job (which is all I've ever done). At wintersolsticee'enmass, I have no idea, but I'd be using active heating to dry it off. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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kippyzona |
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kippyzona Nova Slayer
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:37 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Blimey, there’s some odd advice here. This is not how I understand it from the tutorials I read before I did my furniture.
If you plan on using 2K aka 2 Pack paint, you cannot spray outdoors in this weather, nor can you apply more coats once dry. You allow to flash iff between coats, but must do all coats in one hit.
https://www.vwt5forum.co.uk/picture.php?albumid=25385&pictureid=383321
I used an old party tent to spray in September.
https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/picture.php?albumid=25385&pictureid=376882 ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 23:52 - 19 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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stevo as b4 wrote: | Every 5min or so I would keep adding another light coat until satisfied. |
If you're going to do wet on wet, I'd stress the importance of light coats, for which you need a fine mist and no spatters.
I guess there's an argument to be made for just going for it, then if / when you get a run, leave it to dry then sand it off. It'll still probably work out quicker than leaving each layer to dry like us careful now types do.
What works for your base, paint and conditions will be what works for your base, paint and conditions. Just do eeeet. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Shaft |
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Shaft World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 00:11 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: Painting bike for the first time |
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BananaLover wrote: | I purchased a HVLP spray gun and this matt black paint.
I've never done anything like this, but I've been doing quite a bit of research so I don't fail dramatically. I still have a few questions.
I'll be doing two bikes, my old bike first to get the hang of it, and them my current bike. Both bikes have metal tanks and what the rest is more elastic material that reminds plastic but is not. I will also add two white lines from back to front.
1) What grit sandpaper should I be using to get rid of paint. I understand I'd be doing it in increments, but I'm reading quite a lot of different answers.
2) What grit should I use between coats?
3) How much sanding do I need to do? Do I need to roughen up the area or do I need to get off as much as I possibly can?
4) The paint says 3-1 mix ratio, does that mean I'll be adding 3 paint to 1 water or reverse?
5) How long do I need to leave my parts dry before use?
Current plan from my research is as follows, sand off original gloss black paint until it's not shiny (so not all the paint just dull the surface) with light pressure in circular motion using 180 grit, I then apply my first coat, wait for it to not be sticky before sanding it with 600 grit a bit and repeating these steps for all 4-5 coats. I then leave it for 24 hours before I put tape on my parts for the white lines in the centre, and do just 2 coats for that.
How does this sound? Haven't purchased the matt white yet, but I was looking at ordering this. |
Jesus, where to begin!
OK, health warning first - 2K (AKA 2 pack) paint is farking dangerous shizzle - some people are exposed to it for years with no problems, some people get an instant alergic reaction and go into respiratory shock; it should be used in a very well ventilated area, but having a stiff breeze whistling through your paint zone isn't ideal, which is why painters use air fed masks in booths with industrial strength filters and extractors.
Your choice dude, but I wouldn't do it.
The paint you have bought clearly says it is ready mixed, 3 parts paint to 1 part thinners - sounds a bit thick to me, but could be right. You will be needing some compatible thinners anyway (for cleaning your equipment) so you can thin it if you need, some practice painting will be required.
You will also be needing compatible hardener, without that, it will literally never dry.
2K cures by chemical reaction (although it does also require a reasonable temperature to accelerate the process) so without the catalyst, it stays liquid forever.
You linked to some white aerosol paint, but it doesn't say if it's compatible with 2K - if it isn't, you will get a reaction, probably requiring stripping everything back and starting again. Better to buy some white paint that's the same as the black.
Keying the surface of your existing panels should be done with 800 grit paper, or a Scotchbrite pad - using 180 grit is equivalent to rubbing it with a house brick.
When it comes to painting, allow each coat to flash off (10-15 minutes max, at an ambient temp of around 60) but don't allow coats to dry completely - the idea is, each successive coat partially dissolves the one before, allowing everything to flow together, giving an even finish and depth.
You have two big issues with the finish and colours you have chosen.
Firstly, matte finishes don't lend themselves to having imperfections flatted out - once you've flatted it, then you need to polish out your flatting marks, then you don't have a matte finish.
Secondly, white doesn't easily cover black, so you have two choices - either mask up the stripes first, then paint one colour, remask and paint the other, or paint the white first, mask and paint the black.
For masking the edges of the stripes, you will need fineline tape - ordinary masking tape will leave a frilly edge and possible colour bleed.
Either way, you will finish up with a step which will need to be flatted - see point one.
An easier way would be to use gloss base coats (which you can flat and polish as much as you like) then bury the lot in matte clear lacquer.
Whatever you do, your last coat needs to be flawless - see earlier point, again.
Ignore everything if you don't mind wobbly edges and an uneven finish, just don't ignore the health warning, that's pretty bloody important. ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 121 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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