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redwarfie
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Joined: 21 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Pre CBT future planning... Reply with quote

Afternoon all!

Having had a good look through the forums, I'm still unsure about what to do / what to plan in relation to my future motorcycling life?

I am currently 21, turning 22 in a couple of months, and having been a passenger many years ago on my dad's bike, and being absolutely horrified by the costs of insuring something with 4 wheels, am seriously considering getting a bike as my daily commute.

Now I know this may seem really pre-emptive to some of you, however I just want to get some idea as to what the best method would be to learn?

I am more than aware of the steps to be taken, ie CBT, further lessons (whilst not required, are a bloody good idea to learn in a controlled way), and then take age appropriate test for a bigger bike.

My commute itself would be roughly 7 miles each way, along a fairly easy, flat A road, so no massive difficulties that I can think of there!

I may also be able to "borrow" a 125cc that my dad has, whilst this would be a scooter and I would ultimately want to ride a geared bike, I cannot really afford to buy a bike as well as everything else on top (running costs would be covered by the current price I pay for my train/bus to work).

My really quandary is to whether I just do the CBT, ride around until I am 24 and then sit the full test, or should I also complete the A2 test, have more choice for the time being but then have to pay to sit the full test in two years' time?

I have seen some pretty compelling arguments to getting straight onto the A2 license ASAP, however I would have to pay to sit two tests, roughly two year apart (I would 100% ensure I had my A2 for at least two years (if I choose the take the A2) so that I do not have to resit the theory before taking the full test) and I am not entirely convinced that this would be particularly cost effective, also sitting two tests in two years does not sound fun either!

Any input on this situation would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Dan
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the CBT done first..
There is slim chance you may not like it.

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Stoker
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst you're deciding, study for and take your theory test, costs less than £20. I say "study", as it aint simple, the hazard perception part floors quite a few folks! You will need to do it to get a licence to pilot a car or bike.......
Do your cbt, it will be a fun day out on a motorbike, with experts helping you throughout.
Don't worry too much about what Tef is about to say, he's from a different age that refuses to keep up with the times,
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 21 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Pre CBT future planning... Reply with quote

redwarfie wrote:
should I also complete the A2 test, have more choice for the time being but then have to pay to sit the full test in two years' time?

With an A2 license you can buy a 595cc 40-70kW bike, restrict or "restrict" it down to 35kW for A2, then "derestrict" it for your A tests.

That'll cost you about £90 and a couple of hours with no need to get a training school involved again, so it's a poor reason to avoid doing A2 now.

Blagging a quick go on an A2 training bike after your CBT will help make your mind up.
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PhilR
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Joined: 08 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 08 Mar 2018    Post subject: Advice for a First Timer Reply with quote

Hi all, first post for me.
My wife thinks I'm having a mid-life crisis but on my bucket list now I've turned 50 is to get a bike licence so I can ride a 175cc bike. I passed my car licence in 1985.
Am I correct in thinking that if I wanted to, I could ride up to a 50cc bike without a CBT but with L plates via the grandfather scheme (does this still exist)? Then anything up to 125cc would require a CBT and L plates?
I do have access to a 50cc bike and I wonder if I could gain some riding experience for a month or two before looking at doing the next stage.
I have no intention of getting a huge engine bike as I have a 175cc BSA Bantam which I have restored and which I am itching to ride on the road.
I just need to find the best route to achieving this whilst also taking advantage of using the 50cc to gain some experience on local roads.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 08 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best route would be to just get DAs over and done with.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 08 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Advice for a First Timer Reply with quote

PhilR wrote:
I just need to find the best route to achieving this whilst also taking advantage of using the 50cc to gain some experience on local roads.
Any advice would be appreciated.


I'm firmly of the opinion that unless age restricted, you should not ride a 50cc on the roads. They're dangerous because of others impatience, especially anywhere over 20-30mph.

Go do a CBT (you'll need it anyway) and buy a cheap 125 if you really want to pootle around on one. They hold the value well, and maintenance for resale shouldn't be an issue if you've restored a bike.
Do your Theory and DAS.
Enjoy your Bantam.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 08 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBT is just the first lesson.

A DL196 form to validate provisional entitlement is NOT a licence... you still require L-Plates the idea of which is to go learn.. not spend howver long pigging about pretending to be a learner dodging the tests.

CBT is a heavy day, 8 hours of training, it tries to cover most of what you need know, but only just enough to get you going sop you might go learn on L's. No more!

Book a CBT-Course, its cheaper if you have a bike of your own you can use, but often not much.... and if you are going to be doing first lesson and likely to crunch the thing, the extra £30-40 or so to book a course that includes bike hire can be a real boon, before the little niggle of how do you get bike you have no entitlement to ride to the school to do CBT... or back if they dont give you a DL196..... getting insurance on a bike you dont have licence entitlement for is also pretty awkward.....

Ie a LOT easier to just cough up the £140 or so and go do CBT on school bike....
1/ see if you actually LIKE it... many dont!
2/ Find out if you can complete the course... and in a day.... many more dont!
3/ Get the DL196 in your pocket.... decide what to do NEXT.

THIS is all you need worry about, here and now. Other than asking CBT school what the dress code may be, and what the lunch arrangements are!!!

Get daily comute out of your head!!!!!

Especially straight off CBT!!! Like I said its jkust the first leson, NOT a licence. Daily commute tends to be the most hazard strewn crash trap time and place to go ride, IF you can possibly avoid it, DO SO! Licence or no effin licence!

Remember L-Plates is to LEARN to pass tests, not dodge'em! On CBT and L's, go learn, go practice what you learn, pick your time and place to ride and DONT dive in the deep end of the commute, IF you like your legs! Practice round the houses, trundle out onto industrial estates, at quieter times, head to the hills on a sunny-dunday, get some miles under your belt, where there aren't the hazards of steering wheel gnashing idiots trying to get to work, after being moaned at by the missus not to forget the precise ingredients she needs for fancy dinner, and predicting the idiot boss moaning about whatever he wants done he could easily have done himself in half the time he spent moaning, etc etc etc IE NOT looking out for Learner's on Motorbikes... they probably aren't even paying much attension to other cars and YOU will just be pushing your luck!

But, DL196 in your pocket... hopefully... options are open... you MAY iof you wish get a 125, slap L-Plates on it and forget about the tests for a couple of years... you might even survive the daily commute without too many incidents of road-rash of broken bones.... but not ideal... and L-For-Learner.. wont get you a licence.

As a precursor to doing a course.... well, you cant do full A by DAS until you are 24... that's three years off, and at least two repeat CBT's... why wast your time and money, to NOT get a licence when you could?

125's is not kiddie bikes, they are often as fast as anything else is legally allowed to go ion this country, and even the least inspirational of them can break a lot of speed limits.... actually they are perversely probably the more 'serious' motorcycles on the roads for all they are ridiculed, so many used as every-day commuters, cranking up high average annual miles, whilst the 'big-bikes' so often sit in the garage as sunny-day 'toys' and often see no more than a few hundred miles twixt MOT's.....

A-N-D they DO make very sensible daily commuters. Dont expect them to be anywhere near as 'cheap' as the MPG figures in the books suggest though. Maintenance costs on bikes catch many by surprise, and little ones tend to demand little and often. 70-100mpg does look good though.... but as newbie you will likely tend to the lower potential, as you wont ride economically, and beyond that, you will probably rag the thing every where frustrated how slow they seem.... which tends to blunt economy incentive a bit, but it is still there, if not as large as so many hope or presume.

Maintenance costs can be kept reasonable not picking a more 'posey' and mechanically convoluted example, covered in fairings or chrome, more still by DIYing much of the work, as its not that hard or demanding.

They need oil changes frequently, as in around every 1000miles, but they only take half a litre or so a go, so needn't be neglected, its just time and effort. Much of the rest is the same, and begs a little time quite often, but not necesserily very much money.

By comparison, big bike may not need its oil changed for 5ooo miles, but when it does, it'll need a full 4litre can.. and of the good stuff. Tyres are another example; a decent pair of tyres on a 125, might cost £100, but will probabaly outlast the bike! As in maybe 20-30,000 miles! On a big bike, they'll probably cost more like £200, but you'll likely scrub them out in under 5oo miles... and now big bikes start to get expensive.....

And if ALL you want to do is commute across town? Is it really worth the money, to do it on a bigger bike that often does little for you but massage your ego to NOT do it on a cheaper tiddler... loose licence faster or crash-quicker being more enthusiastic with the throttle, AND begs a chunk load of cash up front to do a course to get the licence?

Your call... but no one makes you ride a motorbike, no-one makes you ride to work, no one says you HAVE to ride a big-bike.... or pay big bike running costs for it.

125's greatest asset is that IF you do go that route, you DO NOT have to wally-about on one pretending to be a learner for ever and a day.. there Is a 125 only licence, you can test for it at any age over 17, and NEVER have to do another CBT...... its also pretty much as cheap to self book and self take an A1-125 only test as it is to do a repeat CBT course..... and after, costs can be kept reasonably in check.

IF you plan on commuting on a 125, for costs, then MY recommend is you get one to go LEARN, not go to work.

Do your learning on your own time; which is a case not so much of learning what to do, as the bike, road or other traffic punishing you, with real actual pain as well as added costs, when you get it wrong.... and leaving you to work out what that was and try not do it again!

Which does hint at the merits of upfront courses, but still.... going it alone on a 125 can be cheap...er.

No lessons beyond CBT requires, and WHEN you think you have it sussed enough to tackle the daily commute, you are probably ready to take tests... which as said cost about the same as a repeat CBT course... and if you want to continue riding have to be paid at some point....

Go do the theory/hazard. Its a bit of a lottery, but your young, its just like x-box, you'll probably ace it.

Then you need that to book a Mod 1, which is just the CBT cone exercises under the scrutiny of man with a clipboard for a personality.... last check it was only £15 cheaper than a lesson, go do, take your chances... get it wrong, he tells you what to do right 'next time', its a cheap lesson, if nowt else!

AND darn site cheaper failing tests on your own 125 for that sort of money plus petrol, than expensive DAS tests on a hired school bike at £150 a pop!

Pass? Go book Mod 2, the on-road round the houses test. Its only £75 why not, finish the job? Nails down your A1 licence if you pass, you never have to do another CBT, and IF and I say IF, you want to go on for higher licences, you have been through the grinder once, you know what to expect, you SHOULDN'T have to cough up SO much for training after, you have already done the tests AND passed them, and they are the exact same tests for A2 and RWYL 'A', just on a bigger bike.... so lessons should only be needed to get your eye back in and get the feel of bigger bike before tests, not teach you over to suck eggs....

SO! A1-125 only licence... can pay for itself. Once done no more repeat CBTs to continue pretending to be a learner. If higher licences wanted... its YOUR MONEY.... bigger bikes tend to mean bigger bills, and not an awful lot more for your money..... but, if you want bigger bike lixcence, the small cost of doing A1 can go a long way to keeping costs of A2 or RWYL'A' down.... as said, tends to get rather expensive faling tests when you are paying £150+ a pop to rent bike, and have an instructor folloow you in order to fullfil legal requirement of 'supervision' to let you ride one on 'L's to test.

If you have money to burn, then skipping tiddlers and going straight to big-bikes can be done via DAS. As said, tends to beg big upfront cost for a course, and you are on the pinch-point, old enough to do A2 for a 45bhp limited licence, but not old enough to test for a RWYL'A' and the accelerated access allowed to A2 hiolders to do an RWYL'A' a fter 2 years, would likely be redundant as you'd be old enough to do RWYL'A' directly by the time that came up anyway..... Still... like I said, if you have the money, its your call.

Doing a course, has a lot of merit! Not least some-one who should know what they are talking about will TEACH you how to do stuff right, right at the start.... rather than having to figure it out from the school of hard knocks...... and pain... lots and lots of pain!

Plenty of A2 complaint bikes about, or bikes that can reasonably easily be made A2 complaint with a washer up their chuff.

And 45bhp is nowt to be sniffed at. As said, a 125 aught go pretty much as fast as any other bike is legally allowed in this country.... bigger bikes just break speed-limits more easily... not always a good thing... and tend to be heavier to pick up when they fall over.... and cost more to maintain..... perversely they MAY depending on what you pick, be a tad cheaper to insure, if more expensive to tax.

On that score, for illustration, my 750 costs me about £90 a year to insure.... gives you an idea how ancient both I and bike are! Similar value 125, actually costs me about £120, for the same level of cover, under same consitions, so about 25-30% MORE to insure the 125... which isn't a lot in my case. The £90 a year road tax, compared to £18 for the 125, is similarly small potatoes, in the all up scheme of things, and only with my penny premiums does it start to even the score on the all in overheads.

But, factor in the maintenance... and on my bikes that's only kept in limits by both being pure 'toys' not having to work for a living, and only doing leisure miles... and with more miles comes more wear and tear, and more maintenance, and on the bigger bikes, more tyres, increasingly quickly and costs get very big, very quick!

You may want a bike cos car insurance is high... BUT... insurance is only ONE of the many costs and if you haven't got the love and enthusiasm for bikes to begin with, trying to find ecconomy with one could be a fools errand.... FI you just dont use it cos of the discomfiorty of being in cold and wet and mucki, or you give up cos of the pain and hasle of balencing on a knife edge of two tiny patches of rubber.... THEN an unused bike, can be a very very expensive way NOT to get to work, however big its engine.....

SO! Go book and do a CBT, see how you get on.... dont try building a bridge before you have the river to cross!

Of course IF you take to it.... then costs could go out the window and in flurry of enthusiasm, a DAS course will be the only thing woirth doing, and you'lll be ruing licence regs that wonly let you get the Ride-What-You-Like version for another two or three years... but what the heck, till then you'll suffer as much as you can have, and or 'cheat' and try riding an unrestricted bandit or something else that breaches licence regs you can blag through the paper work.... BUT that's your call.....

And till then, it ALL hinges on doing a CBT course....

For which you need, a packed lunch, warm sensible cloths, a good nights sleep, and an open minds, and eff-all-else.

DONT try turning corners till you get to them, ride THIS bit of road your on here an now... and for now all you need worry about is getting to the garden gate.. no further!

As post-script, also worth mentioning do your sums VERY carefully. It would have been over £25oo to put my teen age daughter on the old Honda Civic's insurance policy. Quotes for a Honda 125 in her name, on CBT came in at around the £600 mark.... UNTIL we checked the small print, and checked the "+commuting" box to let her ride it to college every day.. then it often doubled.... probably still cheaper than a car, BUT, all in, ass the costs of a course, ass the costs of getting togged up by way of wet-weathers and crash helmet and stuff, and the locks needed to stop bike being ehweled away from the college bike sheds, AND factor in £100 of 125 over £500 worth of chitty-old Honda Civic, and the balence sheet may NOT be as bleak as you think.... and if you have to suffer them high costs of perdonalised motorized transport, a bike you get cold and wet and cant cart your mates about in, oir do the weekly shopping, or impress a bloke in an interview with mentioning on your CV, may NOT be as economical as you think, and as said, you could easily end up hating.... and aluded my bikes are toys... if I HAD to ride them rather than just WANTED to ride them, then I would really resent even the small money they cost me.....
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 08 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Pre CBT future planning... Reply with quote

redwarfie wrote:
My commute itself would be roughly 7 miles each way, along a fairly easy, flat A road, so no massive difficulties that I can think of there!

I may also be able to "borrow" a 125cc that my dad has, whilst this would be a scooter and I would ultimately want to ride a geared bike, I cannot really afford to buy a bike as well as everything else on top (running costs would be covered by the current price I pay for my train/bus to work).

Is it a busy A Road? If not (or if there's a cycle lane) maybe get a bicycle? I'm not being facetious much, I used to cycle into work 7 miles each way along a flat canal. It was good fun. I got a motorbike when my commute changed to a slightly shorter but hilly journey, and more importantly I had the disposable income to comfortably pay for it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 08 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Advice for a First Timer Reply with quote

PhilR wrote:
Am I correct in thinking that if I wanted to, I could ride up to a 50cc bike without a CBT but with L plates via the grandfather scheme (does this still exist)?

Better, you don't need L plates on a moped (for various definitions of moped). I assume you got your car license before 2001.

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-cbt/car-driving-licence


PhilR wrote:
Then anything up to 125cc would require a CBT and L plates?

Yes.


PhilR wrote:
I do have access to a 50cc bike and I wonder if I could gain some riding experience for a month or two before looking at doing the next stage.

You can, but I'd expect to not see much, if anything, back from the insurance policy costs.


PhilR wrote:
just need to find the best route to achieving this whilst also taking advantage of using the 50cc to gain some experience on local roads.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Do a CBT. I'd do that before getting on the 50cc. Don't assume it'll be one day and done, and cost up subsequent days/half days if you need them.

If you enjoy it, book your motorcycle theory test and ask about prices for doing training leading up to a DAS test. Even though you only need an A2 licence, there's no point in getting one. Getting full A will cost the same, and the training and test bikes will be much the same (or identical) anyway.

I'd only get insured on the 50cc if you have cash to splurge and reaaaally want to get some road experience. It'll help a bit, but you'll find that the big training/test bike rides very differently.

It's all good though. As long as you're enjoying the process, you're winning - don't let the Teflon-Mikes of the world suck the joy out of it. They're really not worth worrying about.
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eifion
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 20 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Pre CBT future planning... Reply with quote

redwarfie wrote:

My commute itself would be roughly 7 miles each way, along a fairly easy, flat A road, so no massive difficulties that I can think of there!


Just as a counterpoint to Teff, I spent 2 years commuting on my L-plated SR125 between doing my CBT and test and didn't die from it, not even once. My commute at the time was 8 miles along a flat-ish A road with one roundabout to negotiate, so with a short simple route it's a perfectly reasonable way forwards

Just depends whether you want to do CBT, ride a 125 for 2 years then do full A when you turn 24, or do your A2 now and upgrade to full A in two years - or as and when the desire and funds permit. A2 bikes have plenty of power for normal everyday utilitarian riding.
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