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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzer Thou wrote:
And yes,dropping the forks through the yokes by a few millimetres did make a difference Dance!

I did this before by accident, took the forks out without noticing how they were setup before Embarassed The difference was I had more steering lock (probably the wrong term but whatever), and the forks were bottoming out over bad bumps. I went to a dealer with a tape measure to see where they should be.

I can see how dropping the forks would stiffen up the front end, but isn't that a bit of a bodge?
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I can see how dropping the forks would stiffen up the front end, but isn't that a bit of a bodge?


It doesn't stiffen it up, it sharpens up the steering by adjusting the trail/rake. The suspension still has the same amount of travel/return.
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think I've had a bike and not adjusted the suspension where possible. Even adjusted some supposedly non adjustable stuff with spacers, oil etc. IMO bikes are set up as standard as a big compromise to be generally ok at most things. Not my scene.
Some of the bikes I've had and adjusted-

Best ever- TZ250 v twin GP bike. Ohlins shock, revalved yamaha forks. Set up quite soft for the roads but could be adjusted in 2 minutes to suit a fast flat track. Had settings for each track and wet settings, quality.

Best roadbike standard suspension - K7 GSXR750. Quality shock and forks with high and low speed damping. Adjusted it to suit me almost perfectly.

Most adjustable road bike - Ducati 999. when I got this it was like riding a barge, slow steering, running wide. Adjusted rear ride height to maximum, set fork angle to 'race' setting with eccentric headstock adjustment, dropped forks 15mm, re adjusted sag. Had to increase compression and rebound on the front and increase rebound,decrease compression on the rear, turned it into a scalpel.

Its all there to play with and is part of the fun for me to make it better.

OGR.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheMadRatter wrote:
M.C wrote:
I can see how dropping the forks would stiffen up the front end, but isn't that a bit of a bodge?


It doesn't stiffen it up, it sharpens up the steering by adjusting the trail/rake. The suspension still has the same amount of travel/return.

So why were my forks bottoming out and then not when returned to normal?
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Qyburn
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 19:20 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

SV650 has really soft front suspension. I run 8.5N/mm linear springs, YSS emulators and 46 cSt hydraulic oil. Oil weight was trial and error, spring weight by recommendation.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheMadRatter wrote:
M.C wrote:
I can see how dropping the forks would stiffen up the front end, but isn't that a bit of a bodge?


It doesn't stiffen it up, it sharpens up the steering by adjusting the trail/rake. The suspension still has the same amount of travel/return.


As well as sharpening initial turn, it does stiffen the front because it changes the weight bias and effectively adds load to the spring.

Measure the sag before and after adjusting the fork protrusion and it will have changed slightly.


EDIT: Yes I tit around with suspension because it keeps me occupied and it amazes me how much difference a few clicks here / there, springs/oil weights can change things.
I think it was Stinkwheel who said something about he spends 20% of the value of the bike on its suspension. At the time I thought that was a lot, after all manufacturers do a lot of R&D right. But I get it now. Especially for those of us who are not of average Japanese rider build Laughing

One thing I found, the guides are fantastic, but after finding a base setting through measuring. It took lots of riding and tweaking before it felt right.
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Snod Blatter
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 20:18 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have put new springs and YSS valves into the forks of the TRX which made them a lot less saggy and showed up the rear as being rubbish so I had a play. Set the preload to the amount of sag people say it should be (way more preload than I would normally put on, to be honest) and then set the compression and rebound to standard. Then quickly dialled them both up quite a bit because the shock is so worn.. More compression damping, less rebound, I like quicker rebound on a road bike to keep the tyres pressed into the ground. A lot of what people recommend is for the track and doesn't translate to road use at all well. The springs in the front are also far too hard, dang..
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brains_t
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. DaveJPS wrote:
Meef wrote:
Got my suspension done by Brian Nicholson at BN Race Science because a friend recommended it.


Where is he based, cause I've got his stickers on my forks but couldn't find anything about them online. I've since had them adjusted for my weight/style at a trackday which was a great improvement.


https://briannicholson.wordpress.com/
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
So why were my forks bottoming out and then not when returned to normal?


I'll assume for the same reason mine did when I lowered my clamps too far; The bottom clamp hit the brace.
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeon wrote:
As well as sharpening initial turn, it does stiffen the front because it changes the weight bias and effectively adds load to the spring.

Measure the sag before and after adjusting the fork protrusion and it will have changed slightly.


I'll go with that but we're talking grams of difference in weight distribution. The preload on the springs would be negligible.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I think some suspension units you could play around with forever and never get things handling nicely. Even some modern fully adjustable units I suspect just don't have the quality, or something like that.


There is an interesting article about modifying the FZ1 and several other bikes suspension in the latest 'Performance Bike' magazine Thumbs Up

I found that when I installed an Ohlins shock on the R1 it too caused the front to become unbalanced.As I had installed straight rate Ohlins springs to the front of the Exup I chose them once again for the front of the R1,together with 5w Ohlins fork oil.It transformed the bike and made it easier to fine tune both ends Dance!

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture483.jpg~original

Ps. The gunk that drained from the forks was thinner than water Confused

I found that it was worth flushing out the old oil before measuring the new stuff.No need to contaminate fresh stuff Thumbs Up

In many workshop manuals an air gap measurement is quoted.In order to measure this as accurately as possible I cut a piece of tube to the specified length and attached it to a hand wash pump

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture486.jpg~original

Works perfectly Thumbs Up Very Happy Thumbs Up
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B0ndy
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set mine to stock and leave it there on both my ZX6R and GSXR, able to get my knee down on both bikes with stock suspension - no worries about handling.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B0ndy wrote:
Set mine to stock and leave it there on both my ZX6R and GSXR, able to get my knee down on both bikes with stock suspension - no worries about handling.


Knee-down antics aren't the best measure of suspension settings. What really stood out for me when I upgraded to better suspension was that I could change line quicker, even as far as switching more quickly in S bends, one side to the other, without upsetting the composure of the bike.

Although if you can hold your knee down in a long, bumpy sweeper without things getting out of hand, I guess that would be a sign that things can't be too bad.

The other thing I noticed with the K-Tech modded forks was how they handled bumps, fast and slow; small, high frequency bumps and larger ones, equally well. It takes quite a nasty pothole to unsettle the bike now, and even then, it'll more likely just throw it off line a bit rather than have it pogoing around - it'll settle again virtually instantly. On standard suspension, I was always a bit wary of bumps in the middle of bends upsetting things; now I really don't have to worry about it Very Happy
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I was always a bit wary of bumps in the middle of bends upsetting things; now I really don't have to worry about it Very Happy

But you can't blame the suspension when you end up in a hedgerow.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
I was always a bit wary of bumps in the middle of bends upsetting things; now I really don't have to worry about it Very Happy

But you can't blame the suspension when you end up in a hedgerow.


You wouldn't let it lie, would you? Rolling Eyes Laughing It was due to me being an numpty (the 2nd hedge encounter, anyway Shifty) and not paying attention, nothing to do with suspension. Would you like me to put words to that effect in my sig? Would that be enough for you? Thought not...

Look, I have "Hedgetrimmer" written at the bottom of my number plate, and had to change my Fazer forum name to that, ok? Let's just leave it at that.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now now I was speaking hypothetically Whistle
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B Button
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 19:30 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delboy's garage did a short look at suspension adjustment a while ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJZhezaG9o Conclusion - for most folks, most bikes, after you have done all the measurements, factored in usage issues, you will probably find yourself back at the factory setup.
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
B0ndy wrote:
Set mine to stock and leave it there on both my ZX6R and GSXR, able to get my knee down on both bikes with stock suspension - no worries about handling.


Knee-down antics aren't the best measure of suspension settings. What really stood out for me when I upgraded to better suspension was that I could change line quicker, even as far as switching more quickly in S bends, one side to the other, without upsetting the composure of the bike.

Although if you can hold your knee down in a long, bumpy sweeper without things getting out of hand, I guess that would be a sign that things can't be too bad.

The other thing I noticed with the K-Tech modded forks was how they handled bumps, fast and slow; small, high frequency bumps and larger ones, equally well. It takes quite a nasty pothole to unsettle the bike now, and even then, it'll more likely just throw it off line a bit rather than have it pogoing around - it'll settle again virtually instantly. On standard suspension, I was always a bit wary of bumps in the middle of bends upsetting things; now I really don't have to worry about it Very Happy


I found I noticed what my suspension was doing far less after I’d had mine set up. Riding the same road afterwards felt smoother and the bike didn’t dive the same under braking, neither did the bike squat the same under power.
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