Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Electric motor

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:28 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
M.C wrote:
And yet there are plenty of products on the market claiming to test and give info' on the battery health.


The (typically) hold a log of the last few charge/discharge cycles, and compare that to a curve pre-set into the unit. Pretty trivial stuff for even basic microprocessors. It still takes time, and the cheaper the processor and associated RAM and storage, the less data points it will sample.


So, charge/discharge measurement, yes, plenty of them, but as you say, that takes time, over a controlled scenario. Hardly convenient.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:16 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question remains:
Rogerborg wrote:
How exactly would you test the remaining real world range of a used electromobile?

I mean, imagine you're actually on the way to buy one (nobody laugh). Not on the internets, IRL.

Who's going to help you out? Even for monies?

Teh AA wrote:
https://www.theaa.com/vehicle-inspections/about.html#tabview=tab1

What doesn't the vehicle inspections cover

✓ vehicle electrics and electronics (requiring the use of specific diagnostic equipment)

What types of vehicle don't we inspect?

✓ hybrid/dual-fuel vehicles
✓ motorcycles

____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:32 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if/when PCP deals come in, the seller has to work out a guaranteed value for 2 or 3 years down the line. Is that correct?

If the EV vehicle protagonists are correct, in 3 years time there could be radically different and better EV's so what happens to todays generation. How can they ever be future valued.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:56 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
How can they ever be future valued.

Guesstimation.

BMW's headline figure reckons 47% after 3 years for the electroscootay, but that's highly deceptive.

That's what they'll charge you if you want to keep it. But in reality, on that 10% APR mug's deal, you'll already have paid them 72% of the new price by then.

So in reality, they're only happy to gamble on it being worth 28% of the new price after 3 years.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike


Last edited by Rogerborg on 21:47 - 14 Jan 2018; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ThatDippyTwat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:15 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
So, charge/discharge measurement, yes, plenty of them, but as you say, that takes time, over a controlled scenario. Hardly convenient.


I'm not disagreeing with you. It was more information for MC so he can have a more informed opinion. Marketing will say anything to flog units, just look at precipitation friend.

You can't just slap a meter on a Lithium cell of any description and get any decent idea of it's "health".
____________________
'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:55 - 23 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this sounds promising ..

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2018/january/battery-range-extended-electric-motorcycle/

From the university itself

https://uwaterloo.ca/news/news/battery-research-could-triple-range-electric-vehicles

Based on essentially the simple manufacturing method, production ready batteries should be available in a relatively short period of time, and might well tip the balance far more favourably in favour of electric motorbikes, and other electric vehicles.
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:34 - 23 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this secret sauce more credible than any of the others that have never made it out of the lab over the past few decades?

Because it's the most recent? They all were, at the point of announcement.

Cheap, mass market electrics vehicles are always just one more breakthrough away.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:50 - 23 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Cheap, mass market electrics vehicles are always just one more breakthrough away.


There are now a fair few reasonably priced electric vehicles around, and the prices will continue to fall overall as popularity grows, and the technology itself improves and becomes cheaper.

The method in this research from the University of Waterloo, if it works is pretty simple, the signs look realtively promising.

Lets face it, in the developed world, at least, the ice is on it's way out ..
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:45 - 23 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
There are now a fair few reasonably priced electric vehicles around

We've just been over this. Bike are either £10K+ (subsidised), or have little more than electric pedal cycle performance, or are vapourware. What happened to Yamaha's PES/PED bikes?


linuxyeti wrote:
and the prices will continue to fall overall as popularity grows, and the technology itself improves and becomes cheaper.

The technology pre-dates ICE, and increased demand for limited resources does what to costs?


linuxyeti wrote:
The method in this research from the University of Waterloo, if it works is pretty simple, the signs look realtively promising

What signs? Have you read their patent? A peer reviewed article? On the face it it, it's just yet another unsupported claim. If you believed every article of that sort, you'd be constantly traumatised by their failures to make it out of the lab.

I will have an electrobike at some point. I'd have one now if there was one that could sustain 70mph, with even a 50 mile range, and a price tag not exceeding £5K. Where is it?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Codezombie
Nova Slayer



Joined: 13 Jan 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:32 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
M.C wrote:
So they'll be no diagnostic software for these?

There might be, but why would a dealer of those bikes buy something that can only be used to cost them money?

Nobody is going to help you make your case. How would you do it?


The diagnostic software is built into the bike. You just need to make, or buy, a third party cable, (or bluetooth dongle) to access the onboard computer.
(for example : https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/diginow-data-reaper-dongle )

(Zero generally speaking won't sell you one, and while it looks like an OBDII port, its not wired up like one).
____________________
2015 Zero-SR; Yamaha Diversion 900
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:51 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Zero ..

Quite like the look of this ..

https://www.carolenash.com/insidebikes/news/zero-introduces-dsr-black-forest-electric-touring-bike/

https://www.morebikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/010zero-dsr-black-forestelektro-tourer-2018jpg.jpg
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:26 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

More manufacturers going electric ..

Cagiva

https://www.morebikes.co.uk/44356/cagiva-returns-for-2018-but-this-time-its-focusing-on-electric-motorcycles/

Royal Enfield Shocked Shocked

https://www.morebikes.co.uk/44276/royal-enfield-working-on-an-electric-motorcycle/

Honda/Yamaha joint ventures ..

https://www.morebikes.co.uk/39722/honda-yamaha-set-start-electric-motorcycle-testing/
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:26 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

tl;dr version - "Affordable, usable, unsubsidised, mass market electric motorcycles might be available from $INSERT_MARQUE in the future."

As always.

I'm not angry, I'm disappointed.

And a little angry. Clickbait, fakenews, very bad.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

WD Forte
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:35 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it time for me to get a
Loud Electrical Motors Save Lives
Tee shirt yet?
____________________
bikers smell of wee
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Codezombie
Nova Slayer



Joined: 13 Jan 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:24 - 27 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
A "touring" "dual purpose" bike which can only do a maximum of 78 miles at cruising speed before needing at least an hour, maybe 2, charging up, using hard to find "level 2" charging stations, which don't tend to be found in the middle of a forest.

No mention of weight, so I'm going to have a stab in the dark at over 200KG's.

So it does neither of the tasks it was designed to do, but looks good. I'm not grabbed yet.


With charge tank I'd say around 200kg is about right, the power tank version is 204kg, and I think the charger option is slightly lighter.
____________________
2015 Zero-SR; Yamaha Diversion 900
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:21 - 27 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

<£10k
>100 mile range @70mph
>90mph top speed

Those are the specs I'm waiting for. Going to be another 5~10 years I'd imagine.

(BTW - where _are_ all of the secondhand Zeros?)
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:16 - 27 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

As ever - EV's are probably a relatively small market for the holy grail of lighter higher energy density batteries.
I wouldn't be surprised if people in the UK averaged 10 devices that already use lithium rechargeable batteries - phones, toys, cameras, laptops and so on.

"Amazing new batteries" are always around the corner and have been for a good while.
So far we've had minor incremental changes.
It seems unlikely in reality there will be a revolution any time too soon.

If anything; there may be more a fight to try and work around limits of resources.

Motor technology hasn't massively moved along - as with Apple products ten years ago - it's more the marketing that has evolved and moved along.

Better fuel cells are an interesting option - but alas a lot less development than more traditional battery forms.

If you fancied DIY - I'm sure you could easily achieve that goto10.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:13 - 27 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

goto10 wrote:
BTW - where _are_ all of the secondhand Zeros?

First question: where are all the new ones?

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=zero

Oh dear. Oh deary me. And yet they get so much press.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:39 - 27 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
skatefreak wrote:
May as well get a few old laptop batteries and whack a motor on my pedal bike and take the scenic route through the countryside Rolling Eyes...

G thread.

But yes, I agree. Effectively immunity from laws, park where you like, what's not to like?


The bit where it catches fire?
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:46 - 28 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
The bit where it catches fire?

"Heated seat".
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:29 - 28 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where electric bike nerds are wanting electric motor vehicles to go?

The tech is there for stuff that'll blitz the city commute with a 50mph speed, acceleration that'll probably shame a CB500 and a 50mile range. This is all available and now, but the price is more than CB500 money.

The small electric scooters, peds and lightweight off road or street bikes are the clean tax exempt USP of electric motor bikes.

I fail massively to see the reasoning for why people want an electric Fireblade or FJR or Adventure bike, as most people with these bikes don't use them daily, and can easily afford the running costs incurred. While there's fuel for sale in the pumps, there's no reason to consider anything other than ICE bikes in these categories and for leisure use and touring.

I guess there's always the people that want to try and use the wrong tool for the job just for the challenge or because of bloody mindedness.

Electric city bikes and mopeds will wipe out ICE machines in cities when they get a bit cheaper, but theres no logic or reason for a TT zero bike for the road and unlikely to ever be IMO.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:56 - 29 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I'm not sure where electric bike nerds are wanting electric motor vehicles to go?

....


That's easy, to entirely replace and improve upon ice powered bikes. As you've rightly said, town/city centre riding can pretty much already be replaced, the longer commute, in my case 120 mile round trip at motorway speeds, just not quite fully there yet, it is however, very close.

As for touring, I found an article somewhere the other day, about a german who covered almost 700 miles in 24 hours on a Zero, even I rarely do more than 500 miles in a single day ..

Yes, they're more expensive upfront, however, if used as a main form of transport, that additional cost should be largely offset by the savings in fuel costs/servicing, especially if the ice powered bike is serviced by a garage.

I do agree with you at the moment, as far as weekend warriors go, it's probably not cost effective, yet.

Once the charging infrastructure has improved, which it is doing slowly but surely, both public, and at the work place ..

If I could charge my bike up at work, I'd have an electric bike already.
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:26 - 29 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The monster torque (yes, G, torque) of electric motors does actually make a pure performance bike an interesting prospect as a toy. I mean, how far does a typical Sunday hero ride anyway?

And at the budget end, I agree that there's already enough there that you could just about make do.

It's that CB500 / SV650 zone in the middle that's just not happening despite the years of Electro Jam Tomorrow promises.

[UPDATE]
And as if by magic (like how magnets work), Yamaha announce yet another "concept".

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2018/march/yamaha-ty-electric-trials-bike/

Nice reminder that it's 5 years since they announced the imminent production of their PES/PED mass market electrobikes.

Maybe they're just so quiet and stealthy that they went into production and nobody noticed?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:47 - 29 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

[triggered]

There's been kids electric trials bikes for ages.

And it makes loads of sense - near 0 'fuel' usage when not moving and low usage when moving slowly. That 'monster torque' from low RPM is just where you need it - low RPM, as opposed to a performance bike which needs that torque at higher rpm ya'know, the P word Razz.
And typically you don't go far away from your base at all - you can always have a spare battery stored there if you do get low.

In the end for other applications - batteries are still expensive with low energy density compared to ICE energy storage.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 1 day ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.14 Sec - Server Load: 0.16 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 145.41 Kb