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Shark Spartan lid, SHARP test

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F1.ash
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Shark Spartan lid, SHARP test Reply with quote

When I bought this at the beginning of last year it hadn't been tested but I thought it probably wouldn't be that much of issue, surely it wasn't going to be a poor performer at ~300 at the time. I bought on comfort and fit rather than anything else.

Well, in December last year it got tested and it was perfectly fine in all but two test areas.

https://i.imgur.com/kDRWYc8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uJWx3XI.jpg

So now my dilemma is do I buy something else or live with it. I would after all probably have been looking to buy a 5 star rated lid given the the choice. My sensible head says change it. This may have been a dumb question but thought I'd see what popular opinion is.

Opinions/thoughts gratefully received Thumbs Up


Last edited by F1.ash on 12:04 - 12 Feb 2018; edited 1 time in total
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do these tests actually take into account the fit of each helmet they test (i suspect not), as in, would a lower rated, but better fitting helmet protect your noggin better or worse than a higher rated, but ill fitting helmet where the helmet may move around on your head, or your head move from side to side on impact for example

Personally, i would rather have a well fitting comfortable helmet with a reasonable safety rating, than just going for outright safety rating
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grr666
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a Spartan Carbon, and a Speed R. I'll happily wear either without any worries.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lid which fits you the best will give you the best protection.

The safety ratings take no account of how lids fit you so whilst a lid can have a 5 star rating in the SHARP tests, if how it fits you was taken into account then it might only get a 1 star rating.
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F1.ash
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:
Do these tests actually take into account the fit of each helmet they test (i suspect not), as in, would a lower rated, but better fitting helmet protect your noggin better or worse than a higher rated, but ill fitting helmet where the helmet may move around on your head, or your head move from side to side on impact for example

Personally, i would rather have a well fitting comfortable helmet with a reasonable safety rating, than just going for outright safety rating

That's a fair point. There are cheaper helmets with better ratings but you could probably be certain that they won't be as comfortable.

I personally would have still prioritized fit but would have considered the SHARP test result in parallel.

In reality I could be over thinking this but I was disappointed to see such a low result all the same.
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F1.ash
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The lid which fits you the best will give you the best protection.

The safety ratings take no account of how lids fit you so whilst a lid can have a 5 star rating in the SHARP tests, if how it fits you was taken into account then it might only get a 1 star rating.

Agreed on that and SHARP say as much themselves.
https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/get-the-right-fit/
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a common pattern in mid-high end lids. I recall some hand-waving and not-fair sniffling about racehelmet, and side impacts being (ostensibly) rare in that environment. But the Spartan touts itself as a touring lid, so doesn't even have that weak-sauce excuse.

The other way of looking at it is lids that score 5* are likely to be Spaceballs sized XXL shells with loads more padding inside them.

FWIW, I've just bought a LS2 flippy fronty with a similar spazz-pattern on it. I reckon I'll just had to take a full frontal facial if I come off.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My LS2 FF352 Full face fits me and is rated 4 star by Sharp, cost me fifty quid.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/hjc-fg-st/

Mine's not too shabby and fits a charm. but like everyone says - each to their own
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Dalemac
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who found the visor mechanism on the Spartan/Skawl absolutely bollocks?

I went through 4 visors in little over a year before sending the whole thing back. The 'C' bits just kept snapping off.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalemac wrote:
Am I the only one who found the visor mechanism on the Spartan/Skawl absolutely bollocks?


Aye, I think last year alone I and Paddy created endless posts regarding how the helmet is nothing but a shelf ornament or, if you're fancy, a plant pot for the garden because dem lights deter foxes, yo (no I've no idea what I'm going on about either).



Dalemac wrote:
before sending the whole thing back.


You can do that? I am jealous.

Saying that I only ended up with a Skwal because I returned a HJC helmet and took an exchange so I had something to use (of which didn't last long; guess what helmet I went back to -- eyeroll).

Last visit to J&S couple of weeks ago they had a batch of -- unexpected -- Shark Skwal 2's.. not that I care enough to see what's changed. Interesting to see an updated version of a helmet so soon.
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Dalemac
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
Dalemac wrote:
Am I the only one who found the visor mechanism on the Spartan/Skawl absolutely bollocks?


Aye, I think last year alone I and Paddy created endless posts regarding how the helmet is nothing but a shelf ornament or, if you're fancy, a plant pot for the garden because dem lights deter foxes, yo (no I've no idea what I'm going on about either).



Dalemac wrote:
before sending the whole thing back.


You can do that? I am jealous.

Saying that I only ended up with a Skwal because I returned a HJC helmet and took an exchange so I had something to use (of which didn't last long; guess what helmet I went back to -- eyeroll).

Last visit to J&S couple of weeks ago they had a batch of -- unexpected -- Shark Skwal 2's.. not that I care enough to see what's changed. Interesting to see an updated version of a helmet so soon.


Well, it's got a 5 year warranty. I had to keep pushing on them to get it replaced though - stating it wasn;t fit for purpose and lining up all visors showing the same fault.

I replaced mine with a Nolan n87, which is an order of mangitute better than the Shark was.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_cat/2559

Brighter LEDs and a revised (replaced) visor mechanism. Apparently.
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Dalemac
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_cat/2559

Brighter LEDs and a revised (replaced) visor mechanism. Apparently.


https://www.thevisorshop.com/en/au/Shark-Max-Vision-Visor--VZ160--Skwal-D-Skawl--Skwal-2--Spartan/m-18193.aspx

The visor looks identical to the orignal Skwal (VZ160). I wouldn't touch that visor/mechanism again with a barge pole! Laughing
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalemac wrote:
grr666 wrote:
https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_cat/2559

Brighter LEDs and a revised (replaced) visor mechanism. Apparently.


https://www.thevisorshop.com/en/au/Shark-Max-Vision-Visor--VZ160--Skwal-D-Skawl--Skwal-2--Spartan/m-18193.aspx

The visor looks identical to the orignal Skwal (VZ160). I wouldn't touch that visor/mechanism again with a barge pole! Laughing


Assuming the fucking horrific broken clips, bad design issue. Exactly why I won't buy another Shark. They completely refused to replace it and even stated they had no other returns based on that, despite the shop sending 4 at the same time. Laughing
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Dalemac
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:


Assuming the fucking horrific broken clips, bad design issue. Exactly why I won't buy another Shark. They completely refused to replace it and even stated they had no other returns based on that, despite the shop sending 4 at the same time. Laughing


Then they're compulsive liars! Rolling Eyes

Yep, clips snapping off through everyday use.

It's a shitty design and it just doesn't work. The combination of design, and the plastic used just isn't good enough to be able to cope with the pressues of being raised and lowered repeatedly.

I wouldn't recommend the Spartan or Skwal to anyone.

They should have just used the mechanism from the RSF2. Never had any issues with that visor at all. Simply pop the button in and the visor comes off. Simple, quick, and robust.

Likewise I won't be buying from Shark again because of this.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until the sharp tests came along, Arai were regarded as the best built, safest lids on the market. They disagree with the methodology of the sharp tests, and claim that an ear region impact is next to impossible due to the riders shoulders. The impact is more likely to be above the ear on the crown.

They've said this for years, but the Sharp people take no notice. It sounds logical to me, so personally I'd forget about the sharp tests and live with my lid.

It's still possible to die wearing the safest lid in the world, and it's still possible for a 30 quid Aldi open face to save you in an accident.

I use Sharp to help me make a decision, not to make the decision for me and I certainly wouldn't be getting rid of a 300 quid lid on the basis of their arguably flawed tests.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
claim that an ear region impact is next to impossible due to the riders shoulders.

Sliding down a track. Road furniture or Mavis Micra may disagree.

Unless manufacturers are deliberately reducing protection higher up in order to increase it over the temples (why? how?), it seems like a spurious argument anyway. More protection is more protection, right?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Unless manufacturers are deliberately reducing protection higher up in order to increase it over the temples (why? how?), it seems like a spurious argument anyway. More protection is more protection, right?


One assumes that Arai with 50 years of experience of road and race helmet design would know more than a bunch of government YTS types knocking together a safety database for minimal London weighting civil servant salary...?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet they can't manage 5* in a simple, repeatable, well defined test . How about that.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
And yet they can't manage 5* in a simple, repeatable, well defined test . How about that.

They must think really highly of the sharp tests. Razz

Why are sharp tests measuring acceleration? It's the deceleration followed by the rebound which causes the injuries. Yes the greater the acceleration potentially means more deceleration but the deceleration is the all important part of what a crash helmet does.

Confused
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your helmet decapitated you at the point of impact, your head wouldn't experience much deceleration.

BrainPal® ?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
And yet they can't manage 5* in a simple, repeatable, well defined test . How about that.


Because they disagree on the veracity of the test... Simple innit?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Because they disagree on the veracity of the test... Simple innit?

Yes, that's certainly what they say. Talk being cheap, and belief being freely given. Praying
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many high end helmets are designed to perform well using the American SNELL testing, this has high velocity, high impacts. To do well using SNELL, helmets are very strong in order to resist impacts.

However current thinking and research in Europe is that helmets need to be less 'stiff' and to absorb impacts rather than resist such that rapid brain deceleration is minimised.

IMO the SHARP testing regime is well thought out, science based and very good.
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