|
Author |
Message |
Jaybone |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Jaybone L Plate Warrior
Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Karma :
|
Posted: 18:31 - 22 Feb 2018 Post subject: Whats going on on the 600 seen or lack of it?? |
|
|
Afternoon peeps,
You've probabley been asked this question thousands of times now by new and more experienced riders(cough old gits ) but what is going on with the 600 sports bike scene?? I've recently passed my DAS and now being able too purchase any bike I see fit, there seems to be a shortage of new 600's and a shedload of expensive secondhand 600's.
Now my dilemma is do I shell out for the expense of the 600 which when checking the insurance (these kind people cough w*nkers cough seem to be on the ball) doesn't seem to be a lot cheaper than going for a 750 or a 1000.
I know what peoples vues are on new riders getting big bikes but I'm not inexperienced to riding and I'm fully aware there is only 1 D*ick who controls the throttle.
But what do I do??
Cheers for listening |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
grr666 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
grr666 Super Spammer
Joined: 16 Jun 2014 Karma :
|
Posted: 20:58 - 22 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
I bought a 650 twin after passing DAS, it was okay but not all that thrilling. I'm too old for hunched over a sportbike
so when I decided to change the 650 I got an upright naked 850 triple instead (which weighs less than the 650 it replaced)
which is much more um.... engaging. Like a jet powered BMX. ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Enduro Numpty |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Enduro Numpty Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 31 Oct 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:00 - 22 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Try Covonia for the cough.
As you're already a riding god, I also suggest a Fireblade |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 22:47 - 22 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Once upon a time, bikes came in five capacities; The three 'racing' capacities were 250 'lightweight', 350 'junior' and 500 'senior' anything less than a 250 was a tiddler, anything over 500 a side-car hauler. For the most part, bikes were singles; they were cheaper to build, lighter on the track, and easier on fuel and maintenance. And then came the 650's....
In the post WWII consumer boom, US market demanded ever bigger-better-faster-more, and the Brit-Twin, was stretched from 350/500 to 650 to meet the demand.
As UK roads got tarmaced, we saw the rise of the ton-up-lads, who could buy a 650 on tick. So what they didn't handle like a Velocette 'sporting-single', the new roads were wider, flatter and longer than any race track, and the 650's were 'fast'.... although even in my youth, contrary to opinion, not soooooo long ago, folk still grumbled that anything bigger was only fit to haul a chariot, and you may as well buy a car!
But that attitude saw the UK motorcycle market shrink, as the Japanese offered ever bigger-better-faster-more techno-marvels.... and sold shed loads of 'tiddlers'... licence laws encouraged.
By 1980, the hi-po two-strokes that has seen 250 'learner-bikes' challenge the old guard 650 Brit-Twins for performance. To stay ahead in the game, the 350's had become 400's, the 500's 550's, and in 1986, Kawasaki badges its new water-cooled GPz600 a 600, to mark the difference between the air-cooled 550 'fours' and the 650 'twins'. They co-incidentally launched the GPz900R, creating the 600 and litre classes that have become familiar.
Meanwhile... racing regulations were written around the bikes sold to fold for the road; racing inspired new road bikes, and so the circle perpetuated hardening the 'new' 600 and liter classes.....
Until recently.....
What has 'happened' to the 'six-'undreds'?
Well, around 1997, Kawasaki launched an all new 600 'sports' designed to win 600 class production racing; the ZX6-R. AFAIK it was the first 600 class road bike to claim 100bhp, previously the preserve of full liter machines..... a-n-d the decline set in.
The techno-race of the 80's was over. The defacto-standard was a water-cooled 'four' with double-over-head-cams, in a box-section frame, covered in body-work. In the cash-cow US markey, 'factory-customs', over-the-counter harley-esque 'cruisers' outsold sports bike by an enormous margin; in continental Europe, 'Paris-Dakar' replica dirt bikes, similarly outsold everything else, and the 'race-replica' was becoming ever more irrelevant.
Y2K emmisions controls, along with the gold-seam of easily mined technology, and economic pressure on Japan to stop exploiting subsidized manufacturing investment to keep product-prices artificially low in export markets, saw a departure from bigger-better-faster-more marketing.
People weren't buying bigger-better-faster-more motorcycles any-more; they were buying more reasonably priced and more road-usable 'all-rounders' like Bandits and Diversions....
Emission regs hard-hitting the year-on-year power increases of strict-displacement classes, and demand for those machines to be a lot more 'rounded' and road feindly. 500 'commuter-twins' grew, gradually from 500cc to 650, and the 600 'super-sports' followed suit...
So endeth the era of the 'six 'undred'.
THAT is what happened to them. The artificial capacity 'class' just evolved into irrelevance.
In 1980, a 'good' Brit-Twin may have offered 60-65bhp. 25 years on, and that curiously is STILL about the sort of power you might get from something like an SV650 or ER6.. just in a very much more 'civilized' homogenized shrink-wrapped TV dinner package.... it's still more than enough power to break the still the same UK speed limits with inordinate ease... how much is 'enough'?
What do you Do?
You have the 'Ride-What-You-Like-Licence'.. you ride what you like!!!! Everything is 'restricted' to 70mph in this country by GATSO cameras... so what do you 'want'?
IF I wanted a razor edges, full on, no compromises 'sports' bike, these days, I would pick a last of the line, unrestricted 125, like a Mito or Aprillia!!! They only have 30bhp or so, its enough to just about achieve a genuine 100mph, but demand a lot of work from the rider to get it, so very rewarding when you do! (if actually getting there without shooting following traffic with piston-ring shrapnell, isn't enough!)
On the public roads, just about anything with more and bigger holes where fire happens, will just make achieving those sort of speeds a heck of a lot easier, and hence less rewarding, less 'fun', to my mind.
I ride a 750... a very old 750, its a pretty universal all-round motorcycle... and thanks to the 600 vs liter class-controversy actually cheaper to insure than either! There's little real correlation between capacity and performance these days, anyway; there are 600's that make more power than many liter-plus machines; performance depends more on their intended application or the style that looks best in the brochure; so its a very 'useful' machine, I can ride all day, and two-up without getting clouted around the crash-hat by a scrunched-up pillion bunny, OR have a 'bit' of more spirited fun on the lanes on a summer's evening.. if I don't get frustrated by sports-bike riders squidding between corners, believing that how much thier arms hurt from hanging on during warp-speed acceleration and rubber wall breaking, between bends is indication of how much of a riding ace they are!
So, you have a RTWYL-Licence... ride what you like..... takes-your-pick and pays your-money! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Nobby the Bastard |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Howling Terror |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Howling Terror Super Spammer
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Karma :
|
Posted: 23:33 - 22 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Latest 1000s are too fast for the kids these days.
The latest bikes put out more power than the bike Rossi won his first MotoGP World Championship.
Plus kids are softer now. Why go out in the rain when you can stay in and shoot aliens.
Only us mature riders have the skills and discipline.
^^^There are truths in there.
Weird thing with the decline in sportsbikes is that this moment is the very best time..It's the pinnacle right now for the internal combustion engine before electric bikes start moving in with their whiny motors...powerful and clean they may be but like steam engines of the past these living dinosaurs are a marvel of mashing cogs and spinning bits of metal all run by explosions.
Nothing will beat the sound of 600s in the distance getting it's arse teared to shreds by yobbos.
Sportsbikes are dying because those that aspired to own one are dying.
We're dying of cool...Like Steve McQueen..Like Lawrence of Arabia, Marlon Brando, Hunter S Thompson, Clint Eastwood, Joey Dunlop, Barry Sheene.
We're dying and nobody will ever be as cool as we are/were.
____________________ Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Tdibs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Tdibs Traffic Copper
Joined: 16 Jan 2015 Karma :
|
Posted: 23:40 - 22 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
If you have your full license just buy what you want ____________________ Previous : 09 Vanvan 125| 02' Sv650s || Current: 1999 Xj600n | 1992 DR650 RSE | 2005 Fazer 1000 |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
Posted: 09:17 - 23 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Howling Terror wrote: | Latest 1000s are too fast for the kids these days.
The latest bikes put out more power than the bike Rossi won his first MotoGP World Championship.
Plus kids are softer now. Why go out in the rain when you can stay in and shoot aliens.
Only us mature riders have the skills and discipline.
^^^There are truths in there.
Weird thing with the decline in sportsbikes is that this moment is the very best time..It's the pinnacle right now for the internal combustion engine before electric bikes start moving in with their whiny motors...powerful and clean they may be but like steam engines of the past these living dinosaurs are a marvel of mashing cogs and spinning bits of metal all run by explosions.
Nothing will beat the sound of 600s in the distance getting it's arse teared to shreds by yobbos.
Sportsbikes are dying because those that aspired to own one are dying.
We're dying of cool...Like Steve McQueen..Like Lawrence of Arabia, Marlon Brando, Hunter S Thompson, Clint Eastwood, Joey Dunlop, Barry Sheene.
We're dying and nobody will ever be as cool as we are/were.
|
Incredibly eloquently put Mr. Terror. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Pjay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Pjay World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Jan 2016 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 11:41 - 23 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Pjay wrote: | Who really wants a new race replica 600 that's never entered a race, let alone won anything? |
When Honda launched the CBR900RR in '93, that's pretty much what folk said about it; Who'll buy a bored out 750 that's not eligible for 750-class racing, and down on power to the litre-plus class bikes?
Similar argument was leveled at the 650-Brit-Twins, that were too big for the then current 500 'blue-ribbon' race class. Folk still bought them; then after buying them, they had to invent a class for those that wanted to race them!
It's a diverting double-ended Llama, really.
Of note, though the earliest 'Race-Replicas' were bikes like the Norton Manx or 'International', of the 1930's; models strategically claimed to be a 'replica' of the works race-bike of the last season, sold over-the-counter to any-one in the street with cash, who 'might' go race one.
The modern 'Race-Replica', probably traces it's ancestry back to Suzuki's '84 GSXR750, claimed then to be a road-going replica of their endurance racer, and the same era Yamaha RD500 & Suzuki's RG500 'GP-Replicas'.
Rather ironic to my mind that the GSXR was launched as the 'ultimate' Cafe-Racer.. at the end of an era when folk had bought over-the-counter road bikes; slapped rear-sets and clip-ons on them, and maybe a token fly-screen fairing to make them look like a 'racer'..... then when they got something done for them, by the factory, what did they do? Strip off the fairings, slap on high Renthal MX bars, to make it like a road-bike again, and called it a street-fighter!?!?!? There's nowt-queer-as-folk! As they say!!!
The cult of the Gixxer, though, probably shows how as the shear performance excess of over-the-counter production models grew, so the relevance of the 'racer-for-the-road' wayned. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Kentol750 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Kentol750 World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 May 2016 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Howling Terror |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Howling Terror Super Spammer
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
GSTEEL32 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
GSTEEL32 Traffic Copper
Joined: 24 Feb 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 00:30 - 24 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
M.C wrote: |
I'd happy throw my leg over a S1000RR or whatever uber superbike straight line heroes are riding these days. A 500cc 2-stroke I'd pass on.
|
Which leads us neatly back to:
Howling Terror wrote: | Only us mature riders have the skills and discipline. |
____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 13:18 - 24 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
M.C wrote: |
I'm willing to hedge my bets on that one |
Your record has got stuck.
Oh, wait. Only us mature people know what a record is
Edit: Did I just call myself mature? Oh, that's a hoot! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
Posted: 17:22 - 24 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
As long as the audience responds it'll keep on playing
For my generation it would be your CD is skipping.
For the next something about buffering? |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
AshWebster |
This post is not being displayed .
|
AshWebster Brolly Dolly
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
qarka |
This post is not being displayed .
|
qarka Spanner Monkey
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
RhynoCZ |
This post is not being displayed .
|
RhynoCZ Super Spammer
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 19:45 - 31 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Pjay wrote: | The 600 class in racing is dead, ergo there is no racing to further the 600's profile or tech.
Who really wants a new race replica 600 that's never entered a race, let alone won anything?
Nobody. |
Well to be honest, the whole motorcycle racing scene got crap in the past few years. Especially the WSBK isn't as popular as it was in the 90's and early 2000's and that was the ultimate ''buy a bike'' ad there ever was. Watch lads racing on Tv/track on sunday, go buy the ''same'' motorcycle on monday. That was the golden era + the regulations were much less strict. Nowadays, I can't even tell the last time I saw a WSBK race on Tv, or track (Brno, CZE). ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
stevo as b4 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 21 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
|
|
|