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Royal Enfield Bullet 612cc project

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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ain't surprised the clutch slips if that pressed out bit of tin is the pressure plate. It doesn't even look flat in the pics.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I ain't surprised the clutch slips if that pressed out bit of tin is the pressure plate. It doesn't even look flat in the pics.


If you like that, you'll love the plain plates. Two are dished so you can fit in an extra friction and plain plate in a basket that was originally designed for three of each.

The small end plate with the springs under it was an attempt to bring the original design up to date by means of a cam-operated push-rod through the gearbox mainshaft.

Prior to that, they had a thing called a "scissor clutch" made of cast steel which bolts on top of the plate stack with a stationary and a rotating part and built in cam to disengage them. They are notoriously bad for overheating and crabbing if kept pulled in for any length of time and shit their central bearing with monotonous regularity. They don't slip as badly, presumably because the springs are round the outside.

I have one. I'm not using it!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4z5HGdBsow5PHO8r09FGrEVKcrjuBiVWGl6pQd0F6G3ndG_1n3cfL3rK30QjB0opasb4t2uLOArUebNNZtUPeURjEDWIkRX_uREvWuMLZpn-AYKwgvv8nNiXveDriC_b4t97OBCkfQ=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to suggest a mod perhaps that would allow you to run an extra friction plate. The four plate clutch would have 33% more grab than a 3-plate because of how clutches work. The spring pressure isn't divided between the number of all the plates - they all see the same load so if you apply the same pressure to a clutch with 4/3 plates you get 4/3 more clutching capacity. Adding a fifth will give you a further 25% over a 4-plate.

I think that you're right about the spring location but it's as much a matter of the flexibility of the plate and the tendency of a pressed plate to be dished no matter what, unless it's machined flat.

If you have a couple of old baskets I would be willing to attempt to cut one up and use the bits to extend the other - perhaps with the addition of a band - if you like. It would make an interesting project.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:

If you have a couple of old baskets I would be willing to attempt to cut one up and use the bits to extend the other - perhaps with the addition of a band - if you like. It would make an interesting project.


Thanks for that offer.

I'll see what can be done with it for the time being. I think there is a fair degree of fettling that can/could be done to the standard one (including making sure the slipper plates are actually flat, many of them are far from it.).

What about the effect of more springs? Will that make it less likely to slip? (seems logical it would but...) Obviously that will make the clutch action heavier but I'm also planning on using a much more effective lever than standard with a modern, offset pivot, wide platform and span adjustment (probably an old GPZ500 one, they work well and have bushed pivots etc). If I do the mod to move the springs out, I could also very easily fit an additional 3 or 6 springs in the standard position near the centre too.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you can add pre-load with washers or spacers bit you have to take care not to coil bind the springs. Heavier springs could help too. The only other consideration is that whatever the mechanism that pushes the clutch pushrod is fixed to is man enough to cope with the extra spring load.
____________________
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
The only other consideration is that whatever the mechanism that pushes the clutch pushrod is fixed to is man enough to cope with the extra spring load.


Fortunately, that has already been beefed up. I got lucky with my ebay gearbox. It came with close ratio gearset and sealed bearings already fitted as well as an end-cover mod to prevent it flexing when the clutch is pulled.

I'm just thinking that whatever I do with this, if it's not man enough for the 612, it can always go on the 350 which has an utterly standard one fitted just now.

I'm also going to see about getting some ceramic bearings for the clutch push-rod. The newer ones have the push-rod in three pieces with a ball bearing between them where it passes through the mainshaft to try to stop it heating up and binding. I've had the one on the 350 do this a couple of times and it occurred to me that a ceramic ball bearing would be a poorer conductor of heat.

They also do an end section of the pushrod (#18 on that exploded diagram) with a small thrust bearing built in which should make things smoother still.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thrust bearing would be fine but easier would be to set a standard deep groove ball bearing in the pressure plate for the pushrod to bear against. Using silver steel for a pushrod with the ends hardened and ground would also make them less likely to weld to the ball bearing sandwiched between them.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Using silver steel for a pushrod with the ends hardened and ground would also make them less likely to weld to the ball bearing sandwiched between them.


Already on it, got the steel bought and ready because the standard stuff looked really crappy and not particularly straight.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's to stop you utilising the stiffer cast steel cover and employing the superior pushrod-actuated release? Seems like the best of both worlds.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 02 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
What's to stop you utilising the stiffer cast steel cover and employing the superior pushrod-actuated release? Seems like the best of both worlds.


Good idea. I'll have a look at it to see if it's feasable. I can't remember what it looks like on the underside.

Looking at the exploded diagram, it could be a go-er. Looks like the centre is machined to take a thrust bearing too. I'll check the springs against the new ones too, I'd rather not be using 60 year old springs.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 03 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having popped that scissor clutch apart, it's pretty rough and more than a little wonky. Could well be more trouble than it's worth. However, the modern, heavy duty springs would fit without becoming coil bound. I compreswsed one of each in a vice and measured the compressed length and they are within 0.2mm of each other.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SUJKTNUgXdf6rMjmHvGYoCG-6OUq9ufVxdz7fFRbxzmPMDvR4WBOFyOnFf3Y6w-wTkNK1sCr4FedMwNx2S2o0nhOndNVxQ9aN3AFHxjsz7-Clw4p7nxjRLI7cJT2Y7eJZlu_ocf6yw=w1176-h882-no

Anyway, aim for this weekend is to have the chassis sitting on two wheels, then I can fit the engine when it's ready and move the chassis around the shed. I was getting worried the frame paintworkwas going to get damaged sitting about the place.

The fork internals came up nicely after their soak in vinegar. There's not really a proper workshop manual (there is but there are so many small variations between years it gets redundant). Theree is however, a good series of exploded diagrams.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8O8X7n2bp7W8Olg5LgtHY623CfUW1n_EsWOFQmDszK1LQFGDoMbZz05taaectTaGhKinWNyDqd1RDHp3NKY9RP_POvVetLsbV2fM3Q8dJKHH61HAaLpIQNgmBXcPeQIIKaWFTrARHg=w1176-h882-no

The spring is a recent addition to increase the damping effect.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m9KhOiAiTXhbwlkTOarN5qt8DeMU2qlF423z_4hQPAowr3lNPI_qxBUPgp4TJ5pcMtIfxaKMLgRWDF35MxAVZ6sTNkn2rlDEiPP0wQL7SgP_gRPIHWpunX0tZDhW5emCWD-tFVJ0bg=w1176-h882-no

So there aren't any fork bushes, there are two oil seals seperated by a spacer. They rarely leak. I used a little red rubber grease to help ease them in.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UOfKnLQC_KpfyOvrsp5AWVfcEECVGGJkKE5l1mJq72-vhYnmIhTGUEnZZJFXl4pN-S353t09KtHFsKDweD6ifUl0qjCju6vgxChTMOHA1PTBXVjTsk_4PuTGgsSTPK4vcIKJ8uYcYQ=w1176-h882-no

Then you slide the lower onto the stanchion with the damper rod and spring now in place. A bit of heavy duty plastic sheet helps protect the seals from damage but you do need to use only one layer and oil it liberally on both sides to stand a chance of sliding it out once the seals are over the stanchion.

It's also a good idea to check the threaded end of the damper rod fits back through the end of the fork leg before assembling everything. I've had trouble with this before and nearly launched the fecking thing across the yard

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ikgMPA05k16OA82HTU86IqVu_yezWhC_SVGD-jVi9FsNHBFmXQVVr7tpbb-yYimnMLRo4TbO6ysWQUJOvAsIGcW3A7XBa8d9-X0orAWxuZaYEzWLw7bq6S_cXosuj2dAKh0Bn9LFxg=w1176-h882-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YQFKon3kU8wHhP2a9a_jI26ie03s0ben63jS-UGeFrtxJwMERBWVxmtC_PsB82d8tZQlYIqdkiK6N7nPAiUtG6xYZNocjmxxztiPLp4cPISefrNjOPZHlPpLWPiCUhA-njDikfdGfg=w662-h882-no

Also got the replacement dust seal and the correct spacer piece fot he rear hub.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CFe0jyfZRGChoh3fIHLzknhEo_j8MX_bUzG3J27gyXcQl6DYXNrqcB8_o-FbmCTe1_3PnKfOT4KHfo1lu-BnJU4NJKZzOylnuSE9MrZSmZqZfLFfgfrnTL-p_xQ9zP-WN4uev4vy2w=w1176-h882-no

And an un-butchered rear brake pivot pin, thereby completing the rear hub/brake assembly. I'll probably be rebuilding both wheels at some point so I'm not concerned with cosmetics for now.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zLCxAg_l0AgZkXBc6s3hhCWWGtVq0e7u-VCCFj-aEQns-he0GTHXXbEKbxIv4QGnvBi2NoHjLUaxkoY5njjKqagLTBiVCcnaxJpvYavOn5UsVENBRCeTSs3cdleTzfWYzsY4Ywa_WA=w1176-h882-no

The forks slide up through the bottom yoke then screw into the casquette.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7jY74cfKlIki1E2P_M4yv8KeT6bnBoYkv7fjWNqKx5J-1B_mAeVLee5SYUg75OACFJdOcjZWGJ8r5rq7T4O0mBPcsprVQ0p8VQX8YRy-j2CVaUB7oEVVNeG3a_bhdI7RIaAUOOqjvQ=w662-h882-no

Front wheel just clamps onto the front of the fork lowers, one clamp either side. The spindle is part of the hub rather than being threaded through after. I suspect this is at least in part why the oil seals last so well without bushings, there is no side-loading on them caused by pulling the fork legs together slightly as you do up the wheel spindle like you get with japanese bikes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Vc9vTSljKSGFQMD48Z5EKdBGvMQfm1AObTuPBfDTc3syeB1PG0-lDrBKVBxHdOhzjxbg4ViDkSFlvRD458F8fWa_fJEAPz_7XSuF34zyN4O66yyu_sqIS6EuND6QdWAa9E8IxflI6Q=w1176-h882-no

Need to order a pair of long M8 bolts for the bottom yoke pinch.

I also need to decide if I want this to have shrouded forks or gaiters. Still not sure.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wBvKXC_sz9qgwfZsgHOQHc8ehdlQ8G6ufrvi5aK9RRUHBIYlvI_LAr9RmYp5bqasEfECSEHw1xnU3USa9iwS847blbk0NrXhzQh1tf5NwUVAf7rg7dmn4z3cwPbFWcHHS6J1njMNXA=w1176-h882-no

Sat on two wheels. I ordered some 1950 replice handlebars which are slightly lower about 40mm longer than standard. I may be thankful for the leverage.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7QWXbJybr2XolbSCp81h6y692cQXRSOrL4Gx1sambXkx8wiaLBniPLtHXcGZdPWRyD5GiceNJ0a4babWMADtZ8K0ZXRE3ZvNvJjM0e8MhDeOTPY0ySWwz7qS89_67h1hazLKYHgYEg=w1176-h882-no

That lets me try out the controls. First hacksaw the brake lever mount off this C90 indicator switch.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aH_5hpshcMR_fss7rXfVsYTlGuAqNLCnkt-v9AgicAr_BbH-yYILQ1Rje8RwP4tZgYa1gwQOD_w-gryuy8amu4zLsu6lFfgC0EDNR6qJOy_G5SMhkOvVJCfwIBRa-jsKvcj_Lt1ufw=w1176-h882-no

Yes, I quite like this. It'll need a remote reservoir fitting too for the brembo master cylinder. It would look neater if I used the C90 twist grip rather than the amal one. I'll try one on but I suspect it won't have sufficient movement to fully open the throttle on my huge amal concentric.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AckJ9TWMWyGbp21u9sne1o7E3Flt2VEOZVnVFIDWktAkjD0LbeNidEFBlXBINNPbrRXWAgqkj_eabsBEAFoZEb_S-0eZNwMO06WdZV4N1CoIKd1xykGLCAmHXlBLn6sZLpEKoVXg-A=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 04 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, geting into actual proper engineering now. I need to work out the compression ratio of this engine. and to do that I need measurements.

These bikes come at an uninspiring 6.5:1 out of the factory. A generally accepted reasonable safe target seems to be 8.5:1. Some people run 9:1 but you pretty much have to use super unleaded at that.

Bore and stroke I have from the manufacturer at 103 x 87mm.

So this piston is pretty lumpy. This cocks up the maths which is much easier with a flat-top piston. In the absence of a data sheet, I need to measure the volume that domed area takes up.

I do that by setting the piston to a known height below the top of the barrel. In this case, zero because that's easy to do with a straight edge and the cutaways on this piston crown are so extreme, it'll work with zero. With less extreme cutaways, the crown might need to be marginally below the "deck" to allow fluid to circulate.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jzc_4aZ8Ddq1glDH8XSnOScovN688-3sk4TeB9CvUyiKIlhdTIcutd5fv6-DjCqlkRTG7gxSUwbJiyfR_XV0Edy9C11vJBj_A9T_qeJHS1oRDcjfoSpSkAhQeumnJVKQf0Yei7I-9Q=w1180-h885-no

Perspex sheet to cover the top of the combustion chamber. I haven't actually bolted it on, just the weight of those studs in the holes to stop it moving about. A light smear of grease round the edge of the barrel to form a seal.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4CUPTZP8c4ItimpCP8aQrs3vssZ44-HHIWETmqTdI2MorPbPyk-0YT-L_OWyjVJYeCNonYGob5OwpiHQfMKbMuEwZ8UWZcqhQIM58YH-ZFrsZSJPJ_TobGnwuer6TSphPoN3mxe_Eg=w1180-h885-no

Just like being back at school. A burette full of ATF on the basis that it's thin, wont damage my acrylic burette (coloured alcohol is commonly used but would shatter my burette) and won't upset any of the componants. Permission gained from the wife to do this on the kitchen table.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vELxiDrylvfiEI5ew7NVS6QuMain0NRzg4GpZtbLaI8ir0m3M-DorZJaW1-JOc4qPGbPoWiY-1QHJfx7iU8ZCCqFWLO5lehY5Str33f1M16D0gqLeWpSlVp3UsZ51--29XD7ZL_RtQ=w664-h885-no

Then slowly fill the space under the perspex until all the air bubbles have gone. I had to twiddle it around a bit to get the air bubbles all up to the hole. Remember to slow down to drop at a time for the last little bit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hGJOCQyq-QHlwJ08qMb4RNKBUMXUUJnWxuoETbFvKDGJUmo3ujUjkiJP1uDlMlxJaIPZaas3ssijsbFaHt4JpGvjtSlJ9O6aoFEXSAXskqiY1GVrARAE1f7dJR4SWTn6WItnWI2H9A=w1180-h885-no

I now know the volume of liquid that fits above the piston (34.3ml). I measured the height of the piston crown (14.34mm). I know the bore diameter (87mm). So I can calculate the volume above the piston baseline (first changing mm to cm to avoid tying myself in knots) as 85.23ml. Subtract the volume of fluid that fits above it and I have a dome volume of 50.93cc.


Need a sparkplug to do the same with the cylinder head, I'd ordered the wrong one.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.


Last edited by stinkwheel on 15:38 - 03 Apr 2018; edited 2 times in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 04 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget to allow for the thickness of the gasket.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 04 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Don't forget to allow for the thickness of the gasket.


Will do. Just struggling to find any details about the compressed thickness. Or am I worrying too much about tiny details there? It's a copper/fibre sandwich.

Same goes for the paper base gasket.

If I use a compression plate, I presume I'll need a gasket each side of it? I could potentially even land up using two compression plates so I presume I'd need crankcase-> gasket-> plate-> gasket-> plate->gasket-> barrel. Or will alloy compression plates get a good enough seal with a smear of goo so just a paper gasket on top of the crankcases?

Paper gasket is 0.50mm uncompressed but I'm not sure if I'll need to knock that down for compressed measurement?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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garth
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 05 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

C90 throttle tubes have a large rotation, I would've thought you'd be fine with one.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 06 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onwards and err, onwards. Hodge-podge of jobs last night.

I fitted the caps on the oil pumps. Note two gaskets on the feed pump to make it easier to bypass if it goes over-pressure. Ther will be a seperate pressure relief valve on the scavenge side.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DAuV85-jy46nr8jYY8OwslnVb4RKOmsk9X9JH6jsdbLwRJjlWYeaKgv3GwXnCQsfuX6OnqFkRu0jX5XaaJntiUFK2EsOKgDffl4CyuRZmgDatL7nT_wCBDpatrMXhOn0Ew56yt2xLg=w1176-h882-no

Short video of the pump turning with thumb pressure only. This is important, one thing that will kill one of these engines are stripped pump spindle splines.


I also test fitted the front brake calliper which I got off ebay along with the front wheel. It quickly became apparent this is not, in fact, an enfield disc brake conversion. The calliper and master cylinder look to be off a BMW K75. The front hub looks like it might be off a moto Guzzi of some sort. Both have been modified to fit the enfield and they fit well. Someone put a lot of work in to make the calliper bracket the correct size and thickness to centre the opposed pistons.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e0vrvx0Ap0YnzDpeJfIZacb4MR5JXw1lfFIFWLPAQVYED7vLz4exm7V5QX2AjyJtu2iuzFCnB8kzhB5LXBqc4jUx6kBsqkyacD0uWV8MgL0dSICBHUMLGNuGmxFefVwcUozoSBPwQA=w1176-h882-no

They have also modified the hub to take a bolt-in enfield wheel spindle and speedo drive.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QwjZACV9ymJ3pQZc_c4fVHMqxIMpBKT13Ltjb3MH-NbwyXOfQZvONaLbTemwSw9BYOXKQMjNxG1Sl1S48hRO40bW6etrQmvgt04fL5gP9n-uXQKzEgDlITWJWstEI4zDlGD7NR7ouQ=w1176-h882-no

There is always a spanner in the works though. The top lug on the fork leg is usually used to attach the front brake cable anchor. Ignoring the fact it's not in the middle of the lug (that's how they come, you should see some of the drum brake linings), the thread had long since gone south and the hole slightly ovalled. It may have been deliberate. Some people like to allow the anchor to pivot and drill the threads out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cRjgtH6jl445InXCrTezr9d2rOoSQNgLjWjEFS5LRxt8MftCG8tgxsxP6KLlL6WzYWxdVPlIXJ5dhMAZ1HPy4iMzU73VmirWbPpkSjdTpm8soqTuS6JjFPTNvzBlBSC2MwjuBSRJcQ=w662-h882-no

In any case, this will make my caliper anchor bolt loose so I'm going to helicoil it. I have the kit anyway.

Drill hole out first:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7w87HXR0iNg4_B2h5mw6xuh8reY4EHta0kpNeTcicztcB4H1DdStnv_aGROcxyNF6HEQqnV6Q7wo87tK3NQFjZng26VBJMp4_mgxmk5nHpEFSes77Gv-f4NhBS8C8uCkEorjQzB_Qg=w662-h882-no

Tap with oversize tap.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yS07xSS-OegGgdrMHDZmANXiAGNXZ_7dJ1g3CRV1EIo76ZGbVhwk2IdB7cdXzFZZWD0RgQnjTJPazObE13cfSPYLGUnX_nWyrxAAY48EtIA2RkELSl27CMz-kR1tvQpkshuLy_lKHQ=w1176-h882-no

Screw in insert. I've put thread lock on it too for belt and braces.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YClnmh9GJZbP1_Mf7xuoyidvO5BaxVevmk3I47cR4Wj4wHySfm96EZBjRXLKLG0KZ3K6jo8-VsX2dITg7doaKp00QdqHV_L621_gkNApQe9nX4cKKsjULpak8WX3DdYh5o7quGXzpA=w1176-h882-no

Remove the tang with the magnetic punch:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gibzL57cz3AnktIVglgVyFHYD-MkMnmYY_z1LmknNsWgZKGJD7Tdg1zPBoPOAHwmed70z3XPsLDUIB1wJXxHpatlxd91JmigN2htrRjtwb9FQhZJZ5S_C1Dqr-etJvmJ3UXSR_QLlg=w1176-h882-no

Now has a central M8 hole ready for a bolt.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h39vGSC4I5iKjQMwKEKGnyNnZ9Bwov8psRToGqkBGbXv2N_in_rS00X0hbrluflB-dZ1U-lrRDDZ1dNzBKwLK_nMbQamNUMJaXhfEoIWvV2tm-ENoq-uamcDcglL7SLoVo-DW3a7vg=w662-h882-no

Which lined up perfectly with the caliper bracket.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zUAE12OPWyYr9q1O3EbqWvSIo6CJdGHDXdJ6lIDmV06uS_DYYbjTOb9Id7pll0sEIzSvfqQ3sLq_lnHR6RUx2m5QJh1fpX-yQdkoVd4XSerpjtP1GwHpMR-xrjt8P6UG8PRlZ4cZsg=w662-h882-no

I'm not happy using even grade 8,8 bolts in this application so I've ordered some high tensile ones. The disc bolts look iffy too, seen a lot of use by the wear on the hex. They also have spring washers under them, which I think is both odd and most likely incorrect (preventing them going far enough into the disc) so I'll replace them with some threadlocked high tensile button-heads.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.


Last edited by stinkwheel on 22:18 - 06 Mar 2018; edited 2 times in total
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 06 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also got the crankcases back from the engineers. Instead of burring away the main bearing seat casting to allow clearance for my pointy cam, he's pressed out the cam spindle, centred it on his boring bar and undercut the alloy to the requisite clearance. Much neater and structurally sound job than is usually recommended. I've seen some where a whole section of the seal lip was unsupported.

Here's the suggested way of doing it:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/s6l3GzgUzY13uQjTsSIM5CxS1ZCBalQ5ITKfs_rM2kblsecfe9mRCt6gtSslk9ioWEqi0gFc4hwpECw5v1bHIfvQXHcHF2ZrTVsaGbwiBDNsKiPR5Oz8ILCRXuOubLi6l3MQOmksHw=w585-h456-no

Here's what I have:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W7g2amNiPWiizwlQdvm8LPiBqwC2Cs1kaaMSYg-UtYNkq1xf2A_kpY0rygXAlsRcE4JOKZ9CW3cC8ydn4qnQyUN_A-2qDUZb-CiOmt25tCkY7kxRAz--D8soAKc6tau1IU4FTV2gGw=w662-h882-no

Seal still supported all round.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vz3r3gSnxZCVDVfYicTDhBRAuZKxLbwplLbDazGB79jtNBWdM8gXKEF250qdiKXYifZVOoTde5lsS50knGbz-azJ8XtGOxWjYfvYBwFNURhwYWxri607gyO4YsfJc0QF7xENjdRJlg=w1176-h882-no

One metric ballhair of clearance. The difference between backyard mechanicing and engineering.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4dgiYq822LGkWz3PFRJ5zr2fhP7lKGo1Zl9ycRqOloqLkv0UyfOgaqheRrNELChyZuqL6M0XInLX2uqG9B7tTm9jOb7mYfPxilR27XDJxDw6wRHel3OI3XVepeBnWhKATHaAHWzd5Q=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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talkToTheHat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really enjoying reading this thread.

This might be a bit late, but I thought I'd share how I get a thread cutting die to sit straight: Use a lathe or a drill press. Use the drill chuck (or lathe centre drill chuck) to get the rod absolutely square in a vice (or main chuck of the lathe). Pop the drill chuck out so you just have the polished flat face of the advance tube (I know that's not the right word, but the one I want has escaped me) and use that and *gentle* pressure to keep the die completely square. If you have a small die or a big chuck, you might be able to get away with just opening the chuck wide so the jaws retract.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

talkToTheHat wrote:
Really enjoying reading this thread.

This might be a bit late, but I thought I'd share how I get a thread cutting die to sit straight: Use a lathe or a drill press. Use the drill chuck (or lathe centre drill chuck) to get the rod absolutely square in a vice (or main chuck of the lathe). Pop the drill chuck out so you just have the polished flat face of the advance tube (I know that's not the right word, but the one I want has escaped me) and use that and *gentle* pressure to keep the die completely square. If you have a small die or a big chuck, you might be able to get away with just opening the chuck wide so the jaws retract.


Interesting and something I'll give a go when I do the gearbox studs.

Of course, if I had a lathe, studs would be a piece of piss but I hadn't thought of using my drill press in that way. Thinking about it, I could possibly even clamp the die stock to the base and turn the piece in the chuck by hand while putting pressure on the press. I've got enough steel to have an experiment.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not been sat idle but there are a lot of things away at various different places having stuff done to them.

It turns out there are two types of fork shroud with a 2mm difference in ID and no matter how much you swear at it, a 55mm fork leg simply will not fit inside a 54mm steel tube...

Stripped the front hub and I'm glad I did because the bearings slide onto the axle and butt against a "step" that does the same job as the central spacer on a conventional wheel. The outer spacers then tighten down on top of it with a nut either side. On this one, the "step" the bearing sits over on the axle is longer than the bearing is wide meaning there is no way of compressing the inner races together, the outer spacers butt against the axle and there is a good mm or so of play on the bearing on each side. Side loading will ensue. This is a manufacture issue, I've given the axle to my mate to turn a bit off it.

I also got the crankcases back temporarily. The factory finish on the inside is dog rough.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iLW2GbSV4W8MP5z9-1rDTN0bImog0aU7WI1N3tlnEVENCLAs_nEeT2_FL60iDsSI0pgwa7ZRGiph9PyIc9pP5LZJQAbtH7Qcvr81qBGfdaGOcauuABdl24kcjuDI8AIeSlXovjbOAQ=w1176-h882-no

About an hour with the air whizzer later and it's not perfect but all the high spots have been removed and the casting marks smoothed out somewhat.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MPhICQ-0NsuFn2a7dXN_VygbJp0k2d6v-3szbkqB-yNqyy7vH6KTLpy_x26PXs38J4DqdiiUvlHGY7xZIkQCOq8IUAvIxOqnBypDglEkPwfZfnnscVPvA9IA5UNlMVYu7YAioTY7pQ=w1176-h882-no

There then followed a REALLY good wash in multiple changes of paraffin, then a wash in hot, soapy water then a blow over and through with compressed air to remove any traces of swarf and bits of abrasive wheel. Now back with the engineer for the bearings in.

The bit on the fork end where the studs screw in is a weak point. I've landed up fitting inserts to all four on my other bullet over the years (they just pull out when you tighten the nuts down) so to save crawling about on my hands and knees, I've just fitted inserts now while I have them on the bench.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ApPi2mU-ieqUaeFdoYCAVD-SVJqymfJcH9sIiSXxdi7FRw3JyblohXgwenpkFKyLHIfDvyvgh_IlzpBcGtUzLC7LNK-QznYXXG4PDCPJbxtIkk23gKjNw23eSdcH5g3QbymEKrea2w=w1176-h882-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vASs_ly6cBDi0bNSJVkajtbSRfzHXcGC0GWysW2mWtve2-YGVs6blxT_SLUET1O-QnlkqhRz7AkfznREH4NczI4ascw1Vmj0ZF9Ab18R3DtnLmQZwnSp-K-LRu9OrZNqB_UGgpjeRQ=w1176-h882-no

This project is quickly approaching critical mass. A whole lot of stuff will start to happen quite quickly. It's been at the point where I can't do one bit because I'm waiting for another bit but they are nearly all lined up now.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 30 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That wheel spindle. Yeah. Instead of a removable spindle with a central spacer between the wheel bearings, the ones on an enfield are mounted on a shouldered spindle and have the spacers tightened down onto them with a big nut each side. The spindle then clamps into the forks.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SYBIPZ7KU1y-QcIfQvvbCGjKNt54elzcPHWg-YLePXwBYmM2KLrwENWebBCKCOs5vFyGlkfHG_vHCrvGLQSsVd94MmnAIYlZUNGLG7z2nxr7kqdFqHN0SpmKEXcU8vJlfyFeOr_mIA=w1176-h882-no

I noticed some play on mine. It turns out the shoulder the inner bearing races sit on was wider than the race (not by a lot) meaning when the nuts are tightened down, the spacer butts against the shoulder on the axle and not the inner race. The inner races aren't compressed leading to side loading and free play. Shonky, very shonky. Had to get them turned back a bit on a lathe so the bearings work as they should.

Anyway, back together now, complete with new speedo drive and high tensile bolts holding the disc to the wheel. I've also switched out the fork end caps for steel ones. The original alloy ones are prone to cracking.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZBxuhZlCx5A8rL6Uf0uTFerIfvxGMXc763a8M9M2BxmspwSqbmkUfgB6Dj_HW4H4E9an7t00WE8I1BGQQn5_8fxa8zqvdf9q5XcAaT6_l-AcdYsah8ns4GJK_v5ndkQ9EumGrqiGqA=w1176-h882-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u_enNoZ_Ih84hBRWtbt6ZvX1Cik40CI8Gx4OUPksOOhQn3DQ25p6TRPXNiuLUoWKGlVYlkLE5ElWj_Lw4_L1Cud1Go9u-eO0LZyB5j-r3JhYtCiapXLZvvFrEPkJIJo6_ZayhGt09g=w1176-h882-no

Also got the fork shrouds fitted. I had to take the whole fecking front end apart again (including steering stem) to get these fitted! They look smart but I was cursing them and wishing I'd just used gaiters while I was setting the headstock bearings into place again!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IW6aKJQVBqDDc9-YKK8F70o6BN21PYYKVVASzrI7oweJqego289rYu4OdWpPV29fFboqwm28bve5nSjNWGLkH3UqbqrCvtme9iUregHGt4vrgHwG3DYcSZjGj89k0w_eRTwSmLCM4w=w662-h882-no

Got the crankcases back on Thursday, new chunky, european made bearings in. One thing I'm short of though is the front engine mounting plates (getting some made up out of alloy) and the front crankcase studs bolt through them. I have steel ones but I'd rather bolt it all up once then leave it at that than start taking them in and out again. Once I get those in, I can fit the crank and measure the deck height for the compression ratio.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/37iW7hE_U-4LeAeC80MSF39v3v-CvlDKCfCgJHBW7C4kaAqukulnbVmdDsWI75ebSL3tHs2hpnMhJ_nV9M8rQgauu9-s55uCg9Jm4jSrPxOyQdy-zNgm9Yqp3amUQnxkEA3a9JMt_Q=w1176-h882-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yT5JG37TBAH18ip2iQ_qTcAKhcyD-W3fQI__uahW2ptTggByBdRiD8ua-FSibSSNbLQUlYZ4MBW1nppR3GyXwsPx-ObSUmo9bIrQbbXAw48nuS24YTVh6TjBOlBIWnJPkSfH64CJ7A=w1176-h882-no

One thing I can do is measure the head volume if I get a minute. The VFR needs its spring service though!
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cylinder head measurement. Needs a sparkplug in.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RB-b4sqmhWIuc8B21C-in97Yh6YVtQTJFwtUCDS11V1-1nYLocSNQtWDNHx8J_h-KHvJKNMTCx-x_GR5XrO9oD9KK2UUY7Sz6pnRzb-SO9Gf9Z__r_bkTp8_AfYaOZbld_OJzevSDQ=w1176-h882-no

Decompressor valve in the other side. This can be replaced with another sparkplug for a twin spark but then it would mean kicking a 612 single over TDC by brute force. I'll leave that marginal gain to the racers and keep my ankles unbroken.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kRSpwCUxCae6Xutf_lf-spcmzlZdNMrJXKbOwoFmD0bQ7ipGGwuDR_dIF5VMG2Sgta3d_9VD3JSXjRLthebbaZU8CaNRqWqsr1qpNUSq_Ly81qzd85h3sXAezEGNDLxNoLFrhwtwmQ=w1176-h882-no

Combustion chamber ready to measure.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5YB1W_JsQamomflrghI9w3hry9YN_4Lbo2CihhDinajepI9wmgKx82DFPKfon0VGqcMsQCzWYwOJ1JdiLbqx1fUPSZaD-B2u-6c7KOUJZ51tTpAuIsQUb1749RpyNtDD6QypE3N9Og=w1176-h882-no

Same setup as before. I can use the same polycarbonate sheet as I used with the barrel to measure the piston dome.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sFdF0_rMsHy9z8_FF7ujkDjYW1cmkHwrHL5NeIn5QwoTLSriaHH_74CU1WTuw7arS1s_dANlP-cbc6ZQ9Hx9svDeGFq3A-r0lZ_heD3uGiX1Eo7Um_7Di3iOyxmZ0FqjydeghUfVOw=w662-h882-no

A tiny smidge of leakage under the polycarb, should have bolted it down but it'll only be a fraction of a millilitre. There are other less certain measurements such as the degree of compression on the composite head gasket.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cc4IHTM7EIwCDXkulA0y0-9LiJFVjvG6xHbbK-hlSOAwrtYdzPcPCUk6RNKkOiDqZNlqUFnK12zYaOVJ6saAtLsEqzU7Tat7gD2KyQw5DIE_ZjfGjZd_oWp_qGLnJYK0ASBJ2FWeIw=w1176-h882-no

So Total cylinder head volume is 145.6ml.

However, the barrel spigot is recessed into the head. I need to subtract that from the head measurement because I'll be measuring deck height from the top of the spigot. It's a cylinder so normal measuring with verniers shows the spigot to be 92.0mm OD and 5.3mm deep. So 4.6cm^2 x pi x 0.53cm = 35.23ml

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DY6V2yOGK0jG129u2Xymbp_XBv97Pqb3dB7poAfHYXSWXLT0dwj10IdF8LcA7UF-Hov-Yb6QXiMA0z619R088JKK2_372aZT1So7n3sCOg5Z-PhrZ9U56rea8iuUQcHTYFX8YG6-Gw=w1176-h882-no

So corrected cylinder head head volume = 110.37ml

The measurement I'm missing for calculating compression ratio is deck height, Needs the crank in for that, need engine plates to fit the crank.

I'm not entirely certain that will go perfectly smoothly, I've seen a couple of reports of these cranks binding against the casings when fitted because the flywheels are a tight fit. Hopefully I've tidied the casings up sufficiently for it not to happen with mine.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.


Last edited by stinkwheel on 15:28 - 03 Apr 2018; edited 1 time in total
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aceofhearts
Nova Slayer



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awsome job, i used to have a 4 speed 2008 trials (one of the last carb / drum brake models and now have a 2016 Classic.

The UCE could do with some more power itself and some higher gearing, i know how tempting the hitchcocks website can be haha
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So. I've spotted a repeated mathematical error I made on calculating the volumes. I've gone back and edited the values.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Wobbling Dog
Nitrous Nuisance



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PostPosted: 16:36 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
So. I've spotted a repeated mathematical error I made on calculating the volumes. I've gone back and edited the values.


Good job you don't prescribe medicine in your day job.
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