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Another starting issue ...GPZ500

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dn38416
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 17 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Another starting issue ...GPZ500 Reply with quote

I prematurely mothballed my GPZ500 three weeks ago straight after its MOT. Was running fine. All i did was take out the battery, top up the fuel tank and change the oil and filter.

Anyway went to put the battery in, lights on but had trouble starting. Getting a high frequency clicking noise. So i went to push start it, but as i put it in first it either won't stay there (goes back to neutral), or won't move despite me having the clutch pulled fully in.

I've never been able to kick it straight up from 1 to 2 without it running. So couldn't do a push start. Any ideas? I know the bike is low value but i don't have £ to get a replacement.
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dn38416
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwiw the petcock was left in the on position for those three weeks. I'm sure i've left it standing like that for longer though, so not sure that will be an issue. The clutch is worrying me more.
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merquis00
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Another starting issue ...GPZ500 Reply with quote

dn38416 wrote:
but as i put it in first it either won't stay there (goes back to neutral), or won't move despite me having the clutch pulled fully in.


Sounds like stuck clutch plates, but the false neutral is odd Shocked
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Getting a high frequency clicking noise.


Starter relay? Chattering noise? With this cold weather, my guess is the battery has dropped below 11.5 V. I'd charge it over night, get a really good charge in it first before thinking it's anything serious. As you say, if it was running fine prior, then it's likely to be a minor issue.

Don't worry about the gear change thing either, these machines aren't meant to be bump started unfortunately.

Clutch will be fine too, but the plates can get a little sticky if left for a LONG period. I always use a cable tie to pull the clutch lever in when storing my bike over winter, Jan/Feb. Always hold the clutch lever in when starting anyway, even when in neutral.

Pet cocks are BIG problem on these cos most owners ditch the original vacuum pet cock for the cheaper alternatives. This is a major and often costly mistake. The vac tap setup on these is there for a very good reason, and I've done mine twice over the 11 years I've had the bike.

Low value bike? Who cares... it's a great wee reliable machine that can still pack a real punch when needed. Had mine for over 11 years and it's superb.
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dn38416
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both, really appreciate it. I only bring the value thing up because whenever i speak to a workshop about it the response usually includes "not worth it you might as well scrap it mate". My attitude is a bit more: "There are many like it but this one is mine".

The clicking noise is coming from the right hand side tail, so near the ingnition box and coil.

I ran the multimeter over the battery and it was only reading 11.9 - so fairly low. I'll get hold of a charger and give that a go.

It's still the original petcock so hopefully i should be in the clear. Although i intend to give the carbs a clean once i've sorted the ignition.
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The clicking noise is coming from the right hand side tail, so near the ingnition box and coil.

Is it clicking only when you press the Start button?

Quote:
I ran the multimeter over the battery and it was only reading 11.9 - so fairly low. I'll get hold of a charger and give that a go.

If you charge the battery in situ, remember to disconnect both - and +. Only takes a mo to lift out and charge on the bench anyway, just don't lose the small alloy nuts under the terminal lugs!

Quote:
It's still the original petcock

They can and do fail internally, there's a small rubber membrane inside which can wear away through use. However yours is probably okay at the moment, I'd advise as a precaution to turn it off when not in use. It's really the vac side of the tap which is quite clever, designed as a rudimentary fuel cut off system, but it can be problematic on older bikes.

Quote:
"not worth it you might as well scrap it mate"

Just so typical of today's so called service technicians, and makes me even more determined to keep mine going - 21 years old and everything is running sweet as it came out of the factory, so stick with your bike m8, take some pride in the fact you can fix it, and enjoy riding it.

Cheers.
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TheManWithThe...
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 03 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be a deadded/stuck starter motor.

The solenoid for it is in a cluster of electrical gubbinses behind the right hand cover next to the seat.

Should look like this.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Starter-Relay-Starter-Solenoid-for-Kawasaki-ER-5-ER-500-/200911122465

Either test it with your multimeter, or bridge the two connectors and see if the starter motor turns over.

If it does does, solenoid is probably dead. easy to replace.

If it doesn't, starter motor could be dead.
if it is the SM, they are actually incredibly simple to strip from the bike and rebuild...if not just a tad fiddly.

Or hit it with a hammer and see if it frees up i take no responsibility for cracked starter motors
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Tankie
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 09:21 - 04 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defo power supply problem , start at the battery,also check all the earthing points
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 04 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

11.9v at the battery is not going to start a GPZ. I had problems with mine and had 2 batteries on it the 2nd battery died from laying the bike up and not maintaining the charge state.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 14:19 - 04 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Flat battery. Solenoids can go duff too but they tend to fail entirely. When you're in and around the solenoid area thought, check the wires running into the main fuse holder for corrosion.

They have a neutral finder mechanism, you won't be able to change up into second with the bike stationary. You probably will with it rolling along.
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dn38416
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 04 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Chris45"]
Quote:
The clicking noise is coming from the right hand side tail, so near the ingnition box and coil.

Is it clicking only when you press the Start button?

Yep just when i push on the start.
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dn38416
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 04 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers everyone, i've got a charger on order. Might buy in some fuses as well looks like something worthwhile to have to hand.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 04 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dn38416 wrote:
Cheers everyone, i've got a charger on order. Might buy in some fuses as well looks like something worthwhile to have to hand.


You can find out what ones you'll need by lifting the cover of your current fuse box: on the underside of the cover there should be a diagram of what fuse is what and on the fuse itself a number clearly visible.

My fuse box has two spares already in (not a GPZ 500) and so might be worth looking if yours does too.

Halfords do a mass collection for £7-8, if you're feeling flush (probably available elsewhere cheaper).
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 05 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the GPz has slots for two spare fuses. I'd simply check them all and if the connectors look clean and bright leave 'em be. The main fuse is a whopping 30 Amp located on the (in) the starter relay. It's easy to check and good to have a spare one of those. Depending on the age of the machine I wouldn't play about with the junction box too much, the wires leading into it become stiff and brittle with age and start to fray. Jap cabling is rubbish, the wire gauge and quality is truly aweful and not designed for durability through our wet British winters, unless you live in California Rolling Eyes
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NJD
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 05 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris45 wrote:
Depending on the age of the machine I wouldn't play about with the junction box too much, the wires leading into it become stiff and brittle with age and start to fray.


I'd take from that the note that inspecting them for damage is worthwhile now more so than having electrical gublins in x amount of time and wondering why that is. If all ok probably spray with ACF-50 and forget about for majority of ownership (the wires going into the box that is, just apply a light coat on top to prevent dust gathering etc).

To add a little more to my above: wouldn't expect fuses to blow at a constant rate, or at all, and therefore wouldn't invest heavily in spares but more so one or two for the vital parts. You could probably invest in this and that but you'll never have everything you need.

Assuming you've never removed one it takes a bit of force so don't be hesitant to wiggle and pull in upwards direction; fitting should just slot straight back in.

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dn38416
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PostPosted: 00:48 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charged it up over xmas, the electrolyte levels were really really low. I think at some stage i'll need to get a new battery that must have done some long term damage (sulfation?).

Anyway one follow up dopey question - i've got a much shorter commute than in the past, like 7 miles city filtering each way. And the bike's kept outside overnight. What is it that runs the alternator to charge the battery - revs or speed?
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 01:12 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is it that runs the alternator to charge the battery - revs or speed?


As long as the idle speed is set correctly, forget about the above. Just because the engine revs higher, doesn't imply the charging rate is any faster. The RR should deliver a steady 14.5 volts to the battery for charging purposes and this can be checked with the bike idling using a voltmeter. As for the commute... seven miles isn't really long enough to get these engines properly warmed up, so I guess a regular extended run will be needed over the long term. Alternatively, try a slightly different longer route to work. From my experience these engines sound like a bag of nails when cold and with the watercooling, it really does take ages to get fully warmed up. Hope this helps.
(GPz 500 owner for 8 years)
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too, I guess. The only time I had a problem with my GPZ was when the battery got tired over winter. They do want a decent load of volt-amps to start up.

And yes, they do take a while to warm up, especially if you're riding them efficiently, below the funband.

But FFS, don't burn fuel to get electrons. Slapping a charger on the battery at the weekend will be far cheaper and kinder to the bike.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be worth checking your thermostat if the bike is taking a long time to warm up. Mine went through a spell of being fine, then stuck open, then stuck shut.
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tsmith
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just replaced my 03 GPZ500 YB14LA2 battery for an equivalent lithium-ion battery: model YTX14AH-FP
You can get them off ebay for around £80.

Also if your journey is less than 10 miles you might find your oil turns to cream cheese. This is due to the oil not getting hot enough to burn off condensation. It will get worse and worse and eventually you won't be able to see your oil level - it will just be a mass of white gunk behind the sight glass.

I solved this by blocking the radiator with some cardboard and tin foil covered in heat proof paint. Now the radiator fan just kicks in after 9 miles as I pull in to work. Temp is up to 3/4 on the guage. Previously it barely moved off the bottom.
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