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bladerunner |
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bladerunner World Chat Champion
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weasley |
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weasley World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:32 - 09 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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There are a couple of ways premium fuel can help:
1. Higher RON. This means increased resistance to preignition, which means that you can use an advanced ignition timing; this can give increased power/efficiency through having more of the expansion of the combustion phase happening after TDC. Engines with knock sensors and dynamic ignition mapping can actively hunt the optimum ignition timing, or you could manually adjust the timing for higher RON fuel (with the expectation that you then always have to use it). However, higher RON fuel can also benefit older engines if they have any combustion chamber deposits. These deposits can increase the compression ratio and act as a glow plug, both of which can lead to preignition, which the higher RON can mitigate.
2. Cleanliness. Premium fuels tend to also have higher dosages of detergents and other additives which help clean the fuel system. Fouled injectors give a sub-optimal spray pattern and dirty jets give poor carburation. These deposits can be avoided with better fuel, or even removed if you have previously used lesser fuels. Obviously better fuelling will give better combustion efficiency.
I work in this area. Not in fuels per se, but in the next door office of lubricants. I have a working knowledge of the fuels technology as it is related to what I do, plus I know the people, plus at last year’s Geneva motor show I stood on a stand of one of the fuel majors demonstrating the benefits of premium fuel to anyone who would listen (we have a car with a V8 engine, one bank ran on regular fuel, the other on super fuel, concurrently. We have endoscopes in the intakes, looking at the inlet valves and the visual difference in condition is remarkable).
So, the benefits vary depending on a number of factors. The better fuel will always be cleaner, and may also offer an additional ignition timing benefit. What this means to you in terms of value for money only you can decide. Worth mentioning that branded fuels will also tend to have some additives in their regular fuel too. ____________________
Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE |
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rcbikeracer |
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rcbikeracer Borekit Bruiser
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Courier265 |
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Courier265 World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Oct 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 16:44 - 10 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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All that premium fuel does is burn a hole in your wallet...
To be serious, filling up with Premium fuel will not do any harm at all
and in most cases nothing noticeable performance wise. You will not
get an increase in MPG by using the good stuff but with the additives
the carbs/infectors will benefit. |
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 18:12 - 10 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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Courier265 wrote: | All that premium fuel does is burn a hole in your wallet...
To be serious, filling up with Premium fuel will not do any harm at all
and in most cases nothing noticeable performance wise. You will not
get an increase in MPG by using the good stuff but with the additives
the carbs/infectors will benefit. |
Woha there you on your high horse.
If your injecticators benefit from gooder fuel then it follows the MPG will improve. Not by much but there is real evidence that it does improve.
The question is: Is it worth the few pennies more?
Firm evidence says it is. (If you want to dig it up.)
The other question is: Can your engine translate the potential benefit into real MPG?
If you do not have a knock sensor or some other method to tune ignition then it will be a waste of pennies as you will not get the most bang for your buck.
I use it and I notice the benefit but only because the engines in the bikes I have can extract the potential.
Philosophically speaking. ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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Copycat73 |
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Copycat73 World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Jan 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 19:18 - 10 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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Courier265 wrote: | All that premium fuel does is burn a hole in your wallet...
To be serious, filling up with Premium fuel will not do any harm at all
and in most cases nothing noticeable performance wise. You will not
get an increase in MPG by using the good stuff but with the additives
the carbs/infectors will benefit. |
+2mpg on the ZZR14 usin 98ron & one fill of 100ron.. ____________________ Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor |
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kramdra |
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kramdra World Chat Champion
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grr666 |
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grr666 Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:38 - 10 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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I put super in the Swift, super in the Spacker, super in the scoot and regular diesel in the van but run
a tank of super through before its MOT each year.
My reasons? Well it may all be in my head but -
The Swift starts better from cold using super. I've had 43.9mpg average across 7k miles of super usage, mrs grr
never takes it above 4k when she drives it, it's rarely under 4k when I do.
The Spacker, well it's more anti social exhaust wise when it's running on super, more pops, bangs and fi-yaaaaar.
The scoot doesn't get used much at all but it seems to pull a bit better using super. I've had 70 displayed two up on that.
Not bad for a 125 scoot with 25k on the clock. It's also happier to start after a typically long layup.
The van gets it just before MOT because it seems to run a little smoother on that, I also have it valeted on MOT week,
I think if it all looks and sound up together and isn't filthy for the tester it's more likely to pass. ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.
Last edited by grr666 on 09:33 - 11 Mar 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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Courier265 |
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Courier265 World Chat Champion
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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Fin |
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Fin World Chat Champion
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mrmistoffelee... |
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mrmistoffelee... Nova Slayer
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 14:28 - 16 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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OP does your bike have a map switch, (not a poxy riding modes switch) I mean two or more ignition maps? If not then that'll answer your question.
Mpg and engine cleanliness are very subjective and debatable too. I personally think adding stuff to fuel in the tank is better for the latter, as you can use much more concentrated doses, which is only every a one time deal really.
Once your injectors, back of your valves, and combustion chambers are clean, the additives in SUL or aftermarket additives can't clean anything further.
More mpg? Well that can only mean that your using less fuel for the same performance or are making the same performance for less throttle opening etc. If there was more midrange torque from advanced ignition mapping, the driver might be driving differently to normal and not noticing they are changing gear sooner or using less pedal travel etc.
It works the same way as some re-mapped cars get better mpg, because they can be driven less hard for the same performance, especially tuned TDI's etc.
I think engines should be built to suit the fuel your going to run, and not the other way round generally.
And ignition timing can only do so much too. If your four stroke low output motor runs 8:1 compression, then there's probably lots of scope to play with timing on the lowest grade fuels anyway.
Also bear in mind that some cars or bikes with knock sensors don't work both ways. For example on my car the knock sensor will look for det and if it detected more than a specified limit then it'll retard the ignition in closed loop mode and feedback. What it won't do is keep advancing past the pre programmed look up tables until det occurs, like some modern car ECU's will.
That's why some modern high compression and forced induction motors can make different power levels on different fuels.
Oh and with Japanese market import cars from the 90's alot of the Japanese domestic performance models had ECU's mapped at the factory to run the 100/102RON they have available there. Less power on 95 or even on 98RON in the UK is inevitable at best, and can destroy things spectacularly at worst. |
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Courier265 |
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Courier265 World Chat Champion
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fireyphoenix1... |
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fireyphoenix1... Brolly Dolly
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Powderhead |
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Powderhead Trackday Trickster
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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Powderhead |
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Powderhead Trackday Trickster
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Posted: 11:38 - 29 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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Hong Kong Phooey |
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Hong Kong Phooey World Chat Champion
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:56 - 30 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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Powderhead wrote: | ThatDippyTwat wrote: | No. It's because they have policies about it. Blanket policies. Printed on the pumps. All bikes. Full stop. |
Not at my local Sainsbury's and Shell they don't Texaco on the Albert Embankment can consistently fvck right off though : |
Your local ones may not apply the policy, but it's there all right. Have a look at the crap they stick onto on the pump. It was rudely pointed out to me in Morrisons before I dropped the nozzle on the floor (As recommended on here) and fecked off somewhere less hostile. Seems to be there in a lot of places
Shell here is notorious among locals for being outright hostile to bikes. They assume anything on two wheels is going to bilk them. Sainbury's are just confusing - I think it depends on who's working there, but they do have that policy and it's selectively enforced and pointed out to a mate by a snotty teenager. I avoid it as I CBA with the hassle. I think *Tesco* have a policy as well, but the one here has a habit of putting the wrong go juice in the wrong tank, so I avoid that as well unless I'm desperate for fuel.
Round here, it's not the 'ped boi's, it's the chavvy knuckledragging cumgzzlers in stolen/cloned car's that have a habit of forgetting to pay.
Now, my local Texaco is spot-on and my first choice. No issues no matter what bike, lid or gear I have, nor any other bike I've ever seen. They have really good CCTV though, which might be something to do with recovery/convictions. ____________________ '98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine) |
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Powderhead |
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Powderhead Trackday Trickster
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Hong Kong Phooey |
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Hong Kong Phooey World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:11 - 30 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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stevo as b4 wrote: | What car and engine is it, and does it run a factory ECU or an aftermarket one? My system like some Toyota and Other Japanese manufacturers ECU's is locked and unmappable and the knock sensor won't allow the ECU to start advancing on good fuel to look for knock. |
SAAB B205E (Trionic 7 standard ECU, remapped) - it's a well known secret the easy tunability of SAAB's, the ECU was cracked wide open many years ago
I'd have thunk Scooby's adjust well to higher octane.
ThatDippyTwat wrote: | Shell, Morrisons and Sainsbury's will want you to remove your lid before they bother turning the pump on. |
Quoted from Shell's own leaftlet, suggest you throw it in their face next time:
Shell wrote: |
WE KNOW THAT
YOUR MOTORCYCLE
IS YOUR PASSION,
AND YOUR SAFETY IS OURS
We have listened to your feedback
concerning the removal of your
motorcycle helmet when visiting our
forecourts. We understand that taking
off your helmet is an unnecessary
hindrance to your onward journey
and that’s why we’re making a promise
to only ask you to lift your visor when
filling up, or visiting our stores. If on
the rare occasion our Customer Service
Champion asks you to remove your
crash helmet, it is because they feel
a need to verify that you are over the
age of 16, which is a legal requirement.
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Linky...
https://motorcycleminds.org/documents/17012_SHELL_HELMET_POLICY_A4TRIFOLD_V8_JR.pdf ____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8 |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 21 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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