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CAR brake caliper question

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BillyJ
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 11 Mar 2018    Post subject: CAR brake caliper question Reply with quote

Front left brakes sticking on and called a garage to get them to strip and clean calliper... apparently in cars they just replace calipers?!

This was news to me and just wanted someone who knowns to confirm it please Laughing

The new caliper is cheap to be fair but I was just surprised they chuck the old ones?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-X3-E83-2004-2011-Front-Left-Passenger-N-S-Brake-Caliper/332060517139?fits=Car+Make%3ABMW%7CModel%3AX3&hash=item4d50596313:g:SxIAAOSwjJRZdPTF
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Bloggsy
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 11 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably cheaper to fit new than time used to strip/rebuild and possibly fit new pistons
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 11 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's because, despite you paying them hundreds of pounds each year to service your car, they do absolutely no routine maintainance on the brake callipers at all. Nor do they check them when they take a wheel off to change a tyre.

All they do is wind the pistons back in and lever a new set of pads in when you complain about it making a funny noise.

They then make tutting noises under their breath about how neglected they've been when they finally seize solid and tell you they're too corroded to do anything with and that you need new ones.

That sound like a familiar story?

I tore a strip off my local garage when they had to remove the callipers from my van with a fucking angle grinder. They made the afore-mentioned tutting noises so I asked how the fuck I'm expected to do routine maintainance on van brake callipers? they put four new tyres on it only a month previously and had it in for an annual service and MOT three months before that. They had it up on the lift on both occasions. As they had every year since I got it. So whose fault is it the brake callipers were seized into oblivion?

The steel brake hoses on my Suzuki Jimny corroded right through then ruptured causing a catastrophic brake failure. That one was maintained and MOTed by a different garage. Got a similar "These things are a right mess, not surprised they failed." Well what the actual fuck were you checking at the MOT all these years?
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BillyJ
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 11 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's for my dad, so actually the first time i've dealt with car garages and the standards in cars.

I can't believe how lazy these places are yet still get business Laughing Laughing it's stupid! Makes me appreciate good bike garages that do a good job and put the effort in.
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steve the grease
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 11 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: CAR brake caliper question Reply with quote

BillyJ wrote:
Front left brakes sticking on and called a garage to get them to strip and clean calliper... apparently in cars they just replace calipers?!

This was news to me and just wanted someone who knowns to confirm it please Laughing

The new caliper is cheap to be fair but I was just surprised they chuck the old ones?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-X3-E83-2004-2011-Front-Left-Passenger-N-S-Brake-Caliper/332060517139?fits=Car+Make%3ABMW%7CModel%3AX3&hash=item4d50596313:g:SxIAAOSwjJRZdPTF


They don't throw them away, many of them are returned as a core unit for re-building, and then sold , just like the one above . At forty two and a half quid , how economic do you think it would be to strip , clean and re-condition your caliper with a new re-buid kit, with labour at £45 an hour due to overheads etc, it's never going to work is it?, new part is warrantied etc etc.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 11 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask them to overhaul your old ones. Smile

Don't... FFS. Smile
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 12 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds about right, good few hours stripping, blasting and cleaning then rebuilding with a kit that costs more than a fully assembled caliper.

They also can't be blamed when the seals give out resulting in kittenslaughter.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: calipers Reply with quote

Most of the time it is far cheaper and more economical ( for the customer ) to have either new or remanufactured parts fitted to your car, you are paying the bill after all !

But, parts are available ( Peugeot oe parts for example, also after market parts and suppliers like BIGG RED etc. ).

Can the average car driver "overhaul" a caliper for example, they have enough trouble actually steering the car ffs, so no hope of "servicing" their car !!!!

The average motorcyclist ( motorcyclist, not far weather born again or otherwise "biker" ) is more "keyed up" and more "in the know".

How does a garage service a caliper ?

They aint gunna remove the caliper, strip clean fit new seals and other parts, refit and bleed etc., even merc "don't" do that.

read the service item list.

MOT, well that been dealt with, the whole scheme is a bit of a con and should be in non private business hands, right.

You cant have your cake and eat it.
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YBR Ric
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually you can have your cake and eat it,
but what you can't do is eat your cake and have it.
just sayin...

At over £800 to replace both my front callipers there is NO option just to throw them away when they become a little sticky after the first salty winter.
Car manufacturers need to get wise and jack up their prices to end this dismal waste so servicing becomes the default option Wink or OEM motorcycle part prices need to come down by about 500% .
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: calipers Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:


How does a garage service a caliper ?


Well, when they change the brake pads or discs, they could spray it over with service spray and brush the furry crap off then spray it over with brake cleaner before forcing the pistons back in. Also grease the sliding pins.

That would probably triple their service life.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had one done on my towing Passat not long ago. The Caliper cost 32 quid inc VAT, and the seals aren't made available from VW, so it's basically a disposable part. You try finding a motorcycle caliper that cost 32 quid from the manufacturer!!
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Holdawayt
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to do all the work on my cars and bikes myself. Meaning a seized caliper will normally cost me around £8 to sort out providing I don't have to replace any pistons.

It's actually quite therapeutic to sit at a desk, whack some music on and methodically strip down, clean and rebuild a set of brakes.

As above though, far easier and cheaper (if you're at a garage) to replace the caliper with a pattern part than to strip and rebuild the OEM part.


Last edited by Holdawayt on 16:30 - 13 Mar 2018; edited 1 time in total
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 13 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ones for my van were £450! Nothing to return after they'd destructively removed them.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: caliper Reply with quote

Well, when they change the brake pads or discs, they could spray it over with service spray and brush the furry crap off then spray it over with brake cleaner before forcing the pistons back in. Also grease the sliding pins.

What about the hydraulics, the main reason for the pistons "sticking" or "getting stiff", just like on our bikes.

Some car calipers even have a proper "boot" ( just like some of the bikes ) to keep the red lube ( there are other colours ) in place, thus keeping the "land" between the hydraulic seal and boot uncorroded, the cause of the stiffness, as we all know.

Brake cleaner is not that good for the rubber parts, it says so on the can.

Yes lube the slide pins, but what about the pistons and seals, not to mention the "land", the "butt" pressure point of the pad metal backing against the pad carrier, and the "channel" or slide area the pad slides on/in when automatically moving to reposition due to wear etc..

Many a time I have come across even bike pads well and truly stuck/corroded to the pad carrier, and have had to "punch" or drift the pads out.

Even some worn tapered discs can be very stubburn to remove, needing violence sometimes. Bikes are not usually that difficult.

Fluid change yes at regular intervals, we all know why ?

If a piston needs to be "forced" back in home, that suggests............but then again, how much force, a gentle screw of a clamp, gentle push of a lever ( or is that a pull ), or good old 4 wheatabix thumb pressure ?

When they change the pads etc, they will push home the pistons ( to get the new pads in, right ( or even turn/rotate some of them, particularly the rears ) ), reporting any concerns/suspicions of "stiffness" to the customer via the bill, as long as the receptionist is awake that is, and offer remedies to "clear" that particular problem.

A new or exchange recon caliper usually being the most economical option.

Check your car/bike service interval sheet for when hydraulic seals should be replaced. :karma:
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: caliper Reply with quote

£43 and you drive a bloody bmw??? I wonder what hourly rate you are on, a salary probably !!

grow up !

I bet you don't use the indicators either do you ?

Rant over, bloody bmw drivers !
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: caliper Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
£43 and you drive a bloody bmw??? I wonder what hourly rate you are on, a salary probably !!

grow up !

I bet you don't use the indicators either do you ?

Rant over, bloody bmw drivers !


Reverse snobbery much?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: caliper Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
Well, when they change the brake pads or discs, they could spray it over with service spray and brush the furry crap off then spray it over with brake cleaner before forcing the pistons back in. Also grease the sliding pins.

What about the hydraulics, the main reason for the pistons "sticking" or "getting stiff", just like on our bikes.

Some car calipers even have a proper "boot" ( just like some of the bikes ) to keep the red lube ( there are other colours ) in place, thus keeping the "land" between the hydraulic seal and boot uncorroded, the cause of the stiffness, as we all know.

Brake cleaner is not that good for the rubber parts, it says so on the can.

Yes lube the slide pins, but what about the pistons and seals, not to mention the "land", the "butt" pressure point of the pad metal backing against the pad carrier, and the "channel" or slide area the pad slides on/in when automatically moving to reposition due to wear etc..

Many a time I have come across even bike pads well and truly stuck/corroded to the pad carrier, and have had to "punch" or drift the pads out.

Even some worn tapered discs can be very stubburn to remove, needing violence sometimes. Bikes are not usually that difficult.

Fluid change yes at regular intervals, we all know why ?

If a piston needs to be "forced" back in home, that suggests............but then again, how much force, a gentle screw of a clamp, gentle push of a lever ( or is that a pull ), or good old 4 wheatabix thumb pressure ?

When they change the pads etc, they will push home the pistons ( to get the new pads in, right ( or even turn/rotate some of them, particularly the rears ) ), reporting any concerns/suspicions of "stiffness" to the customer via the bill, as long as the receptionist is awake that is, and offer remedies to "clear" that particular problem.

A new or exchange recon caliper usually being the most economical option.

Check your car/bike service interval sheet for when hydraulic seals should be replaced. Karma


All very good. But the thing is, I take my vehicle to a garage for servicing roughly once a year, I expect it to be fully serviced. It's a workng vehicle and putting it into the garage is hugely disruptive. If you had to use a hammer to get the brake pistons in, you shouldn't be telling me and you most certainly shouldn't be sending that vehicle back out again lke that, you should sort that shit out. It shouldn't even have got into that state.

If something isn't right and you don't think it's going to be fine until the next service, it should be sorted out at the time otherwise it's going to cause a breakdown.

Not my job to look at what needs doing at the service either.

I'm convinced nobody actually services cars properly. They suck the old oil out through the dipstick then shove more in from the big barrel of engine oil out the back. If you're lucky they change the filter. Then tick all those boxes and fire it back out again. If it's a bit older and they know they're going to have to do a smoke test at the next MOT, they'll sometimes change the timing belt.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: caliper Reply with quote

The garage is only going to do what its gunna be paid to do, and that sometimes needs the customers permission/agreement, items not mentioned on the service schedual, usually menu type services these days, price restricted.

Any faults/problems founds should be mentioned on the bill and the customer made very aware, that's good business, customer service and hopefully what the customer expects.

the bmw owner moaning about the mear £40 or what ever for a new caliper beggars belief.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I worked for a factors the old brake calipers all went back to a company called brake engineering we got between a tenner for front and 30 quid for a rear (we used to pay the customer about half for the old caliper off the car when they took it off

they refurbished them and we then bought them back

most expensive core was for iveco vans that they paid £100 for
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