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BHP required for 'normal' riding

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
And track days have become ever more popular over recent years.

https://i.imgur.com/cSty7X7.png

I'm not disbelieving, I just can't find figures.


That's why I said "recent years". Hard to disprove, isn't it? Laughing Hell, if you want to waste time looking for figures to prove me wrong or whatever, be my guest. I can't be arsed, cos I really don't care about it that much.

Jeez, I bet you lot would be a hoot down the pub Rolling Eyes


Very Happy
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s the problem with Borg, he needs citations for everything rather than relying on common sense. Trackdays are popular as fuck cause lots of folk like riding fast without the risks and social stigma of doing it on the road, plus it’s the best way to improve your riding bar none.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
That’s the problem with Borg, he needs citations for everything rather than relying on common sense.


There are times when facts and figures are useful, important even. But tearing everything into little pieces and analysing every little sentence gets quite tedious. Bit sad really. You can't even have a decent conversation these days. And I don't even mind being proved wrong, or set straight. But fuck me, are there some anally retentive people on the internet!
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 01:34 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree manageableness in all conditions you're likely to ride in is a consideration as much as out and out power. The """luxury""" of a 55bhp KdFWagen Polo with Michelin winter rated tyres during the recent weather where I have bimbled past many stranded vehicles, may of which pretend to be off roaders has taught me a great deal.

That said, my 125s both had abysmal tyres, although the no-name and slightly off-spec chinese tyres were better than the metzler ME11s (I think i have the name right, long time ago). My 185kg bike was easy to push about but tyre choice was a toss up between Avon deathsliders and Conti Millstones, the Avons being more confidence inspiring than the decidedly squirmy millstones but when I got clumsy on the avons it went from ok to check-trousers rather fast.

My decidedly heavy and soft bandit feels a lot more sure footed (and less exciting) than an FZS600 or FZ6 and shod with Michelin PR4s has always surprised me with just how well it stick to the road in shitty conditions. When it finally dies of too many miles, I will be looking for something that feels similarly sure footed. Reliable ABS might be nice, having got used to a shitty car with rather violent ABS and emergency brake assist, but if I go hunting for something with more power the chances are i'll then be looking at a lot of electronics to tame it on a suboptimal day and I'm particularly concerned about the snatchy nature of economy focused fuel injection compared to how smooth my carbed bikes have been.

I think I'm going to be looking for lighter and slimmer but in the same ballpark of capacity and power. Perhaps a weestrom or an mt07 tracer, but I really don't know and that day is hopefully a long way off.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 06:13 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it really boils down to the individual and the type of bike/gearing/setup they're riding. These things massively change your experience and are so variable it makes the question impossible to answer. One persons normal is another persons extreme etc...

When it comes to bike power, there seem to be a lot of comments about 150bhp+ being overkill, too much for the road etc, but in my opinion, you can't taint every 150+ bike with the same brush, and the same goes for <100bhp bikes. My K4 GSXR 1000 was totally impractical for road riding, you had to seriously wind the thing up, and when first gear is 100mph, that's never a good thing. My KTM on the other hand, which has more power (circa 188 at the crank) than the GSXR, is pushing the rev limiter in 3rd as you approach 80/90 mph. I've always found, in small doses, light weight performance 2 strokes the most fun and intense bikes, but there's no way I would want one as my only bike as they naturally encourage you to be on the edge and are far more impractical compared to more powerful >600cc bikes.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Meh, I've had a couple of 1l+ bikes


Then why do you have an L Plate taped to the back of the sissy bar?

https://i.imgur.com/bDeMBBQl.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
That's why I said "recent years". Hard to disprove, isn't it?

You mistake interest for accusation. Maybe I just think you're the prettiest poster in the forum.

I'll take it that you feel that it's true, which is fine, since feels beat reals in $CURRENT_YEAR.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


I'll take it that you feel that it's true, which is fine, since feels beat reals in $CURRENT_YEAR.


I'm sure the world will suffer for it if I'm wrong Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
I'll take it that you feel that it's true, which is fine, since feels beat reals in $CURRENT_YEAR.

I'm sure the world will suffer for it if I'm wrong Laughing

I'm already suffering a stabbing pain in my pedant glands not knowing if you're right or wrong. The reason I asked is that the ACU and BMRC don't seem to provide figures and I was wondering if you'd seen any.

I realise this is like feeding meths to a tramp, but I've got an itch now that reeeeally needs scratched.
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BillyJ
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:

Having 150+ though makes my willy bigger Laughing


This Laughing

And being able to go prison speeds in first gear is fun. That said, I reckon 60ish would do me, preferably a v twin or v4 Thumbs Up
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

I'm sure the world will suffer for it if I'm wrong Laughing
I'm already suffering a stabbing pain in my pedant glands not knowing if you're right or wrong. The reason I asked is that the ACU and BMRC don't seem to provide figures and I was wondering if you'd seen any.

I realise this is like feeding meths to a tramp, but I've got an itch now that reeeeally needs scratched.


Why would the ACU and BMRC have info on track day bookings? Track day organisers will, but I don’t see why they’d share it to placate some autist on an Internet forum.

Let’s just say if you fancy doing a weekend trackday on a decent circuit in a warmer part of the year you’d best book it shortly after its announced. Other than cancellations you’ve fuck all chance of getting on in my experience.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Meh, I've had a couple of 1l+ bikes


Then why do you have an L Plate taped to the back of the sissy bar?

https://i.imgur.com/bDeMBBQl.jpg


DD40, SP60, re-take test. Pretty common knowledge on here I thought, but whatever.
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody "needs" a 150bhp bike for normal road riding.

We "want" one. That is the difference.


Plus doing close to 200mph on a public road makes me moist.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMSXR makes a good point too, but it's probably already covered in bike weight and power to weight ratio partly.

Not all <50bhp bikes feel slow, some weigh under 100kg the same as my 125.

And big power engines and those with loads of low down tyre shredding drive are massively better suited to big heavy bikes instead of 1000cc sportsbike/WSB replicas.

If you have a big tourer or 100% road going adventure bike, then 150-200bhp might be really useful. Say your carrying 200kg of rider&passenger+ 60-70kg of stuff, and you want to ride abroad on big fast motorways at a comfy well into 3figures cruise, or you want to carry all that weight up the Alps to high altitude. Loads of easy accessed minimal gear changing grunt might the difference between a relaxing easy smooth day, and a tiring irritating or fatigued one. So a 150-200bhp Multistrada, or GTR1400 or Similar might have a great case for that amount of power.

Also the big sports tourers, GSX1300R and ZZR etc, they also make a greater case for 200bhp. They are long and low and stable. They don't need to be flickable or turn in trail braking to the apex, and be ultra nimble. They do need the power because they have big swoopy fairings that are good at cutting through the air at 180mph+, so they need the power too to take advantage of this. They also with long wheelbases and low C of G, are good for getting off the line and being able to put more power down to the rear tyre before it spins up, than short stumpy light bikes that are trying to flip over backwards on acceleration.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 19 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Why would the ACU and BMRC have info on track day bookings?

I was hoping that they'd be minimally competent and would be collating figures in order to lobby the Man and defend the sport from legislation, including the still looming Vnuk insurance verdict.

You know what an optimist I am though.
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biker7
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 20 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:

Also the big sports tourers, GSX1300R and ZZR etc, they also make a greater case for 200bhp. They are long and low and stable. They don't need to be flickable or turn in trail braking to the apex, and be ultra nimble. They do need the power because they have big swoopy fairings that are good at cutting through the air at 180mph+, so they need the power too to take advantage of this. They also with long wheelbases and low C of G, are good for getting off the line and being able to put more power down to the rear tyre before it spins up, than short stumpy light bikes that are trying to flip over backwards on acceleration.


True Thumbs Up
Also the Busa is better at handling than many people think:
https://youtu.be/bCbnUlGn0Lg
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 08:54 - 20 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

I was hoping that they'd be minimally competent and would be collating figures in order to lobby the Man and defend the sport from legislation, including the still looming Vnuk insurance verdict.

You know what an optimist I am though.


The ACU and BMRC only administer racing, not track days. They don’t give a shit about track days. MSVT/ no talent / CBT etc will know this as they organise trackday booking, but as I said, they don’t care about someone being a curious sperg on a forum. The VNUK thing is just scaremongering anyway.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 20 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:


If you have a big tourer or 100% road going adventure bike, then 150-200bhp might be really useful. Say your carrying 200kg of rider&passenger+ 60-70kg of stuff, and you want to ride abroad on big fast motorways at a comfy well into 3figures cruise, or you want to carry all that weight up the Alps to high altitude. Loads of easy accessed minimal gear changing grunt might the difference between a relaxing easy smooth day, and a tiring irritating or fatigued one. So a 150-200bhp Multistrada, or GTR1400 or Similar might have a great case for that amount of power.
.


Very true. 130+ bhp makes my Trophy a very easy relaxing bike to ride despite the weight. It doesn't really matter if I'm in the wrong gear, it will still pull easily. I don't have to rev the nuts off it to get that power either so it's not just the power the engine delivers, it's how and where in the rev band it delivers the power.
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