|
Author |
Message |
Powderhead |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Powderhead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 06 Mar 2018 Karma :
|
Posted: 14:57 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: FITE: BikeSafe v IAM v RoSPA v DIAmond v ERS v BMF v ? |
|
|
Background: I've been riding for about 3 years. Started on a 125, rode it for 2 years, binned it, and then bought an MT-07 a year ago. My riding is mainly commuting from Kingston upon Thames to central London, and the occasional weekend blast.
With a view to doing some more advanced training in the future, I've just booked a BikeSafe Workshop in June, starting at the Ace Cafe. I'm also going to buy a copy of Roadcraft, so I'll be learning and practising what I can from it myself anyway. If all else fails, it'll help me sleep
I know there's a bunch of different courses and assessments you can do, and from what I've read, it seems like IAM and RoSPA are the most popular (apart from BikeSafe).
The local IAM group (LAM) are bike-only, and fairly big. They also do a fair few weekend rides and overseas trips, which might be a laugh. However, it's mainly old blokes, and I'm not sure they really cover much town riding. My understanding is that it's mainly country lanes and A-roads, which are two things I hardly ever encounter in my day-to-day riding.
My local RoSPA group seem near-impossible to get hold of, so I might have to write that off before I even start. I've also read a lot of their literature, and it all seems very SPEED KILLS, MORE CAMERAS, SAVE KITTENS. Not sure I can deal with their ethics I'm also not particularly keen on the idea of a 3-year re-test, although I can understand the appeal.
I know you can also do other further training, e.g. DIAmond, the ERS (Enhanced Rider Scheme), the BMF Blue Riband, etc., but I have no real knowledge of these or how they work. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's had experience of anything other than IAM/RoSPA/BikeSafe and how they got on with it.
I also plan to do a few trackdays as I'm sure I'll learn as much, if not more, from riding the bike in anger.
tl;dr - what's the best advanced training to do, and why?
My main interest is becoming a better, safer rider, but I'd like something with a bit of a social aspect if possible. I don't have any biking pals, so meeting up with some people for the occasional hoon would be good. I'm not doing it for the (almost certainly negligible) insurance savings, although I'll take 'em if they're there
What say you, BCF? |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
grr666 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
grr666 Super Spammer
Joined: 16 Jun 2014 Karma :
|
Posted: 16:14 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
I'm doing my DIAmond Elite advanced test later this year. To attain this level I can make no more than two minor errors
during the course of the 'examined' ride, and must complete a pretty long commentary ride section. Since this was part and
parcel of my training to drive a bus many years ago I can switch into commentary mode with relative ease. I had the
assessment day out ride (7 hours, just me and the instructor) last year and was appraised as being more than capable of
passing the elite test, which was nice to hear. I was bought the course as a gift so I never got to choose which advanced
course to do. If my wife has asked me what I wanted, in all honesty I wanted to go to wheelie school. I can't
wheelie for toffee. ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
grr666 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
grr666 Super Spammer
Joined: 16 Jun 2014 Karma :
|
Posted: 16:28 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Which is why I want to learn (On someone elses bike and insurance). ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 16:35 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Bikesafe, IAM and RoSPA all pray at the altar of Roadcraft.
Bikesafe can only give a very brief taster, but it's a fun day. The copper doing mine noted that the people who sign up for it tend to be the ones who need it the least, which is cheery.
I also failed to get in touch with the local RoSPA group - I think I was supposed to use a carrier pigeon.
The IAM were, as you note, old(er) blokes, but not necessarily slow(er) blokes. The chap I did my assessed ride with was a track racer.
And yes, they were all about Making Progress on B roads, and seemed surprised that anyone would even ask about town riding. Guess what Roadcraft focusses on?
In the end, I sodded them off because they didn't ride as they preached. Too much speed over blind crests and bends because they were riding on the assumption that the road they couldn't see was clear. Or had X-ray vision. Since their assessment of my riding was "Moar speed, go faster", we parted ways.
It's entirely down to the local group though, so I'd encourage you to give them a try.
What I will say is that if you actually self assess your riding on an ongoing basis, you're probably going to do better than someone who's got themselves a gold star and then treats it as a licence to ignore everything they've just learned. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
AshWebster |
This post is not being displayed .
|
AshWebster Brolly Dolly
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Fisty |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Fisty Super Spammer
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
redeem ouzzer |
This post is not being displayed .
|
redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Powderhead |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Powderhead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 06 Mar 2018 Karma :
|
Posted: 18:03 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: Re: FITE: BikeSafe v IAM v RoSPA v DIAmond v ERS v BMF v ? |
|
|
Thanks for the replies all.
Rogerborg wrote: | And yes, they were all about Making Progress on B roads, and seemed surprised that anyone would even ask about town riding. |
Are there any you're aware of which focus more on town riding?
Rogerborg wrote: | Since their assessment of my riding was "Moar speed, go faster", we parted ways. |
Is riding too slowly (in their opinion) a fail? Clearly, if you're doing 30 up the motorway then it's too slow, but I definitely don't want to be pushed into doing a full 60mph at all times on every single country road.
Fisty wrote: | The best advanced training is a race school. |
GT200Fan79 wrote: | +1 track riding is the only useful training. |
Good call. I'll probably end up doing both at some point to be honest. A "sensible" IAM/RoSPA-type one and a Ron Haslam/California Superbike School-type one. And some track days
Last edited by Powderhead on 18:04 - 22 Mar 2018; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
P. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
P. Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
grr666 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
grr666 Super Spammer
Joined: 16 Jun 2014 Karma :
|
Posted: 18:11 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
I think there are elements of both that are useful. Haven't tracked a bike yet but have numerous times on 4 wheels.
I'm not sure tracking a car taught me any new skills for on the road that I never already had but I do acknowledge the
more physical side of riding a bike aggressively might be better learned away from traffic. That's not to deny the validity
of an advanced road course, in my opinion if you learn just 1 thing that saves your bacon one day in the future then it
was worth the effort and expense whether that was on track or on the Queens highway. ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
P. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
P. Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Freddyfruitba... |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 May 2016 Karma :
|
Posted: 19:22 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Rogerborg wrote: | Bikesafe, IAM and RoSPA all pray at the altar of Roadcraft.
Bikesafe can only give a very brief taster, but it's a fun day. The copper doing mine noted that the people who sign up for it tend to be the ones who need it the least, which is cheery.
I also failed to get in touch with the local RoSPA group - I think I was supposed to use a carrier pigeon. |
Definitely agree with all that. Interestingly I never managed to get in touch with IAM, which was mainly why I have come to be with RoSPA currently. After a Bikesafe (which as noted, is only one session) I decided to sign up to either IAM or RoSPA and my research suggested they were much of a muchness, and nothing I've heard or found out since since has made me think otherwise. As Roger says I'm sure it's really down to the aptitude and enthusiasm of your local group, and success/failure to contact prospective punters is probably a good starting point!
So, I'm doing the training with RoSPA at the moment. I definitely rate it and really feel I've learned a lot, both in terms of machine control etc and personal safety - even if I was to stop now and not take a test I'd certainly say I'm a better and safer rider than before I started.
As for track days.... absolutely, great idea and yes it will improve your riding, but it's certainly not a replacement for road training. You're obviously not going to learn about safe road positioning (in terms of other road users), overtaking and general cager-avoidance skills which are key to staying shiny side up.
Good luck whatever you decide ____________________ KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:04 - 22 Mar 2018 Post subject: Re: FITE: BikeSafe v IAM v RoSPA v DIAmond v ERS v BMF v ? |
|
|
Powderhead wrote: | Are there any you're aware of which focus more on town riding? |
Nope, sorry. I can't think of anyone who teaches it, which seems like a gap in the market.
Powderhead wrote: | Is riding too slowly (in their opinion) a fail? Clearly, if you're doing 30 up the motorway then it's too slow, but I definitely don't want to be pushed into doing a full 60mph at all times on every single country road. |
This was long about 2011 or so, so it may have changed now. IAM HQ was talking about dropping the focus on Making Progress, but whether that actually filtered down to the groups, I don't know.
I'd stress that we're not talking crazy antics here, I've seen far worse on group ride outs. And they were constructive in their assessment. Much of it is useful at any speed, like taking wider approaches, but the focus was definitely on "... so that you can go faster."
Check out your local groups, be up front about what you're interested in. Worst case you'll go on a nice ride on some roads that you might not know, so it's a win either way. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
mas101 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
mas101 Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 26 Sep 2016 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
duhawkz |
This post is not being displayed .
|
duhawkz World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
G |
This post is not being displayed .
|
G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
UncleFester |
This post is not being displayed .
|
UncleFester World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jun 2013 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
bamt |
This post is not being displayed .
|
bamt World Chat Champion
Joined: 15 Dec 2013 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 10:38 - 23 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
bamt wrote: | what goes on on an observed ride doesn't necessarily reflect how hard you are are expected to ride all the time. |
Which makes the process a farce, in my not at all humble opinion.
Consider that The Noble Roadcraft dictates that you should ride a road every time the same way that you ride it the first time, because your first impression of its potential hazards is more accurate than the false sense of security that comes not running into a tractor over every blind crest.
But I should ignore that and press on, in order to demonstrate that I've not accepted The Noble Roadcraft as my personal saviour?
I'll pass on passing that test, thanks. It doesn't meet my standards. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
P. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
P. Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :
|
Posted: 10:47 - 23 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Freddyfruitba... |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 May 2016 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Powderhead |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Powderhead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 06 Mar 2018 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
G |
This post is not being displayed .
|
G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 37 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
|
|
|