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Heating issues...

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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Heating issues... Reply with quote

Hey.

House has 4 radiators upstairs, all get hot. 3 downstairs, only 1 gets hot.

This is with the thermostat set to max and boiler set to max.

When I press the button to turn the heating off, the 2 that don't get hot are suddenly heating up. All the pipes get toasty and it's all good.

However... Ideally I want them on when I press the heating on Laughing

Anyone have any ideas... I partly think bleeding the radiator would help or at least confirm it's not that, but the radiator bleed screw is.... Not really square Rolling Eyes
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turn off all the radiators other than one of the ones that isn't getting hot. See if it gets hot (it ought to). Repeat this process with the other two.


Now go round and balance them. Start with them off then open the valve a little on the one nearest the boiler, just enough for it to get hot. Then move on to the next nearest. You'll have to open the valve progressively more on each one as you go round.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm... By turn off...?

I'll add some photos. All my radiators have nonadjustable ends.

https://imgur.com/vk0zXxL

I have no temperature adjuster either. It's all done centrally on the thermostat. Homo as shit, but is what it is.
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Bikeless
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Erm... By turn off...?

I'll add some photos. All my radiators have nonadjustable ends.

https://imgur.com/vk0zXxL

I have no temperature adjuster either. It's all done centrally on the thermostat. Homo as shit, but is what it is.


Is that not a valve that can be turned off with an adjustable wrench?
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bugeye_bob
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure all the radiators are working of the CH side of the Boiler?
I recently found a system when 8 or 9 were off the CH side of the boiler, and were controlled by a 2 way valve/stat, but 2 in the lounge were fed from the HW side, not on the 2 way valve or stat,
if you turn the CH off, the spare hot water may be heating the other rads, hope that make sense, as I had never seen anything like it before,
But a Plumber who had to come and swap the 2 way valve had.
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J4mes
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Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikeless wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
Erm... By turn off...?

I'll add some photos. All my radiators have nonadjustable ends.

https://imgur.com/vk0zXxL

I have no temperature adjuster either. It's all done centrally on the thermostat. Homo as shit, but is what it is.


Is that not a valve that can be turned off with an adjustable wrench?


Yes it's called a locksheild and is how the rads are balanced.
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andys675
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I followed a vid on youtube because of the same problem, bled all the radiators, made sure all of the valves weren't stuck on the inlet side and balanced the outlets so the hot water didn't return too quickly, the hardest part was realising there was a stupid cover on the inlets that needed removing first. Was surprised how easy it was and got more or less instant results
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 08:08 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikeless wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
Erm... By turn off...?

I'll add some photos. All my radiators have nonadjustable ends.

https://imgur.com/vk0zXxL

I have no temperature adjuster either. It's all done centrally on the thermostat. Homo as shit, but is what it is.


Is that not a valve that can be turned off with an adjustable wrench?


I can screw them in... So, screw them all in and open them one by one?
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doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can leave the cool ones as they are, reduce the flow to the ones getting hot.
Here we have solid fuel based system and basically the first one in the line you only have that valve open a quarter turn or the later ones don't get warm.
With the pump going you will probably be able to hear when you have stopped it or allowed a bit through.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll do that when I arrive. Cheers guys.
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Freddyfruitba...
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Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

J4mes wrote:
Bikeless wrote:
Is that not a valve that can be turned off with an adjustable wrench?

Yes it's called a lockshield and is how the rads are balanced.

Yes and no.
Since the radiators in question apparently don't have individual TRVs (thermostats), they are going to have one of these simple mechanical valves on either end. Example:

https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/14902.jpg

It's provided with two caps, one if it's to be used as a 'wheelhead' (control) valve, and the other if it's to be used as a 'lockshield' valve. The 'wheelhead' cap allows you to open and close the valve at will (ie, to turn that radiator on or off), whereas the 'lockshield' cap is simply a non-adjustable cover for the ugly metal valve head.

When the system is setup by the plumber, he will designate one valve as a lockshield and the other as a wheelhead. He will (or at least should) then spend time 'balancing' the central heating system by opening or closing the lockshield valves on all the radiators to get equal flow through all of them. Typically that means the radiator furthest away from the boiler will have its lockshield valve fully open, whereas on the radiator nearest to the boiler it will almost be full closed. Once the system is properly balanced, the caps are fitted and the lockshield valve setting should in theory never be touched again; the radiator is controlled exclusively by the wheelhead valve.

However the problem arises when a few years down the line Paddy moves in and finds that all the plastic caps are missing from the radiators - they've been broken or just got lost. There is therefore no way to tell which is supposed to be the wheelhead valve and which is the lockshield, and it's highly likely that they'll have been used interchangeably so that the system balancing has been completely bolloxed, and that's almost certainly what's happened here.

The system needs now needs rebalancing from scratch; start off by designating a lockshield valve on every radiator. Doesn't matter which; you'd normally make the least accessible valve the lockshield. Open up every valve on every radiator to max (using an adjustable spanner). Than the tricky part... close down only the lockshield valves on each of the radiators enough to get equal flow and therefore temperature gradient across each one. They will interact with each other of course so it's a right ball-ache to do properly, and to be honest the vast majority of plumbers don't bother doing it properly. There's a decent 'how-to' here . Once you've done this, it's really important to make sure nobody messes with the lockshields again - ideally get hold of some of the correct plastic caps (easier said than done).
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I seem to now have functioning radiators. Did as explained by stinkwheel and all, then followed up with fruitbats link and on absolutely full temp, which is like 30, every radiator is showing ~2 degrees of eachother at top and bottom, bar one. The small bedroom, but that's got a 3/4 hot radiator, top right near bleed screw is a bit cold, I'll give it a bleed.

Thanks all, karma when I have access to something that's not my phone.
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