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Why are used bikes so expensive? Dealers respond.

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Why are used bikes so expensive? Dealers respond. Reply with quote

It's a detailed, interesting, in-depth article, so of course it's via Bennetts.

tl;dr version - yes there are slightly fewer bikes around due to the 2008 - 2011 sales slump and the #BecauseBrexit fall in Sterling, but there's no massive shortage.

But the big issue is, as I've long suspected and speculated, an inflationary spiral of private sellers finding the highest dealer asking price for a similar bike, then adding a bit on because theirs is a Very Clean Example.

The saltiness from the dealers they interviewed is rather tasty though, and worth lapping up.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Re: Why are used bikes so expensive? Dealers respond. Reply with quote

read with interest ... Thumbs Up

Dealers have had it their own way for lots and lots of years .. not so much now ..

Salty Dealer wrote:

Yamaha’s 2008 4C8 R1 – underseat pipes; the last model before the 2009 crossplane crank R1 – is a good machine, but it’s no classic.


squeal like a pig boy

Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing Ha ! Laughing

there is also a lot of bikes that have disappeared into people's garages and will not be traded on ...

saw somewhere the numbers on households with multiple bike ownership ...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Re: Why are used bikes so expensive? Dealers respond. Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
saw somewhere the numbers on households with multiple bike ownership ...

Shifty

Mmm, I suspect there's very little correlation between the number of bike licences, the number of licensees with bikes, the number of bikes per licensee, and the number of bikes actually being ridden on the road on a regular basis.

I did like the "£500 worth of warranty" part. Why not "£500 worth of testing, replacing and repairing before we sell it so that you won't need the warranty"? Whistle
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm? I read the article and did not entirely agree with it.

The other side of the coin imho could be that in the past, dealers have offered such shit money for used bikes that people have thought to themselves “I’ll sell it myself “.

Dealers can offer crap money for used bikes, but then they cannot be surprised if people sell elsewhere.

So many dealers don’t look after their customers.
I live in Ipswich and go all the way to just outside Norwich to get good customer service.
I get good customer service there and would consider buying a bike from them.

Thief-bay and Scum-tree are not going to go away so dealers are going to have to find a way of competing with that.
I might suggest good customer service could be a good way to get people back through their doors.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so much disagreeing with the premise as explaining it - an explanation with which I fully agree. "Vinnie" here (no relation to Candelin, I hope) even admits it that they're not offering value to sellers:

TFA wrote:
Now, in the old days,” says Vinnie, “I’d say look, I’m a dealer, you wanna sell it and I wanna sell it for you, so to do that I need to come out to you, give it a service, put some warranty on it, and still have some meat on it... and I think people would have some sympathy and understanding with that. Now, people think, nah, don’t worry, someone else will buy it. So we’re seeing fewer part exchanges come in on deals, because people can sell their bike on for a few hundred quid more – and why wouldn’t you?

My only bike dealer experience was negative, and I really can't see why I'd give another one a chance.

After all, you can only really find out how good or bad they are when things go wrong, and if they're bad like Vince Candelin, Victor Devine, or Junction 17 Cars, Peterborough, then you're down on money, and left to whistle for your "warranty".
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres basically two options now...

Buy second hand in a private sale
Buy new from dealer with 0% or PCP

Why would u buy 2nd hand from a dealer with marked up prices (for overheads etc) when u can get one for cheaper in a private sale. So long as you know what youre doing i suppose....

People only go to dealers now for "peace of mind"

edit: i forgot to add option 3: if ur rich u just buy wtf u want
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not always true about buying cheaper & better private ..

Stepson has just bought a VTX1300 from a dealer, under 20K on the clock, and looks like it's just rolled off the production line, complete with warranty, 12 month MOT, and 6 months road tax for £4700

The only 1 I can find cheaper on ebay, is for £4000, private sale ..

Older and has covered more miles, and not in as good condition ..

No warranty (obviously)
Not tax (obviously)

Although it does come with a 2 month MOT ..
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Aky208
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
6 months road tax for £4700


I thought tax isn't transferable anymore, so how has he managed that?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A dealer can tax it for you.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
A dealer can tax it for you.

A dealer can pretend to be you while paying the new-keeper VED.

So £4612 + £88 VED then. They're not throwing it in free.

The 12 month MOT's from an independent MOT tester with no relationship to the dealer, right?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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biker7
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dealers make profit. Buyers make a loss. That's the way it goes. Why? Because we let them! We just don't object unless of course we walk away. There are obviously enough of us suckers to make the system work as dealers seem to stay in business, well they do around me. I've been part exing and buying new, dealer bikes for a good few years now. I'm not particularly rich but spend quite a bit of what I have put by over the years on bikes. I sell/buy almost annually to feed my habit. I use dealers because they have nice bikes for me to look at and test ride (a lot!). But I shop around, buy pre reg when I can, and they know I won't stay loyal to get ripped off so generally secure good deals. I don't trust dealers any more than I trust anyone but they are useful to me and I to them. If they are asking over the top prices, market forces will operate to make them lower. I will pay a bit over the odds to get a good used bike and buy a slightly more up market new model than originally intended if it's something I want. The market depends on buyers of new bikes to feed the second hand supply. As for bikes costing too much...use a cheaper manufacturer or take advantage of 0% to get a good deal. Don't like PCP - we have all been persuaded into thinking it's the only way to own a luxury bike. Unfortunately you end up owing or refinancing - it's never ending. But if monthly payments only matter then they've got you. As long as we are bikeaholics, the industry will thrive. Good luck to those with the knowledge and or courage to drive a good private bargain. I will continue to pour cash into the dealers' accounts but in return I always have fairly nice metal in my garage. I'm ok with that.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 06 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Ste wrote:
A dealer can tax it for you.

A dealer can pretend to be you while paying the new-keeper VED.

So £4612 + £88 VED then. They're not throwing it in free.

The 12 month MOT's from an independent MOT tester with no relationship to the dealer, right?


Never said it was free, just included, either way it doesn't matter, because, still cheaper than private sale !!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:31 - 06 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was playing around with the idea of trading my Trophy in for a Goldwing, despite me looking to buy a £20000 bike I actually got a better offer from Webuyanybike than I did from the Honda dealer.

OK, I'm only talking a few quid, not even a hundred difference, but they were both over a grand lower than the cheapest private on on fleabay and 1.5 grand lower than the cheapest dealer offering.

My old street triple that I traded in for the Triumph Explorer went up for sale at £500 more than they gave me for the trade in price which I would say was a reasonably fair mark up.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 06 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
still cheaper than private sale !!

£4622 is cheaper than £4000? Dealarithmetic?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 06 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
linuxyeti wrote:
still cheaper than private sale !!

£4622 is cheaper than £4000? Dealarithmetic?


I also said it wasn't like for like.. Yes, less money for the private sale, however need to factor in, that the bike in the private sale, is older, has covered more miles, and, cosmetically at least, is not up to the same standard as the 1 from the dealer was. Plus, pretty unlikely to get any form of warranty with the private sale, but he got 12months with the dealer bought bike, not that he's had to make use of the warranty so far ..

So, overall, I would say it's a better deal from the dealer .. So, when I said cheaper last night, I should have written better value for money
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fireyphoenix1...
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 06 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bike £3500, same bike in a dealer with similar mileage £6275. This they were taking liberty's there.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 00:47 - 07 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're talking 2008> bikes only, then some of what's been said makes sense. As for sports bikes, well for 10years new sales have been in decline due to changing UK buying tastes.

But on used bikes, and the older end of this range I don't think the demand has slowed in keeping with new bike sales. Some people are coming of age to where they can get their first big sports bike and still want them.

The fact that the new bike buyer's of 10years ago have said fuck it I want an adventure or street or naked bike now they are fashionable, has little effect other than meaning there's plenty of unwanted sports bikes coming onto the used market.

The other thing that the article doesn't mention is mainly applying to the 15year old+ bikes. These are slowly becoming classic now, with the associated price tax. I've seen 98 R1's in Dealers that are tidy but not perfect for £7k+. That's as much or more than the 2008 Bikes almost.

Then you have richer middle age people hunting for nostalgia from the days of the 90's bike scene pinnacle. They have the cash to spend and want the bikes they missed out on, or the same as they had in the day. This is also influenced by the fact that real old cult classics like two stroke sports bikes have megasploded in value, so some buyers that missed the boat are now buying the 15-20year old bikes, and maybe chancing their luck on the next big thing.

Lastly I think that there's more people than ever parting out bikes for profit, and it's more of an everyone is at it in their garage/garden legit or otherwise. This has reduced the number of older used bikes available for sale, and had even more impact on the fixer up project bikes and resto candidates.
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