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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
And yet here you are.


I'm here in this thread because the subject interests me. I have been reading about Russian affairs since long before this thread began. For some years in fact, although I don't call myself a scholar in the subject. It's a bit off and on for me. Definitely 'on' right now though!
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Certainly there seem to be plenty of Russians who share my mistrust, even openly declare it, although that probably isn't too wise if they do it from Russian soil and are persistent about it. But for the majority who just want to get on with their lives.


They mysteriously fall out of five story buildings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple of facts for those of you wondering why the Skripals are still alive.

On finding someone who appears to be suffering a cardiac arrest, one of the first drugs a paramedic would give someone in an attempt to restart their heart is atropine.

One of the the specific antidotes to anticholinesterase nerve agents, as issued in automatic injector pens to troops working in suspect chemical environments is... Atropine.

So, there is a good chance they were inadvertantly administered the very drug that would keep them alive in the case of nerve agent poisoning very shortly after their collapse. Especially if their heart stopped or started beating very slowly.
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Just a couple of facts for those of you wondering why the Skripals are still alive.

On finding someone who appears to be suffering a cardiac arrest, one of the first drugs a paramedic would give someone in an attempt to restart their heart is atropine.

One of the the specific antidotes to anticholinesterase nerve agents, as issued in automatic injector pens to troops working in suspect chemical environments is... Atropine.

So, there is a good chance they were inadvertantly administered the very drug that would keep them alive in the case of nerve agent poisoning very shortly after their collapse. Especially if their heart stopped or started beating very slowly.


Yep, this is definitely true. I saw someone get saved from nerve gas, using Atropine, on 'Homeland.'
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:

Yep, this is definitely true...


Woah, hang on!

It's only true when MPD says it's true!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's definately true. I was CS gassed and had to practice response to a nerve agent attack using dummy atropine injectors (find in bag, remove lid, bang into thigh) when I was in the OTC. Harder than you'd think with snot flying out of every facial orifice and wearing 3 romeo NBC kit.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
https://youtu.be/BROMV0nJvyE

Pretty much nailed the false flag reasoning.


Aside from the Douma 'chemical attack' stuff, Russia lies as a matter of policy? Surely not...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calm down chap, you'll have a heart attack Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all very well saying why would Bashar al-Assad do this or that, but he's not running the show over there, the Russians are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43792120

11 days after the attack,

Quote:
The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons will be given access to an alleged chemical attack site in Syria, Russia says.

- they have been unable to visit the nearby town of Douma because of "security issues" cited by Russia.

-concerns that Russia, the Syrian government's ally, might have tampered with the site.

Opposition activists, medical organisations and rescue workers say more than 40 people were killed when aircraft dropped barrel bombs filled with toxic chemicals on the town while it was still held by rebel forces.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/4f/89/9d4f893f2af7eea94141c299a81712ab.jpg
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
It's all very well saying why would Bashar al-Assad do this or that, but he's not running the show over there, the Russians are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43792120

11 days after the attack,

Quote:
The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons will be given access to an alleged chemical attack site in Syria, Russia says.

- they have been unable to visit the nearby town of Douma because of "security issues" cited by Russia.

-concerns that Russia, the Syrian government's ally, might have tampered with the site.

Opposition activists, medical organisations and rescue workers say more than 40 people were killed when aircraft dropped barrel bombs filled with toxic chemicals on the town while it was still held by rebel forces.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/4f/89/9d4f893f2af7eea94141c299a81712ab.jpg


That's just bullshit western propaganda, you'll believe any drivel they spoon feed you.

Russian troops were only there, 11 days before the opcw, to make the beds and fluff the pilllows ready for the opcw, and obviously to make sure its secure too.

They absolutely weren't there to clean up or remove evidence of a chemical weapon attack, that never happed because the uk/us/rebels faked it. Despite the WHO having evidence off people suffering for the effects of said chemical weapons.

Obviously the WHO are just another western fake news pedalling propaganda machine.

Wake up sheeple. Smell the chemtrails
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly:

mpd72 wrote:


I'm not the one believing the shite being fed to me.


Are you saying that everything you have posted here, you made up yourself?

mpd72 wrote:
You're happy to believe the shit May and Johnson say as fact , when they say things like "probably" or "most likely".
I don't. I think there's far more to the whole Syria thing that the plebs are being told.

We all know Russia has an interest in Syria remaining under Assad's control, because they want a gas pipeline running through Syria to keep them supplying 80% of their gas to Europe.
It's also no secret that the UK, EU and the US don't want this pipeline building and instead want one passing through Quatar and Turkey so we're less dependant on Russia for gas and Russia has less power over Europe.

Hang on a minute.... you don't think.... you know... this whole thing, Salisbury, demonising Russia and Assad has anything to do with it do you? Shocked
No, surely not. It's not like out leaders ever lie about their reasons for invading a country is it (WMD's cough cough..)


U wot m8? I'm afraid I think you have completely misinterpreted me (again), because you are so obsessed with this Syria thing. My comments have been about Skripal, Litvinenko, and all the other activity attributed to Putin's regime, and why I don't trust him, or his government. And I have barely skimmed the surface in this thread of why that is. There's so much in fact, you do actually need to read whole books of it - a few choice internet articles and tv news reports just can't do it all justice.

mpd72 wrote:
Salisbury "probably" was the Ruskies, even though it happened 6 miles from the only place in the UK equiped to deal with such an attack. How nice of the Russians eh?


Tell you what, go on then. Instead of dropping hints of what you think, spell out your scenario for this. I'll read it.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Calm down chap, you'll have a heart attack Laughing


No, don't, please continue.
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 18 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

Tell you what, go on then. Instead of dropping hints of what you think, spell out your scenario for this. I'll read it.


Again? If it didn't sink in the first few times, it's hardly worth bothering.

Salisbury, Syria, it's all about 2 proposed gas pipelines to supply Europe. We don't want the Russian/Syrian one, they do. We want the Quatar/Turkish one. We have to demonise Russia and Assad and influence the civil war in Syria to stop them building the one we, the EU and the US don't want.

If you can't see through the propaganda over this, do you want to buy any magic beans?


So what you're saying is Putin is invading countries (Ukraine and Georgia) and assisting in proxy wars in the middle east while allowing and possibly even using chemical weapons on civilian populations to protect Russian state gas profits, and exert influence over Europe through his control of energy supplies?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 18 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:


Wake up sheeple. Smell the chemtrails


Yeah people, wake up.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 18 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Monkeywrencher wrote:
So what you're saying is Putin is invading countries (Ukraine and Georgia)


This will be the "invasion" where the Pro Russian former Ukrainian government decided it didn't want to be part of the EU and civil unrest followed, leading to a revolution, when a large proportion of the country are pro Russian and don't want to be any part of the EU, at a time where the EU is tiny to prise the country from Russian loyalty.


Is that true though? Thinking

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18006246

Quote:
A significant minority of the population uses Russian as its first language, particularly in the industrialised east.

Mass protests forced out pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Russian-backed separatists seize cities in the east, prompting local war.

Russian annexation of Crimea and promotion of separatism in the east put Ukraine at heart of a stand-off between Moscow and West.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 18 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeywrencher wrote:
while allowing and possibly even using chemical weapons on civilian populations


mpd72 wrote:
Shit the bed? You have proof?! Where? Better tell May, she has none.


She doesn't? Do you have proof of this?
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 18 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

It's hardly a new tactic in International politics is it? Every sodding war we enter is about oil or gas, with some lame terrorism/WMD's excuse banded over it. If you haven't worked that out by now, there is no hope.


As it ever has been, if you needed to "work it out" then I don't know what to tell you, anyone with a moderate grasp of world events can see that as plain as day.

The question is why do you want Putin, Who is playing exactly the same game as we are, to win?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 18 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

Tell you what, go on then. Instead of dropping hints of what you think, spell out your scenario for this. I'll read it.


Again? If it didn't sink in the first few times, it's hardly worth bothering.

Salisbury, Syria, it's all about 2 proposed gas pipelines to supply Europe. We don't want the Russian/Syrian one, they do. We want the Quatar/Turkish one. We have to demonise Russia and Assad and influence the civil war in Syria to stop them building the one we, the EU and the US don't want.

If you can't see through the propaganda over this, do you want to buy any magic beans?


Just for the record, I am not entirely convinced that the Douma attack was a chemical attack by the Syrian regime. I agree that the arguments against it are strong, and have yet to see evidence confirming it. That doesn't mean to say that western governments don't have stronger evidence, but the jury is still out for me. I'm just happy that the tripartite missile 'retaliation' didn't develop into a wider conflict.

What I wanted you to lay out for me was specifically how the Skripal poisoning being close to Porton Down means that it wasn't a Russian sponsored attempted killing, and exactly who and how you suggest did it? I get the impression that you mean it was done on the orders of the UK government? So how would that have played out in your view?

I would also like to know how you propose the various murders of Russian journalists, ex-intelligence agents and businessmen opposed to Putin are connected with oil and gas pipeline building in the middle East and elsewhere. Do you think that all these murders (or deaths in unexplained circumstances, if you prefer) are directly connected to it? I would like to see some examples of individuals and how the one influences the other. As I have said, Russian affairs interest me, so I would prefer to read something more in-depth than a news headline or two.

Why do we need to stop the Russians from building a pipeline through Syria? Why not just go ahead with our own preferred choice and just not 'plug in' to a Russian/Syrian one for Europe? I fully admit that I am not very conversant with the details of proposed oil and gas supply options to Europe, so perhaps you could fill me in a little, with some references I can go to, to find out more for myself (again, preferably something a little more in-depth than a couple of articles in the news media, although if they point me to further such reading, that'd be useful), and preferably also something that is not partisan within the politics of the thing, but lays out all the proposed options with their advantages and disadvantages to each party involved.

Personally, I think Russia is quite good at demonising itself on the world stage, without western aid in the matter, but I also think that if Putin is going to play hard ball, western governments are quite within their rights to respond in kind. At least I have yet to see any evidence that we carry out murders of people opposed to our views on Russian soil with agents that could potentially harm many innocent people. I know of not one case of this that the west has been accused of, and is widely reported - perhaps you know otherwise? I am happy to read such if you do.
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