Should i have indicators?

[Bubuuh]

So the question is simple should i or should i not have indicators. I looked around to see if there are any laws that actually require to have indicators for MOT and everyday use to which i found that they are not legally required but those posts were old, is this still the case?

I seem to be using them less and less as i keep commuting, only time i tend to use them is if I'm waiting in an actual intersection or maybe on a roundabout to indicate me turning off.

Whats your guys opinion on this?

Sorry if this is a silly question..

[WD Forte]

Indicators are there to let other road users know of your intentions

AFAIK
If they're fitted on a bike they have to work correctly
If not they dont

Should you have them/use them ?
That's up to you

Edit: I'd say have em and use em
Arguments can on ad nauseum but consider riding along a busy road at speed with traffic behind you and you're approaching a turn off.
Your indicators will warn others you'll probably slow down for the turn off ( we hope)
Drivers behind you will take appropriate action to avoid you as you slow down ( we hope)
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bikers smell of wee

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh-Kay.. variouse caveots and loopholes of different legislation apply here... sorry but no quick short yes/no answer.

Construction & Use Regulations require a motor-vehile sold for road use to be fitted with indicators as standard equipment, and have since some-time in the 1980's I believe.

So, before caveots the short answer is 'Yes' they are legally required.

Now the caveots; road-bikes registered before the inception date in C&U are exempt; if they weren't 'fitted' as new, then they cant be required by later legislation.... take note... if they WERE fitted as 'standard', even though then imposed C&U regs didn't demand them... removing them to pass a MOT is a 'MOD'... and technically needs declaring to the insurance co, etc.

Next caveot, is that machines sold .. and the more contentious clause.. 'or adapted' 'primarerily' for off-road use..... do not need a dull suit of street gear.

Caveot is intended for dirt-bikes used on the farm for checking live-stock in the fields and such; but the loop-hole has been stretched and applied to competition trials bikes or MX machines, or even full-on road-race or track-day 'specials' which probably do actually do more miles on road each year than off....

NOW, see comment about removing OE fit indicators technically being a Modification, and declarable to the insurer..... and SVA rules where a points system applies and enough mods can rack up enough points to demand a full re-registration, not just an MOT....

Removing indicators IS a modification from the as supplied standard when the bike was registered and declared to meet C&U regs....

MOT may not 'demand' things like mirrors or indicators or a stop-lamps... but deviate from the as supplied 'standard' in order to envoke the 'modified for primerily off-road-use' caveot, you are declaring that the machine is modified away from brochure spec, and do open that can of worms.

Small matter of what constitutes off-road use, and what constitutes 'primerily' off-road use.. is another very big can of worms!

My Seven Fifty is currently, I note, playing a shelf to a claw hammer Snowie was using to do something in the garden..... it's off-road, and it's being used... as a shelf! A-N-D that hammer has spent more hours on its luggage rack in the last week, than I have in it's saddle... is that 'primerily'? That is an argument for any coppa that wishes to dispute the validity of the loop-hole you wish to envoke... and probably loose.... I mean, how do I 'proove' that my bike has been a hammer shelf for more hours this month than it has a motorbike?.... get the idea....

Onwards... we get to the general MOT rules for the difference between 'modified' and 'broken'.

If I submitted the 750 for test having dropped it on its side and smashed both the indies on one side... and then removed the two on the other..... any half decent MOT inspector ISN'T going to say 'Fair-Play'... they'll say that the bike isn't modified, its damaged! Brochure says it should have indies, C&U regs say it should have indies, and it dont have knoblie tyres for off-road use... it's NOT been modified for such... its been broke!

To get through on that caveot, I would have to remove the indies properly, back to the mounts, and blank them mounts so its clear that they have been deliverately removed; more, general rule of MOT req's is that if fitted, whether its demanded by other regs or not, it MUST work..... take indies off, and I'd be left with a cluster switch on the throttle side, with an indicator switch in it... MOT man would twiddle the grip, flick the switch, and say what's this do then? IF fitted MUST work... and it dont do nuffink... then point at the idiot lamp on the speedo that's marked 'IND' and should flash wioth the indies.... but wouldn't either... and oh-dear... MOT regs and C&U regs call for a speedo to be fitted, so I cant just take that off....

For a more clued up, pedantic or picky tester, then, you would have to do the 'mod' properly, which would mean not just removing the indicator lamps, but the indicator switch and the tell-tale, and all markings for such.... this may mean scracking open the twist grip and physically removing the indicator switch stalk, and the speedo-casing and putting a bit of insulation tape over both the tell-tale lamp, and the printing saying what it is.

What a MOT man who isn't so pedantic, may accept knowing the real world is another matter...

As is what arguments you may have with more or less eager coppas at the road-side, who IF you try argue the 'modified for predominantly off-road-use' could have a field day, checking whether these 'Mods' are all declared to the insurance co and your insurancxe valid, as well as your right to claim the caveot asking for proof that the thing IS used off-road, and for more hours than it is on-road...

Whether any-one has actually been prosecuted under any of this red-tape, I dont know... but I do recall a clip from one of those TV reality shows with a coppa, when they stopped a chap on a track-day special, and argued at the side of the road the validity of his MOT and insurance, and ultimately called for a vehicle inspector to come out and 'examine' the thing for comolience to RTA.... until it was dark... Oh dear so sorry sunny, you'll have to get a bus home.... it has no lights and a daylight only MOT.... have a nice walk... which sort of proves, even if you hold the moral high-ground... you can still 'loose'!!!!

So, in the legal wrangling... technically NO you don't 'have' to have indies..... you can via a few caveots of legilation NOT have them.... but you ride at risk if you dont, with the risk being that road-side argument with plod... probably on a regular basis.

PRACTICALLY.. why would you NOT want indies?

Small hobby-horse, and SMIDSY is in there; idiot drivers dont look where they are going dont think, and DO react to expectations as much as anything.... "But, I didn't EXPECT any-one to be over-taking me, when I decided to turn right with out warning!".. sort of thing... and they do look for and respond to indicator lamps..... so to my mind they ARE useful... more IF you are going to have-em, they might as well BE useful, which means poking out far enough they do stand some chance of seeing them, and not missing them in the haze of a dirty headlamp, or only seeing them when they are exactly bhnind and in line cos of directional LED's.... etc etc etc

After that, if they stop a MOT man once a year having excuse to give me a fail-sheet, or get harassed by a plod who doesn't know any better.... its all good stuff and grist to the mill....

If there... if they work... no argument.....

And you don't have to use them.... look at any taxi or german blitzen-mobile..... though it IS useful.

Just as an asside.. do you know the official arm signals for turning left and right and slowing down? They used to be in the high-way code, but I'm not sure any-more... B-U-T if you don't have illuminated turn signals, or stop lamp, THIS is what you are legally required to do.... and do correctly.....

The argument for having indicators WAS made to me, when I tool the lad's moped for an MOT about ten years ago... didn't require indicators by law, for various reasons, mostly it's age... I think it was V or W reg, as in 1979 or 80 ish! I had to ride it to its MOT and ended up having an argument with a SMIDSY at a T-Junction who was jelling at me (I guess thinking I was 16!) moaning that I wasn't indicating 'right' .. and arm signals escaped him when he tries to over take me, approaching a T-Junction... "I fort you was just waving at some-one!"

Err... yeah... read the highway code.... you should have done unmpety years ago to get a licence... obviousely forgotten... a-n-d so we get down to dealing with idiots and whatever the law says, that lowest common denominator that says, PANDER TO THEM, They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

So IS it worth even trying to exploit any of the loop-holes and opening yourself up to any of the possible arguments with MOT man, with Plod, with insurance co's, with frantic SMIDSY men?

Personally.... I dont believe so, and ended up paying stupid money for OEM indies and switch cluster and clocks, for the last bike I might have blagged through, 'Just' so I didn't have to answer those stupid questions later down the line, whilst possibly bleeding!

But, your call... you CAN revive them, but you need to make it overtly deliberate, and remove switch and warning lamp as well, and remember it IS officially a modification and declare to insurance... and you may still have arguments with MOT man and or Plod and or idiot car drivers looking for lamps, IF they are looking for anything at a
all...

It 'can' be legal... whether its 'sensible' remains another very big unanswerable.

Only suggestion I can offer, is that removing totally, is probably a better bet than having slim line, mini-cators, or crappy LED's, that may practically be no more of a warning signal to anyone, and yet let you 'think' other road-users are warned 'cos you flicked a switch... and maytbe got it through an MOT.... but that's another matter, and again, If fitted, must work... may as well work 'properly' and do the job intended, as best they can... and a flapping chicken impression coming up to a junction MAY NOT tell any-one what direction you intend to go... but MIGHT make them pause wondering what the hell you are up to, whilst you do!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Ste]

tl;dr version:

[Rogerborg]

[Evil Hans]

[Bubuuh]