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DVSA Derek
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PostPosted: 08:45 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Default Speed Limit.. Reply with quote

I thought I would pop a quick post on about default speed limits. I have had a few fails this month because people have been unaware of or unable to work out the speed limit on the roads we have been on. A lot of people haven't heard of the 'default speed limit'. The default speed limit in the UK is 30, 60 or 70 mph.

It is called the default speed limit because there are no signs, except for the commencement signs (the big signs at the start of the speed limit) and thereafter the road type tells you the speed limit. If you join the road at a point after these signs there will not be any more signs telling you the limit, leaving you unsure of the speed limit or wondering if you have past a sign and not noticed. It is easy to work out if you are unsure:

The following default speed limits apply..

30 mph - A single carriageway or a dual carriageway without signs that has more than 3 street lights.
60 mph - A single carriageway without street lights.
70 mph - A dual carriageway without street lights.

Any other speed limits will have repeater signs on lamp posts or stand alone poles telling you what the limit is. Keep in mind a 'dual carriageway' is defined as having a central reservation.. so 1 lane in either direction is a dual carriageway if it has a central reservation. 2 or 3 lanes in either direction but no central reservation is a single carriageway.

I only posted this as I have had 3 or 4 fails this month directly because people have been unaware of the above - so I hope it helps someone out.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a speed awareness course a few years back, and the level of knowledge amongst the others on the course was scary.

For example more than one person thought that the national speed limit on a motorway was 50mph Brick Wall
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd actually say look for signs as a more reliable indicator. GPS can be out of date.

There are plenty of roads that should be 40 or 50 but aren't.

There are some roads in Trafford park. All of them two lane separated dual carriageways without street lights.

So you'd think 40? Or 50? Nope it's a 30mph zone. The rest of the area is a 40. There is a very small sign half way into a bush on the exit to the round about junction entering this bit.

There is always a camera van parked behind a large bush using a periscope camera too.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always amazes me that people have such low attention spans that they manage to forget the speed limit of the road their on whilst driving along it.

I've been done several times for speeding and on every occasion I knew what the speed limit of the road was, I was just choosing to ignore it....
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
I had a speed awareness course a few years back, and the level of knowledge amongst the others on the course was scary.

For example more than one person thought that the national speed limit on a motorway was 50mph Brick Wall

This would account for the heavy braking you sometimes see when they spot a speed camera. You've seen it early and maybe you just roll off to check your speed, then suddenly a car in front is hard on the brakes to lose 20-30mph quickly when it's not necessary.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I've been done several times for speeding and on every occasion I knew what the speed limit of the road was, I was just choosing to ignore it....

Is there any other way? Laughing
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is the most annoying way, which is drifting over the limit by just enough to trigger a camera while concentrating on a road sign.

Very easily done on a 100bhp+ bike it turns out.

The two times I've been caught deliberately shitting all over speed limits by actual popo with laser guns, I've got off relatively lightly. I'm sure they wouldn't have done me for 36 in a dual carriageway 30!

I hate cameras.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you should take the two stroke out more then, and not worry about missing signs with 100 horses under you that your trying to keep reigned in. Laughing

To OP, what's your thoughts on single carriageway 50mph limits? I.e. What purpose do they serve and why are they there, when road designers and local councils could have chosen to peg them as 40 or 60mph roads instead?

Personally I ignore 50 limits, except for dual carriageways with cameras etc. I see no point in 50's and see them as a nothing speed really. Especially as alot of rural 50mph bits of road are re-graded NSL roads changed in the last 10years.

I'd love to have Rogerborg access to accurate statistics to see just how much safer these 50mph routes are now, and how many accidents and lives have been saved by them?
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
It always amazes me that people have such low attention spans that they manage to forget the speed limit of the road their on whilst driving along it.

Have to admit that's me; but TBH it's more about memory than attention span. Round my way there are long stretches of rural A-roads where they drop the speed limit to 50 for no particular apparent reason, and then it goes back to the NSL - I find it easy to forget which 'zone' I'm in.

Satnav does usually provide the accurate answer though
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I think you should take the two stroke out more then, and not worry about missing signs with 100 horses under you that your trying to keep reigned in. Laughing

To OP, what's your thoughts on single carriageway 50mph limits? I.e. What purpose do they serve and why are they there, when road designers and local councils could have chosen to peg them as 40 or 60mph roads instead?

Personally I ignore 50 limits, except for dual carriageways with cameras etc. I see no point in 50's and see them as a nothing speed really. Especially as alot of rural 50mph bits of road are re-graded NSL roads changed in the last 10years.

I'd love to have Rogerborg access to accurate statistics to see just how much safer these 50mph routes are now, and how many accidents and lives have been saved by them?


The last rural 50mph I willfully ignored resulted in a NIP and a speed kills kittens course. I suspect the drop down from 60 to 50 in addition to increasing the speed tax shakedown, reduces the requirement to inspect, repair and maintain the road? Yeah yeah poor obs Rolling Eyes Hidden in a gateway part obscured by hedge and tree. Mad
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the 80s I had some bloke ring up at work and demand a letter from us saying that the Bow Flyover was a dual carriageway.

He got quite shirty when I tried to explain it was a built up area and if he had been foolish enough to be caught by the coppers who usually sat at the Stratford end of it, that wasn't going to get him out of it.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 13 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a 60 mph dual carriageway between Bath and Saltford.

I'm convinved that the BANES councellors have bought out a sign making company because there can't be a reason why otherwise.

They've had to make a 60 sign (or 5) when there's not a big difference between 70 and 60.

Oh, and don't get me started on the 50 mph Batheaston bypass....
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do know of a few 20mph areas where there is only a sign as you enter it (although at one entry point, someone has twisted the signs round on the posts so they're wrong)

There is a car hire company's depot there, not far from the station so it's possible to get off a train, walk to collect a hire car and get done for speeding as you've no way of knowing that it's not a 30mph zone

The car hire company has obviously got fed up of this, as you exit their gate there are no less than 6 signs saying "20 zone" including one that tells you that police camera vans are in the area.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I follow the Jack Burton speed limit. Laughing

https://youtu.be/bXxPsScXqLU?t=14s
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Val
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Re: Default Speed Limit.. Reply with quote

DVSA Derek wrote:


The following default speed limits apply..

30 mph - A single carriageway or a dual carriageway without signs that has more than 3 street lights.
60 mph - A single carriageway without street lights.
70 mph - A dual carriageway without street lights.



Thank you for that, I have to say the street lights rule was the most confusing rule for me coming from Europe and adapting to ride here. Highway code is not clear about 3 or more lights:

Quote:
124
You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table below). The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6


I have seen plenty of places with street lights that are not built-up areas at all and vice versa. Luckily most places do have speed signs.

In Europe the definition is clear - vilage name sign is the border of any built-up area. They have exit name signs too.

And the default speed limit rules unless there are signs are:

50 km/h (31 mph) inside any built-up areas and 90 km/h (56 mph) on any regular road outside built-up areas (not a motorway) - Germany is 100km/h
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any yet the first 1/2 mile of 30 limit coming into my home town from each end has no street lighting at all. Not even the (only) 30 limit sign is illuminated.
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Dabuke
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the 40 zones that are only marked at the beginning of the zone. I was informed when I sat my driver's education course that they are roads where there are uprights but no repeaters (the small speed signs/large ones are call signalers).

Also what about heavily populated areas where the speed is cut down to 20?
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 15 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the byways I ride have 60mph national speed limit signs at the start, and 30mph signs at the end when the tarmac starts, I doubt I could break the limit if I tried 😀
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
Some of the byways I ride have 60mph national speed limit signs at the start, and 30mph signs at the end when the tarmac starts, I doubt I could break the limit if I tried 😀


That's an overthrow from the days where there was no speed limit so it's "speed limit ends"

National speed limit was simply introduced in addition, always amusing to leave a wide flowing 40 or 50mph road (that used to be NSL and could be done without lifting off the throttle in good conditions) onto a single track lane with a NSL sign
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