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Falco
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
Falco wrote:


Not unless we have a free trade agreement with Mexico, with that being one of the negotiated terms.

Assuming a hard brexit, we'll be under WTO rules which means no tariff concessions outside of a FTA or custom union


You don't understand trade.

You dont need a free trade agreement to drop tariffs, how do you think the EU's anything but arms status works?


That's true, but only if you drop tariffs across the for every single trading partner. Is that what is being suggested? Because the EU ABA only applies to 3rd world countries, not a choice available under WTO as I understand it.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falco wrote:


That's true, but only if you drop tariffs across the for every single trading partner. Is that what is being suggested? Because the EU ABA only applies to 3rd world countries, not a choice available under WTO as I understand it.


Have you not been paying attention to the hard brexiteers?

That is exactly what they want, drop all tariffs as per most favorable nation and have a free trade bonanza.

In reality, any deal the EU has in place now, was made with us as part of the deal, and thus, will more than likely than not, be carried on with a few tweeks, possibly to quota's.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mexico paid £40[*] billion in order to secure no-tariffs, no-migrant-swarm trading status with the EU, did someone say?

No? Nobody said that. How curious. I heard that was impossible, just impossible.

[*] I'm still betting on closer to 100
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Val
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 26 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brexit the movie:

Quote:
"the accusations are beginning to fly among the co-conspirators. Someone set them up. Someone’s a rat. Someone killed people when the express rule was no killing."


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/25/brexit-boris-johnson-dominic-cummings

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 26 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominic Cummings, campaign director of Vote Leave plagiarises my insights in a both-barrels missive to Tory MPs and donors about May's betrayal and the need to get rid of her, Hammond and the Whitehall Sir Humphreys right Goddamn now.

tl;dr version - "In short, the state has made no preparations to leave and plans to make no preparations to leave even after leaving."

I'd quote more, but it really needs reading in toto, including and especially the parts about Comrades Corbyn and McDonnell only barely being kept out of Downing Street because UKIP voters backed the Tories until they see what happens with Brexit.

Again, this isn't some rage sperging journo, this is the chap that was trusted to deliver a Brexit result, and did so. Farage got the spotlight, but Cummings did the hard graft. He is not a happy chappy at all, and I believe his veiled threat is: what if I choose to do for UKIP / UKIP 2.0 what I did for Brexit?
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Val
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it gets really surreal.

Remember the UK/EU withdrawal agreement negotiations?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-european-union-michel-barnier-face-reality-uk-ecj-brussels-theresa-may-a8370471.html

There is a problem with the UK and EU agreeing on the WA governance legal framework.

Let me explain that to you in simple terms (you could not make that up).

May is asking the EU after Brexit UK to have more say on the EU laws then it currently has. But the EU must haven't any say on the UK laws.

That means all EU27 member states will have less say then UK on EU laws in the future according to May's wishes for WA. Shocked

Obviously complete nonsense and EU can't possibly agree on that.

Also whoever thinks Custom union is any solution for the UK well IHGNFY Turkey is on CU and there is a hard border between Bulgaria and Turkey. And a custom. With custom officers. There may not be import tarrifs, but there are excise duties and VAT to be paid and a lot of checks to be made. A lot of money exchange hands there. Most of custom officers there are literally millionaires.

https://i.imgur.com/YD9LxGb.jpg
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Now it gets really surreal.

Remember the UK/EU withdrawal agreement negotiations?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-european-union-michel-barnier-face-reality-uk-ecj-brussels-theresa-may-a8370471.html

There is a problem with the UK and EU agreeing on the WA governance legal framework.

Let me explain that to you in simple terms (you could not make that up).

May is asking the EU after Brexit UK to have more say on the EU laws then it currently has. But the EU must haven't any say on the UK laws.

That means all EU27 member states will have less say then UK on EU laws in the future according to May's wishes for WA. Shocked

Obviously complete nonsense and EU can't possibly agree on that.

Also whoever thinks Custom union is any solution for the UK well IHGNFY Turkey is on CU and there is a hard border between Bulgaria and Turkey. And a custom. With custom officers. There may not be import tarrifs, but there are excise duties and VAT to be paid and a lot of checks to be made. A lot of money exchange hands there. Most of custom officers there are literally millionaires.

https://i.imgur.com/YD9LxGb.jpg


Shithouse remainers have been going around saying the Customs union will solve the Irish border. when it does very little, no doubt i could quote you saying it did, until the EU did a little slide last week saying the CU does nothing of the sort...

i do love how remainers are still learning about what they signed us up to.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
May is asking the EU after Brexit UK to have more say on the EU laws then it currently has.

Leaving aside the usual spin in your summaries, wouldn't it simply go some way to putting the UK on a par with Canada in terms of its relations with the EU. Not perfect but maybe the best we can expect now, and not at all surreal.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-what-is-a-canada-style-trade-deal-11096397
Quote:
Michel Barnier claimed the UK's decision to leave the EU's single market and customs union means any future trade relationship will "have to work on a model that is closer to the agreement signed with Canada".

Quote:
CETA does not oblige Canada to pay into the EU budget, sign up to the bloc's four freedoms (such as free movement), or abide by European Court of Justice (ECJ) rulings.

Trade disputes under CETA will instead be judged by a permanent tribunal body.

This is in contrast to other countries' agreement with the EU, such as Norway or Switzerland, who have accepted some obligations in terms of money, free movement rights or ECJ jurisdiction in exchange for near full access to the single market.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A senior EU official (who sadly I cannot name because they speak with a clarity and straightforwardness all too rare in the Brexit saga) has just given one of the best descriptions of the EU and why it behaves the way it does I've ever heard. Simple, concise, and to the point.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd-qpgzWkAEoef_.jpg:large

And yet we're told, the EU means peace , the above quote doesn't give me much faith in that,the divisions have never be healed, really.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Val wrote:
May is asking the EU after Brexit UK to have more say on the EU laws then it currently has.

Leaving aside the usual spin in your summaries, wouldn't it simply go some way to putting the UK on a par with Canada in terms of its relations with the EU. Not perfect but maybe the best we can expect now, and not at all surreal.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-what-is-a-canada-style-trade-deal-11096397
Quote:
Michel Barnier claimed the UK's decision to leave the EU's single market and customs union means any future trade relationship will "have to work on a model that is closer to the agreement signed with Canada".

Quote:
CETA does not oblige Canada to pay into the EU budget, sign up to the bloc's four freedoms (such as free movement), or abide by European Court of Justice (ECJ) rulings.

Trade disputes under CETA will instead be judged by a permanent tribunal body.

This is in contrast to other countries' agreement with the EU, such as Norway or Switzerland, who have accepted some obligations in terms of money, free movement rights or ECJ jurisdiction in exchange for near full access to the single market.

The thing is, and Eu lovers wont admit it, the EU is ceding influence to global bodies all the time, The Chinese are setting their own standards increasingly more, and when it comes to markets, the Chinese have more consumers, so more and more businesses will align themselves to that market, than a pip squeak like the Eu.
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kippyzona
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should we introduce our own sized pallet and shipping containers?
Obviously any conformity anywhere in the world is silly.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

kippyzona wrote:
Should we introduce our own sized pallet and shipping containers?
Obviously any conformity anywhere in the world is silly.


Don't we already have that with the 120 x 100, whereas the Euros are 120 x 80?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deport Val.

Build the wall.

???

Dance!
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Val
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
A senior EU official (who sadly I cannot name because they speak with a clarity and straightforwardness all too rare in the Brexit saga) has just given one of the best descriptions of the EU and why it behaves the way it does I've ever heard. Simple, concise, and to the point.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd-qpgzWkAEoef_.jpg:large

And yet we're told, the EU means peace , the above quote doesn't give me much faith in that,the divisions have never be healed, really.


Are you actually saying it's fine for the UK to have its own rule of law based system, but it is not fine for the EU?

Since when it is a news that EU is a system based on the rule of law not on imaginary unicorns?

Yes peace is based on rule of law and equality for all - that is what build trust.

Hence whatever UK wants based on its own exceptionalism means the only way to achieve that is to destroy EU. You can understand why EU27 can't accept that.

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Val wrote:
May is asking the EU after Brexit UK to have more say on the EU laws then it currently has.

Leaving aside the usual spin in your summaries, wouldn't it simply go some way to putting the UK on a par with Canada in terms of its relations with the EU. Not perfect but maybe the best we can expect now, and not at all surreal.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-what-is-a-canada-style-trade-deal-11096397


My picture shows exactly where the UK will be on 29th March 2019. Anything is possible afterwards.

CETA took 7 years to agree. Yes the UK can have something like CETA in 2026? I have read EU negotiation guideleines - they clearly say the actual future trade agreement negotiations will start only after 2019 when the UK is 3rd country, and UK and EU sign Withdrawal agreement first.

Then EU Parliament must debate and ratify the WA.

Then we can have negotiations. Laughing
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Val
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:

Shithouse remainers have been going around saying the Customs union will solve the Irish border. when it does very little, no doubt i could quote you saying it did, until the EU did a little slide last week saying the CU does nothing of the sort...

i do love how remainers are still learning about what they signed us up to.


I don't see how CU can resolve NI border isssue at all. No doubt you can't quote me saying it did.

The only workable solution so far is the backstop that May already has signed.

The problem is EU understanding is the backstop solution will apply to NI only which means a sea border between NI and Britain.

May actually wants backstop solution to apply to the whole of the UK. That is basically SM without ECJ and FoM. Already rejected by the EU many times.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:

Shithouse remainers have been going around saying the Customs union will solve the Irish border. when it does very little, no doubt i could quote you saying it did, until the EU did a little slide last week saying the CU does nothing of the sort...

i do love how remainers are still learning about what they signed us up to.


I don't see how CU can resolve NI border isssue at all. No doubt you can't quote me saying it did.

The only workable solution so far is the backstop that May already has signed.

The problem is EU understanding is the backstop solution will apply to NI only which means a sea border between NI and Britain.

May actually wants backstop solution to apply to the whole of the UK. That is basically SM without ECJ and FoM. Already rejected by the EU many times.


So how does Jersey get away with it?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2018/02/14/britains-best-brexit-bet-is-the-jersey-option/


The EU can have red lines on what it likes, but it's a negotiation and everything is on the table.

Mr Barnier said in his speech the other day that he wants the ECJ to oversee the transitional period, i dunno if he's stupid or just plain arrogant, we're coming up to some deadlines real fast and he knows that won't be accepted, so i can see a hard brexit on the horizon.
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Last edited by Rob Fzs on 17:35 - 27 May 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
A senior EU official (who sadly I cannot name because they speak with a clarity and straightforwardness all too rare in the Brexit saga) has just given one of the best descriptions of the EU and why it behaves the way it does I've ever heard. Simple, concise, and to the point.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd-qpgzWkAEoef_.jpg:large

And yet we're told, the EU means peace , the above quote doesn't give me much faith in that,the divisions have never be healed, really.


Are you actually saying it's fine for the UK to have its own rule of law based system, but it is not fine for the EU?

Since when it is a news that EU is a system based on the rule of law not on imaginary unicorns?

Yes peace is based on rule of law and equality for all - that is what build trust.

Hence whatever UK wants based on its own exceptionalism means the only way to achieve that is to destroy EU. You can understand why EU27 can't accept that.

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Val wrote:
May is asking the EU after Brexit UK to have more say on the EU laws then it currently has.

Leaving aside the usual spin in your summaries, wouldn't it simply go some way to putting the UK on a par with Canada in terms of its relations with the EU. Not perfect but maybe the best we can expect now, and not at all surreal.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-what-is-a-canada-style-trade-deal-11096397


My picture shows exactly where the UK will be on 29th March 2019. Anything is possible afterwards.

CETA took 7 years to agree. Yes the UK can have something like CETA in 2026? I have read EU negotiation guideleines - they clearly say the actual future trade agreement negotiations will start only after 2019 when the UK is 3rd country, and UK and EU sign Withdrawal agreement first.

Then EU Parliament must debate and ratify the WA.

Then we can have negotiations. Laughing


What a bizarre little comment, the EU seems to be built on paranoia
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
i can see a hard brexit on the horizon.

You don't see May crumbling and begging for a last second deal, any deal, she'll rinse the British taxpayers for anything they want, just please, please, don't change anything or force her to make a decision.

That's pretty much all I can see happening, based on what's (not) happened so far.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


That's pretty much all I can see happening, based on what's (not) happened so far.


There could also be another election before the end of the year.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:


That's pretty much all I can see happening, based on what's (not) happened so far.


There could also be another election before the end of the year.


I cant see the point, what would change?

Corbyn has no brexit position and he doesn't want to remain in the single market because teh rules it covers stops him requisitioning assets from people (the rich)
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Labour wanted to stay in the customs union?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
There could also be another election before the end of the year.

Would the turkeys vote for Christmas again so soon?
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