Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


My indicator lights are on drugs.

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

BananaLover
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 08 May 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:48 - 22 May 2018    Post subject: My indicator lights are on drugs. Reply with quote

Problem - Indicator lights are out of sync. Half are on crack or something, blinking at least 2x the normal rate. The other one stays on permanently.

It's really strange, let me go into detail:
Some time ago I noticed my right front indicator was blinking faster than the other (which worked as expected), not having much time on my hands I ignored the problem. Yesterday I had to do some work on the bike and I noticed that the front right indicator stays on, it looks like it tried to blink but just for a milisecond. The rear right indicator doesn't blink at all. However, the left side (that used to work fine) blinks 2x the rate. So basically left side blinks at a rapid pace, front right stays on and rear right stays off.

I checked the rear right (the one that doesn't turn on) and the bulb looked like it was fine. Just in case I disconnected the rear side from power and the issue persists on the front. (I read that one light going out could have caused this but not the case I guess)

I also swapped front indicator wires to see if it was the indicator but it worked the same just in reverse. (so not indicator's fault)

I'm about to mess with the indicator relay following a tutorial on youtube, but from what I've heard it doesn't seem like the relays fault because the issue isn't the same for both indicators on the right side. (maybe two issues at once, relay and bulb?) I don't know much about electrics if at all, all ideas are welcome.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:00 - 22 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If something flashes, then it wont be a problem with the flasher unit.

There are two types of flasher unit; electro-mechanical, that are a sort of relay that switches itself 'off' when it's switched on, to make the output 'flash'. Flash rate is set by the weight of springs pulling the contacts back and forth, and the 'load' on the relay by way of the bulb-wattage. Other is a 'solid-state' or electronic flasher; uses transistors and a chrystal like a digital watch to do the same thing; but spared springs and things, is not load dependent, flash rate is fixed by the chrystal, so is constant.

In an indy circuit, you have two indicators bulbs taking power from the one flasher. If one bulb blows, the current draw throgh the flasher is halved, so if you have an electro-mech flasher, it will tend to flash twice as fast....

is there a Idea happening anywhere yet?

Sysmptoms described suggest you have an electro-mech flasher unit, and its sort of doing what an electro-mech flasher unit is expected to do.

The bulb you are convinced isn't blown.... because you looked at it?!?!? Might be.. might not be... TEST IT! Get a bit of wire and connect it direct to the battery. Or use a multi-meter on continuity.... 'ohms' setting, to see if electric passes through the fillement... you cant always 'see' if a filiment, inside a bulb is broken or not.

As described, it 'sounds' like a dodgy connection or earth...... new bulbs, clean contacts in the holder; check the wires, check the earths, clean earth points on the frame....

See what happens.

Electric is not all that mysteriouse, it doesn't do 'random', it just follows wires.... that's what you got to do to fix it... logically... not with random, not with guess-work, and NOT with even more random effin You-Tube vids!!!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

BananaLover
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 08 May 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:21 - 22 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:

is there a Idea happening anywhere yet?

There is not.

I disconnected the back or a while while trying to locate the relay, turns out I don't have one. Probably the reason rear light went kaput even though it was few months old. So after being disconnected for a while both started blinking once tested instead of just one. When I plugged it back in and left alone for 20 min issue returned, however this time once I disconnected rear both front ones freeze during signal test (used to be the same issue, no change) maybe because the key was in as I unplugged it.

Has to be the bulb, I still don't understand why disconnecting the back doesn't check for bulb being the cause. And why the lights act so strange.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

BananaLover
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 08 May 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:17 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I removed the rear fender and found that the wire leading to the light itself had snapped. Explains the initial problems with indicators. After fixing it the right indicator behaves correctly, except all indicators are 2x the pace. And I don't have an indicator relay...

What could be the issue now?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:34 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
So I removed the rear fender and found that the wire leading to the light itself had snapped. Explains the initial problems with indicators. After fixing it the right indicator behaves correctly, except all indicators are 2x the pace. And I don't have an indicator relay...

What could be the issue now?


You must have something to make it flash or it would be on all the time.

Anyway, basics first, what bike is it?
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:01 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the indicators led or bulb?
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

BananaLover
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 08 May 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:18 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


You must have something to make it flash or it would be on all the time.

Anyway, basics first, what bike is it?


dragstar 650, front ones are led rear are bulb. Both are custom.

I looked in the manual and the place where my relay indicator is supposed to be is here -> https://i.imgur.com/bedpYSl.jpg
instead those wires there are looped or something. At first I thought it was in a different place or my bikes previous owner was being silly but I checked my mates bike (he has the same model, different year) his istuation is the same.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:11 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take one of the bulb ones and put in in place of the led ones. Then test that side.

If it works properly it's because you have led indicators where the system is expecting bulbs.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:54 - 27 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Take one of the bulb ones and put in in place of the led ones. Then test that side.

If it works properly it's because you have led indicators where the system is expecting bulbs.


If this proves the case, then you can either fit bulbs all round or replace the electromechanical flasher relay with an electronic one - they're not load dependent.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:54 - 28 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
And I don't have an indicator relay...

BananaLover wrote:
front ones are led rear are bulb.


Regs require indies to flash between fixed rates, I think its once a second or 1Hz.

Ways you could make that happen are myriad, but the single flasher unit is by far the most usual....

Clever electrickery means you can actually buy 'component' LED's that do flash without a separate flasher unit.... I have some in the theater lights on my stairs!?!? They change colour too! They're actually a composite device, though, an LED is a Light Emitting Diode... the flashing ones, have control Chrystal and transistor etched on the same substrate as the diode, hence a compound 'component'.

Problem with them as far as indicators are concerned though is that C&U and MOT regs demand that indicators not only flash at set rate, but also that 'all' indicator lamps flash in unison; if you have effectively separate flasher units for individual lamps, then its much harder to ensure they do flash together, and just a small difference in timing of one flasher-controller compared to another can get add up to a big out of sync... use single flasher, no problem, all are synced to the source signal.

Polarbear wrote:
You must have something to make it flash or it would be on all the time.

There HAS to be 'something' making indies flash, and if you have bulbs in the back, then cant be using compound-LED's, there MUST be a flasher unit somewhere.

BananaLover wrote:
Both are custom.


Rather nebulouse and over-used term 'custom'.... especially when applied to a stock-catalogue over the counter motorcycle 'style', which ISN'T a 'custom' its a standard catalogue model!

Off the peg, or after-market lamps and the like, are likewise probably not really 'custom'.. they are just not 'standard' to that catalogue-standard motorcycle...

'Custom' strictly means bespoke built to 'Customer' specifications, not 'standard' catalogue ones.....

I have made 'custom' indicators for various bikes, to my own specifications, using component LED's or bulbs; lenses and holders, and brackets etc, and then making my own 'custom' wiring to make them work... they were most decidedly not off the peg after-market 'alternative' standard lamps.... but how far do you go before a standard-catalogue motorcycle can be properly described as a 'custom'?

Knowing blokes that have scratch built frames around a highly modified engine, Some-one chucking some off-the-shelf e-bay-tat or waving a rattle can over at an otherwise brochure 'standard' motorcycle, does NOT make it a 'custom', and is rather demeaning to the true 'custom' builder... but still...

Indies are erratic....

Back to top...

You MUST have a flasher-unit.. go find it.... but indies flash... so its probably not faulty.

You have NON-STANDARD indicators front and rear... LED 'arrays' I will assume, in the front.... and tungsten-fillement bulbs in the back....

This aint going to help matters.... with a conventional electro-mech flasher unit, original post implies you DO have some-where on the bike, the flash-rate is wattage dependent.

If LED arrays have been fitted in the front, they will almost certainly have a far lower wattage than the original bulbs..... at the back, who knows.... likely that an after-market accessory 'mini' indy will have a lower wattage bulb in it.. who knows what any of themn would do to the flash-rate....

A-N-D.... the low-rent answer to a load-dependent LED indy is the use of 'ballast resistors'.. that do not a lot but draw watts, to briung the load on a circuit back up to that of the original bulbs, and get the desired flash rate back.....

This than demands that original wiring be chopped to splice the ballast resistors into it... there may be one for each indicator lamp, or there may be one for the entire circuit... depends who did it, and what they thought 'easiest'.....

But means that wiring is likely to have been cobbled by some-one in the past.... a-n-d more low-rent practice is to use cheap and nasty Halfords Odd-Pack crimpy connectors, probably fitted to wiring with a horrible pair of plate steel stripping/crimping pliers.. or worse... whatever pliers or hammer and brick were to hand at the time.... or worse, twisting wires together and maybe covering with insulation tape.

Risking Polarbear's wrath, ISTR he has defended crimpy-connectors many times in the past..... but I still cant stand the ruddy things, and HATE with a loathing, the cheap-and-nasty odd-pack types so commonly used, where not even fitted with proper care and attension and a decent crimping tool... they ARE a problem looking for a place to happen.....

BUT we are back to advice at the start..... it's your bike, its your problem, you got to fix it.... GO CHASE WIRES!!!!

Check contacts in the bulbs, CHECK bulbs... PROPERLY, look for the obvious and common niggles and bodges like in-line ballast resistors and chit-crimp connectors and or wads of twisty-tape joints.... find them earth points, make sure they actually making an earth connection, and aren't broken or rusted to heck, or again, cobbled up with a crimped on ring connection on a rusty wood-screw.

Flasher unit! As has been said there MUST be one, some-where, and it would SEEM to be doing its job.. lamps... like-wise you have some... and if they light, tha'ts all they do... Switch, turns them on and off, thats all IT does... these devices SEEM to have been eliminated as cause of problem, so it HAS to be in the wires... GO CHECK!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 5 years, 306 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.12 Sec - Server Load: 0.32 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 79.79 Kb