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| Sandledtub12 |
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Sandledtub12
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| c_dug |
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c_dug
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| Kentol750 |
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Kentol750
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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 Posted: 02:15 - 09 Jun 2018  Post subject: |
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Well, rather than planning to sell on, tell us what your budget is... I'll pm you my pay-pal details, and you can drop 3x your budget in there.. and then you can say "Thank-you! You have saved me soooo much hassle and pain and money"... oh kay? lol
Seriousely, there's far too many folk out there that think that customs and classics are their road to riches, who will pay dar too much for a pile of rusty chit. that they will spend far too much on doing a cheque-book resto and expect to sell on for a profit.....
It don't work like that... and at best, IF you pick one of the bikes that might flog for big money IF done, and IF done to a standard that commands money put in it.... and IF you are a bvit savvy alonmg the way... you 'MAY', and its a big may stacked on a house of cards of 'ifs' you might just about cover the cost of parts.... you will not likely pay yourself anything like your normal hourly rate for the risk, the hassle the hurt, the dirt and the time... take heed.
Say to Newbies looking to learn to ride, that the benchmark bike is a Yamaha YBR125 at 3-4 years old, but bikes the last thing you need.
For a resto..... the bench mark is a Unit construction Triumph T120 Bonaville or chrome mudguard Honda CB750K0 or K1. they are the ones folk know, that folk value, that are common as muck, and have as much support for by way of spares and specialists to 'help' you finish the job.
THAT is the big question... whether you will even get the job finished... look on ebay look in the back of the mags, 9 out of 10 projects just dont.. then work the odds of how many of the ones that DO get finished, are in anyway as imagined at the start, and how many dont cost more to finish than they are worth on open market.
Say it time and again, but You DONT do this sort of thing for the money, you do it PURELY for the love.. whether that's the simple joy of turning a pile of scrap metal, any-one else would melt down for to make washing-machines, alone, or to make something at the end you simply could not buy.. but either way, the value is in the doing...
Moral:
.... so you pick the bike YOU would like to own and ride when it's done
Its as simple as that. There's no right answer, no wrong answer no good suggestion, no bad suggestion.. its up to YOU.
Your project, your money, your time, your risk... pick the bike YOU would like to build...
Whether that's a concourse show-standard every-bolt authentic 1930's Rudge or a cut-down raked out 1970's Vespa, or anything in between, its up to you... its YOUR project.
Do you have a full bike licence?
What would you like to ride to work or on a sunny sunday?
What 'could' you get some use out of? Or would you be better off picking something purely for static display in your hallway?
For a first time, project....
Notions, and they are just notions, that you want to pick something 'simple', to stand best chance of seing it through; that you want to pick something 'cheap' so you stand best chance of funding it to completion.... are all plans of mice and men, that go out the window when you actually start twiddling spanners....
And, of that 1 in 5 or 1 in 1 projects that ever do get to something resembling 'finished'... after the first 'Oh my Gawd it WORKS!!!" ride.. that I have to say, has in twenty five years never got 'old' for me... if you take the folk who tall you how brilliant it is to do 'project bikes'.. you dont have to scrap much veneer off the top of thier enthusiasm for their creation, to get to something a bit closer to the truth, when they start telling you what they shouod have done, or what they wished they had done, and what they hope top do next time.... because, that's the nature of the game..
Sooooooo you fly a desk and don't get your hands dirty anymore, and think this would be a good way to keep your eye in... and that you can build 'something' with even more optimistic ideas that thing might be a custom, Cafe-Racer or Brat-Chop 'special' with some custom ideas chucked in.... and sell it on to fund doing another......
Err... yeah...... first words of wisdom.. get them ideas WELL out of your head....
Folk spend thousands every year to dangle a bit of string in a lake to try and out-wit a fish, that even if the win, they likely wont even eat, and just chuck back! And they call that 'fun'?!?!? Others spend as much or more every year on green fees to go ruin a nice walk in teh country, as Churchill said, knocking a plastic ball around trying to loose it down a rabbit hole.... what do they expect, the march hair and the mad hatter to pop out and chuck it back? I REALLY dont get these things....
But then, the folk that do them would probably look at my collection of old Honda 125 Super-Dreams and other old scrap, and say the same, and wonder why I wast just as much time, and probably as much money doing something just as futile.....
Now... the little super-Dreams I blame squarely on my other half Snowie... she wanted to do one to get her motorbike licence on... and left me to pick the pieces.....
Twenty years ago, though, in a similar situation to you, I was flying a desk; the road-bike had to be parked up 'cos "Kids" and commuting was killing it....
I had, in the shed, though my Montesa Cota 248 trials bike, that I have owned since 1986, when its first and only 'Daylight' MOT had just expired, and bought to do competition trials on, before I was even old enough to have a moped on the road.... that had, for over a decade been thrashed, trashed and abused, doing the occasional gypsy trial with whatever club I could find hosting something not too far away, I might get to.... and had been torn down and fully rebuilt, at least three times then! so I did sort of know its mechanics pretty well.
So, I made decision, to do over, tear it down, completely renovate it, and do at least one full season with just one club, given that at that point they had created a class for the old T-Shock trials bikes it could be entered in.....
And despite spousal approval and dissaproval, changing with the wind, or more often... that is what I did.
Thing is.. I had the bike to start with, saving that choice; I knew who to go to for the bits, saving a lot of searching, I knew the mechanics, saving even more... and I had a reason to do it... to go trialzin... and that reason, gave the bike a purpose, and kept the remit relatively tight and kept 'silly ideas' in check... I was not going to be having daft ideas of PIR headlamp conversions, or mono-shock conversions, or giving it ape-hanger handle-bars!
THAT 'reason' then steered the renovation; finished bike had to meet the regs for class, and be trials worthy, it had to work, and work well, pretty paint and fancy accessories wouldn't help that, so what money and effort was chucked at it got put into replacing bearings and oiling cables etc, not pin-striping on the petrol tank, or hand-stitching the saddle....
When done.... end result even managed to take me to a class win in one event..... in however many full seasons with two clubs.....
A-N-D I have a folder upstars some-where with all entry and results sheets in it, that probabloy has a few reciepts from Sammy Miller Spares... that represent about 1/10th of what I spent just on the bike, let alone getting to and taking part in the events!
But what the heck... I could have spent more money dangling a bit of string in a pond catching nothing but a cold.....
SO!!!!!!!
IS this how you REALLY want to spend your leisure time and money?
If so... pick whatever takes your fancy that you think you can get the value from in the doing and after in the using.
If you aren't going to get the pleasure from it, it will NOT be worth the doing, and given the liklihood that the thing, even with the odds stacked in your favour, picking a more popular machine people might pay good money for when done, and doing it to the book 'standard' that they are most likely to want and pay for... you barely stand a chance of breaking even.. let alone paying for the skinned knuckles..... it will just NOT be worth the doing... you may as well go dangle a bit of string in a polluted canal.... it will be just as frustrating, just as miserable, but you likely wont loose heart so quick, or waste as much money along the way.....
SO... ball back in your court.... start with a project brief... what would you like at the end.... something to stick on display in your hallway? something to go down the pub on a sunny sunday afternoon? something to go enter in concourse shows? something to stick round a track in classic competition, WHAT?
It would be like asking what airfix model we think you should make... a tank, a plane, a car, a 00 scale railway station!!! There IS no answer... its your call.
And if you have no railway set, a 00-cale railway station probably isn't much use to you; if you have no interest in WWII tanbks, why make one, so will a spitfire on a plastic stand look good on your desk?
That is the way you need to be thinking.
You start with the idea, you look at both ends, go round the circle, asking quations and deciding if the idea has any merit, and change the remit a bit to come up with a spec that is achieveable; they you go around the loop again, looking at the details, changing the plan to suit, then put it into action... pays your money and takes your chances.. get the bike YOU think you would kike to do, that stands best chance of being done... and then start going round the loop again, and again and again, resolving the unseen, the problems, adapting and clarifying to get closer to the goal,,, you set NOW.. which has to be clear, and near cast in stone, and kept in sight at all times IF you want any chance of seeing it through and achieving something even close to what you hope.
That is aboutr the onbly real advice I can offer; start with a clear idea of what you want to achieve, and stick to your objectives; if half wayu through, DONT change the goal.
Eg: you start out to do a concourse resto, but find half way through that there is something critical, like say an air-boxc you cant get for love nor money; you dont suddenly decide, well.. Oh kay, we can live without the air-box, use a cone filter, and hmm... its not concourse any-mnore, and exhausts are expensive, I'll build a chopper.....
You get into that sort of game, the project goes off track; every time you get stuck, or hit a problem, changes direction, and you end up with something that is neither nor; bits here and there are done to concourse, bits there are done like a chopper; bits over there, are done like a dirt bike, and NOTHING really works or fits together, and what you end up with, if it gets finished doesn't fullful any real purpose or deliver the fun in the riding, cos its painful to ride.
B-U-T all starts at the beginning... its YOUR project, check dictionary defanition; that is a defined endevour of whatever YOU wish to do.. no one wlse can do the defining for you; you have to do it. And THAT if anything is the key... defining what you want to do, making a plan and sticking to your guns not chopping and changing until you realise goals.
You want advice for a first timer; keep it simple, keep it standard; work to the book,; rather than trying to re-write it.
Dont have any daft ideas that its going to be 'cheap' or easy, or 'quick'.
It will almost certainly take three times as much money as you originally plan, times the space, and ten times the time....
So make your plan flexible, and give yourself lea-way for this sort of over-run.
Look in profile, you will see pretty detail threads on at least two of my projects, an air-cooled Yamaha DT12/75 mono-shock, which was originally supposed to be a low rent pocket money project and was far from it; another Honda 125 superDream done as a 'Watch and Do' example for Snowie, who did her own, also linked on another thread. Off Snowies profile, probably linked from her 'Pup' project is her having a crack at rebovating a MotoGuzzi 750 after she had passed tests, I hindered with and put up with its gearbox on my kitchen side!!!!
Should be plenty of inspiration there; and even more in the threads in show and tell... which is worth a look at how many end abruptly, often after little more than an optimistic intro, and some photo's of old scrap, we never see turned into anything resembling a working motorbike..... whether they want to build a concourse Classic out of a Bantum or a Cafe--Brat-Chop out of a Shinrey chinky CG clone.....
That is where you probably should start, and noting just how many 'projects' get started... and so few 'fininshed'... you have been warned.
NOT the answer you were hoping for, I am sure.... but sorry....
Me, I would do another Honda CB125 Twin.... mainly 'cos that's what I got. Or a Montesa Cota 248... cos thats also wot I got.... or a VF1000 cos thats another wot I got... and I'm a glutton for punishment..... none of which are particularly sensible... not that any project ever is; so what the heck... how many quick do you want to chuck down the drain.... or transfer into my Pay-Pal.....
Its your call... give us some better idea of your budget and aspirations, and we might be able to advice or steer... BUT its ultimately down to you.... remember, three times, five times, ten times, money, space and time, let alone the hassle.... its not 'sensible' and whatever you pick and however you tackle it, all you will ever manage to do is make it a bit less daft.....
Would you rather be fishing? that is the question.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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| Posted: 03:30 - 09 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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| c_dug wrote: | In terms of mechanical simplicity, you can't get any easier than an air cooled single cylinder two stroke. |
Twenty years ago, that's exactly what I would have said.
And in fact, right up until ten years ago, was still saying.... B-u-t....
They haven't made any really for two decades, far too many have been hack-and-wreckered to oblivion in the intervening on ideas they are 'sooo-simple' and more they are easy to tune, and make a great starter bike.... which they may have done.... thirty years ago.
Now... for a low rent, as easy as you might make it base, I would likely be steering some-one towards something CG-ish... whether a genuine Honda CG that may sell on the cult status when done for not so great a loss, or a derivative like the XR125 dirt donk, if not too field-biked.
I'd avoid the Chinky clones and copies and derivatives.... they have never been desirable or valuable.... and takes as much or more time cost and hassle to renovate one as a genuine Honda that stands much better chance of being worth a fraction of whats put in to do it.... but provided you dont expect to buy bits like for a Ford Escort by make, model year at a conveniently local dealers or motorfactors.... they do benefit from sooooooo many of the parts being made for the chinky clones and derivatives in china, and on ebay, which can be substituted for so much less money than trying to special order from Franchise Honda or old-Hondaz--iz-uz... (Dave Silver Spares!o!) Might make a good donor bike if you can pick up a reletively complete and preferably running one without MOT for pennies, though.
Honda H100? thier air-cooled two-smoke commuter... in many ways better bike than the CG... and oh-so-simple to work on... but even though the thing had cult status in Germany, and there's a lot of support and even tuning goodies for them there, still a more awkward one to try tackle.
Suzuki GP100/125? I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Just too many bits of unobtainium and far too many examples hack-and wreckered.
Yamaha RXS100.. yamaha's offering.... has something of a cult status, if you put in the leg work, and find the interchangeable bits from DT100's and TY80-'s and the like, you stand a reasonable chance with one, but I know for a fact that there are bits of unobtanium in there like seat bases, and chrome mudguards are only closest match from 'universal' pattern spares.
My favourite, would have been the Kawasaki KH100/125, disc valved made for many years with little change, in 6v and 12v form.... But now I would now be very sanguine at the suggestion; too many bits of unobtanium in there, and not even the support or cross-model compatibility that the RXS has.
The eLCies.. Hohda NS/NSR, & MTX, Yamaha TZR & DT, Kawasaki AR, KMX and ???I'm sure there were 2 LC 125 dirt derivatives) Farr too many hack--and-wreckered trying to kiddie go kwik, more fiel bikes thrashed to death, and plenty sold without log books or number plates that are probably nicked. I wouldn't touch or reccomend any of the dirt bikes for those sort of reasons, before the complexity of the watercooled and oft power valved engines, and on things like the NS/R nikasil chrome cylinders, which now so old, and so desirable for so long, are a minefield, with the googlie of so many Italian grey imports and non UK models chucked into teh mix.
DAFTLY... I would actually be far more endeared by the suggestion of a Vespa PX125... Scootah boy round the corner hates them because of the nikasil chrome bore and ill adviced attemps by twits to tune them; but they had a pretty long contentious production run and rather like the CG, many clones and copies made in India, providing pool of relatively cheap bits.. and the tin-work, if you get handy with dollies and a MIG covers so many 'crimes'.. and like 750-fours or Z1's or Meriden Bonnies, but probably more so... they sell for good money on being a real-deal scooter like the Mods, and being a 125 any duffer with a car licence might ride on CBT and L'S
Given my preferences, though If I had a clean sheet of paper, and the inclination, which I did when snowie got all enthusiastic about it, would be an Air-Cooled Yamaha TY.. probably a TY175 trials bike. simple single cylinder, air-cooled engine, but another incredibly long production history little changed from teh mid 70's until the late 80's early 90's. There's bugger all to them in trials trim to demand much attention... just two wheels an engine a pair of forks and a pair of shock absorbers, really.. I've worked on more sophisticated mopeds! A-N-D incredibly well supported via Yam-bits or the old trials iron emporiums... A-N-D wait there's more... in built reason and use pitting one in action in classic T-Shock trials when done. Barn-finds and scrub-ups tend to be priced a bit optimistically, but raggy trialed examples come up slightly more reasonably, if not cheaply, that do offer something worth the tackling likely maybe not to be worth as much money as you'd likely sink into one, but at least stand a good chance of being worth close to what you spend, especially if you keep it strictly 'functional' as a competition renovation rather than go over board on cosmetics for concourse dreams... and plenty of chance to get lots of cheap fun from when done, throwing round a quarrey in classic comp every other week-end for absolute peanuts... cheaper than insuring a moped it is!
In the big-bike arena? Its a huge arena, and theres far too many optimists trying to flog any old tat on aspirations of 'rare and desirable classic' or 'ideal Brat-Chop-Basis'.
In the last decade or so, the 200-400 arena has been picked bare by 33bhp restricted licence holders, and bikeshed geek0nick optimists. Things like Honda ~25N super-Dreams got daft decades ago, with teen-revival optimists, trying to scrub up things that has spent twenty years being ridden into the ground by despatchers or daily commuters, and theres far too much pretily painted scrap out there.
The 400 'Super-Sports' of the late 80's and 90's are anothoer definite no-go zone. Most came to the UK as scrap from Japan where punative tax laws to support the domestic manuafacturers encouraged them to write them off. coming here as 'cheap' supersports for folk that couldn't afford 600s they were often thrashed into the ground trying to keep up with the 600's, then bodged to death with improvised rapairs when bits were found not to be the same as the few genuine UK models or 600's or just completely unobtainable... and those folk that revere them took first pick in the breakers......
Which leads into the 'Japanese Classics' and things like original GPz600's... which are a wonderful bit of history, but to my mind a nightmare to try and restore with so much model specific plastic, and 16" wheels you have almost no choice of tyres for. Early CBR600's pretty similar... find one ethat hasn't been badly 'street-fightered'..... like a 600 Bandit lacking anodised 'bling' or ranthal handlebars!
A Yamaha XJ600 diversion, is a pretty safe bet.... cos of how common it was... but equally how un-valuable and un-saught after... you can likely find a near mint example that has lived most of its life in a garage waiting for a Sunny day, and for less money than trying to fix up an ex-school hack dropped by every DAS student asked to tackle an e-stop!
And the big bike market, in general, only venerates the bikes that were popular when new, that were must have icons... like the early slabside ray-gun exhaust GSXR's... find one with a full set of plastics and original exhsaust... not in a museum!!! Or launch year '93 fire-Blades... not foxeyes, or or or... and so it goes on, and you are in a mire where unless its a minter to negin with, you are goinhg to struggle trying to sort cracked or faded plastics and ideas of street-fightering... and suddenly genuine Z1's and CBX1000 'six' start to look viable ecconomical projects..... and alternatives just that... cheap because they just aren';t the bike you or any-one else really wants.....
In the 125 arena, you do at least have a double or tripple bite at the cherry, that folk can still ride them on CBT and L's increasing the target market to punt one on; you have the nostalgia relive or 2nd chance teen-dreams to sell to, a-n-d you have the chance that there are so many more of them, if so many more in more dire state... but usually that much more simple to tackle.. if you apply a bit of common, and dont pick anything with a lot of plastic body-work, or water-cooling, but that does give dilemah with teen-revival models which probably were.
Which means... there is really very little that makes any sort of 'sensible' suggestion... so its just a case of picking the least stupid, that you are most comfy loosing money, sleep and blood over along the way!!!!
And if you are NOT going to make use of when done, if it Is just for the doing... what will sell most easily to the widest audience....
The answer to which is something brochure standard and near concourse, and since half new bike sales are in the Learner-Legal arena and have been for thirty years.. probably something learner legal.
Back to the Honda CG and XR125's....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| kgm |
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kgm
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wr6133
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Rogerborg
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stinkwheel
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| Posted: 11:26 - 09 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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As I recently found. Pre-unit enfield bullets are going for silly money. I bought two fucked ones, built a working one and got my money back (plus had the frame and casings I wanted for my project).
An odd one still comes up with a gubbed crank/main bearings (and there is a used crank with conrod on hitchcocks right now for about £200 to give you an idea). They are pretty easy to work on, effectively a 1950's OHV single with seperate clutch and gearbox. May not be teaching you all about modern motorbikes. However spares availability is excellent and they lend themselves to a "cafe racer" thing using off the shelf parts.
If you're used to aero-engines, the tolerances and quality of finish will horrify you.
Be aware that while people like to OWN a cafe racer. They like to BUY a stock standard bike. Cafe racering a bike will not add value, quite the opposite. I think there is actually money to be made (or will be in the future) restoring bastardised cafe racers/bobbers to standard. I ought to start stockpiling airboxes and mudguards.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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| Sandledtub12 |
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Sandledtub12
Derestricted Danger
Joined: 08 Jun 2018
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| Posted: 11:32 - 09 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | Well, rather than planning to sell on, tell us what your budget is... I'll pm you my pay-pal details, and you can drop 3x your budget in there.. and then you can say "Thank-you! You have saved me soooo much hassle and pain and money"... oh kay? lol
Seriousely, there's far too many folk out there that think that customs and classics are their road to riches, who will pay dar too much for a pile of rusty chit. that they will spend far too much on doing a cheque-book resto and expect to sell on for a profit.....
It don't work like that... and at best, IF you pick one of the bikes that might flog for big money IF done, and IF done to a standard that commands money put in it.... and IF you are a bvit savvy alonmg the way... you 'MAY', and its a big may stacked on a house of cards of 'ifs' you might just about cover the cost of parts.... you will not likely pay yourself anything like your normal hourly rate for the risk, the hassle the hurt, the dirt and the time... take heed.
Say to Newbies looking to learn to ride, that the benchmark bike is a Yamaha YBR125 at 3-4 years old, but bikes the last thing you need.
For a resto..... the bench mark is a Unit construction Triumph T120 Bonaville or chrome mudguard Honda CB750K0 or K1. they are the ones folk know, that folk value, that are common as muck, and have as much support for by way of spares and specialists to 'help' you finish the job.
THAT is the big question... whether you will even get the job finished... look on ebay look in the back of the mags, 9 out of 10 projects just dont.. then work the odds of how many of the ones that DO get finished, are in anyway as imagined at the start, and how many dont cost more to finish than they are worth on open market.
Say it time and again, but You DONT do this sort of thing for the money, you do it PURELY for the love.. whether that's the simple joy of turning a pile of scrap metal, any-one else would melt down for to make washing-machines, alone, or to make something at the end you simply could not buy.. but either way, the value is in the doing...
Moral:
.... so you pick the bike YOU would like to own and ride when it's done
Its as simple as that. There's no right answer, no wrong answer no good suggestion, no bad suggestion.. its up to YOU.
Your project, your money, your time, your risk... pick the bike YOU would like to build...
Whether that's a concourse show-standard every-bolt authentic 1930's Rudge or a cut-down raked out 1970's Vespa, or anything in between, its up to you... its YOUR project.
Do you have a full bike licence?
What would you like to ride to work or on a sunny sunday?
What 'could' you get some use out of? Or would you be better off picking something purely for static display in your hallway?
For a first time, project....
Notions, and they are just notions, that you want to pick something 'simple', to stand best chance of seing it through; that you want to pick something 'cheap' so you stand best chance of funding it to completion.... are all plans of mice and men, that go out the window when you actually start twiddling spanners....
And, of that 1 in 5 or 1 in 1 projects that ever do get to something resembling 'finished'... after the first 'Oh my Gawd it WORKS!!!" ride.. that I have to say, has in twenty five years never got 'old' for me... if you take the folk who tall you how brilliant it is to do 'project bikes'.. you dont have to scrap much veneer off the top of thier enthusiasm for their creation, to get to something a bit closer to the truth, when they start telling you what they shouod have done, or what they wished they had done, and what they hope top do next time.... because, that's the nature of the game..
Sooooooo you fly a desk and don't get your hands dirty anymore, and think this would be a good way to keep your eye in... and that you can build 'something' with even more optimistic ideas that thing might be a custom, Cafe-Racer or Brat-Chop 'special' with some custom ideas chucked in.... and sell it on to fund doing another......
Err... yeah...... first words of wisdom.. get them ideas WELL out of your head....
Folk spend thousands every year to dangle a bit of string in a lake to try and out-wit a fish, that even if the win, they likely wont even eat, and just chuck back! And they call that 'fun'?!?!? Others spend as much or more every year on green fees to go ruin a nice walk in teh country, as Churchill said, knocking a plastic ball around trying to loose it down a rabbit hole.... what do they expect, the march hair and the mad hatter to pop out and chuck it back? I REALLY dont get these things....
But then, the folk that do them would probably look at my collection of old Honda 125 Super-Dreams and other old scrap, and say the same, and wonder why I wast just as much time, and probably as much money doing something just as futile.....
Now... the little super-Dreams I blame squarely on my other half Snowie... she wanted to do one to get her motorbike licence on... and left me to pick the pieces.....
Twenty years ago, though, in a similar situation to you, I was flying a desk; the road-bike had to be parked up 'cos "Kids" and commuting was killing it....
I had, in the shed, though my Montesa Cota 248 trials bike, that I have owned since 1986, when its first and only 'Daylight' MOT had just expired, and bought to do competition trials on, before I was even old enough to have a moped on the road.... that had, for over a decade been thrashed, trashed and abused, doing the occasional gypsy trial with whatever club I could find hosting something not too far away, I might get to.... and had been torn down and fully rebuilt, at least three times then! so I did sort of know its mechanics pretty well.
So, I made decision, to do over, tear it down, completely renovate it, and do at least one full season with just one club, given that at that point they had created a class for the old T-Shock trials bikes it could be entered in.....
And despite spousal approval and dissaproval, changing with the wind, or more often... that is what I did.
Thing is.. I had the bike to start with, saving that choice; I knew who to go to for the bits, saving a lot of searching, I knew the mechanics, saving even more... and I had a reason to do it... to go trialzin... and that reason, gave the bike a purpose, and kept the remit relatively tight and kept 'silly ideas' in check... I was not going to be having daft ideas of PIR headlamp conversions, or mono-shock conversions, or giving it ape-hanger handle-bars!
THAT 'reason' then steered the renovation; finished bike had to meet the regs for class, and be trials worthy, it had to work, and work well, pretty paint and fancy accessories wouldn't help that, so what money and effort was chucked at it got put into replacing bearings and oiling cables etc, not pin-striping on the petrol tank, or hand-stitching the saddle....
When done.... end result even managed to take me to a class win in one event..... in however many full seasons with two clubs.....
A-N-D I have a folder upstars some-where with all entry and results sheets in it, that probabloy has a few reciepts from Sammy Miller Spares... that represent about 1/10th of what I spent just on the bike, let alone getting to and taking part in the events!
But what the heck... I could have spent more money dangling a bit of string in a pond catching nothing but a cold.....
SO!!!!!!!
IS this how you REALLY want to spend your leisure time and money?
If so... pick whatever takes your fancy that you think you can get the value from in the doing and after in the using.
If you aren't going to get the pleasure from it, it will NOT be worth the doing, and given the liklihood that the thing, even with the odds stacked in your favour, picking a more popular machine people might pay good money for when done, and doing it to the book 'standard' that they are most likely to want and pay for... you barely stand a chance of breaking even.. let alone paying for the skinned knuckles..... it will just NOT be worth the doing... you may as well go dangle a bit of string in a polluted canal.... it will be just as frustrating, just as miserable, but you likely wont loose heart so quick, or waste as much money along the way.....
SO... ball back in your court.... start with a project brief... what would you like at the end.... something to stick on display in your hallway? something to go down the pub on a sunny sunday afternoon? something to go enter in concourse shows? something to stick round a track in classic competition, WHAT?
It would be like asking what airfix model we think you should make... a tank, a plane, a car, a 00 scale railway station!!! There IS no answer... its your call.
And if you have no railway set, a 00-cale railway station probably isn't much use to you; if you have no interest in WWII tanbks, why make one, so will a spitfire on a plastic stand look good on your desk?
That is the way you need to be thinking.
You start with the idea, you look at both ends, go round the circle, asking quations and deciding if the idea has any merit, and change the remit a bit to come up with a spec that is achieveable; they you go around the loop again, looking at the details, changing the plan to suit, then put it into action... pays your money and takes your chances.. get the bike YOU think you would kike to do, that stands best chance of being done... and then start going round the loop again, and again and again, resolving the unseen, the problems, adapting and clarifying to get closer to the goal,,, you set NOW.. which has to be clear, and near cast in stone, and kept in sight at all times IF you want any chance of seeing it through and achieving something even close to what you hope.
That is aboutr the onbly real advice I can offer; start with a clear idea of what you want to achieve, and stick to your objectives; if half wayu through, DONT change the goal.
Eg: you start out to do a concourse resto, but find half way through that there is something critical, like say an air-boxc you cant get for love nor money; you dont suddenly decide, well.. Oh kay, we can live without the air-box, use a cone filter, and hmm... its not concourse any-mnore, and exhausts are expensive, I'll build a chopper.....
You get into that sort of game, the project goes off track; every time you get stuck, or hit a problem, changes direction, and you end up with something that is neither nor; bits here and there are done to concourse, bits there are done like a chopper; bits over there, are done like a dirt bike, and NOTHING really works or fits together, and what you end up with, if it gets finished doesn't fullful any real purpose or deliver the fun in the riding, cos its painful to ride.
B-U-T all starts at the beginning... its YOUR project, check dictionary defanition; that is a defined endevour of whatever YOU wish to do.. no one wlse can do the defining for you; you have to do it. And THAT if anything is the key... defining what you want to do, making a plan and sticking to your guns not chopping and changing until you realise goals.
You want advice for a first timer; keep it simple, keep it standard; work to the book,; rather than trying to re-write it.
Dont have any daft ideas that its going to be 'cheap' or easy, or 'quick'.
It will almost certainly take three times as much money as you originally plan, times the space, and ten times the time....
So make your plan flexible, and give yourself lea-way for this sort of over-run.
Look in profile, you will see pretty detail threads on at least two of my projects, an air-cooled Yamaha DT12/75 mono-shock, which was originally supposed to be a low rent pocket money project and was far from it; another Honda 125 superDream done as a 'Watch and Do' example for Snowie, who did her own, also linked on another thread. Off Snowies profile, probably linked from her 'Pup' project is her having a crack at rebovating a MotoGuzzi 750 after she had passed tests, I hindered with and put up with its gearbox on my kitchen side!!!!
Should be plenty of inspiration there; and even more in the threads in show and tell... which is worth a look at how many end abruptly, often after little more than an optimistic intro, and some photo's of old scrap, we never see turned into anything resembling a working motorbike..... whether they want to build a concourse Classic out of a Bantum or a Cafe--Brat-Chop out of a Shinrey chinky CG clone.....
That is where you probably should start, and noting just how many 'projects' get started... and so few 'fininshed'... you have been warned.
NOT the answer you were hoping for, I am sure.... but sorry....
Me, I would do another Honda CB125 Twin.... mainly 'cos that's what I got. Or a Montesa Cota 248... cos thats also wot I got.... or a VF1000 cos thats another wot I got... and I'm a glutton for punishment..... none of which are particularly sensible... not that any project ever is; so what the heck... how many quick do you want to chuck down the drain.... or transfer into my Pay-Pal.....
Its your call... give us some better idea of your budget and aspirations, and we might be able to advice or steer... BUT its ultimately down to you.... remember, three times, five times, ten times, money, space and time, let alone the hassle.... its not 'sensible' and whatever you pick and however you tackle it, all you will ever manage to do is make it a bit less daft.....
Would you rather be fishing? that is the question. |
Thank you so much for this very in-depth reply/help. You have made me question myself on what I really want, and I guess what it boils down to is that, I enjoy making old things new again. I do not really have a budget in mind at present as I'm in the very very early stages of this "project".
I have never touched a motorbike mechanically so this will be a very steep learning curve for me, which is very exciting. The way I am planning this "project" is to first learn all about the mechanical workings of motorbikes, then to gather all the knowledge I can on a certain bike, then I will get all necessary tools and equipment (at present I only have a few of my own hand tools) then I plan to fund it month by month, I guess I can afford a couple of hundred quid per month. Im not bothered about making money as I am doing this out of interest, I just enjoy getting my hands dirty and restoring things to their former glory. For example, in my line of work we take aircraft components, strip them right back, repair them, and put them all back together to look and perform as new. As I am unable to do this anymore (moved up and onto a computer....) I wish to do it with motorbikes.
Thanks again!!!
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| stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4
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| Posted: 13:02 - 09 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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All been said tbh, but you definitely need to know what you're prepared to spend on X bike before you can't justify it and want to stop. And if you have the space for a bike to sit in the dry part completed for some time if your short of hard to find parts, money to buy stuff with, or time/enthusiasm.
You definitely don't want to clog up the family conservatory, Shed, garage with a half complete bike that everyone maybe you too will resent having sitting in the way at some point, and one that's got £xxxx invested into it, that you really could use for something else at some point in the future.
Can't offer any advice on what bike to do, that's your decision. I'd go with easy to find and local to collect, unless you say have a burning unscratched itch for the 1974XYZ that has always passed you by, but you can't get out of your mind etc.
To a degree anything restored and tidy will sell, but it's like TM etc said more about how much are you happy to lose on each bike resto, as opposed to breaking even, or in fantasy gain.
You've got no history of certain bikes like some of us that steers us towards certain bikes by default, so I'd put it down to what you can find ideally locally that you like the look/idea of.
Those that said bikes with long production runs, barely changed have got some sense though from a minimising pain and persistence in parts hunting.
I go on the RDLC forum, and it's a strange one in that it's mostly 50-60yr old men, with often knackered bodies that can barely ride if at all. Many there though are seasoned even semi pro restorers that have loads of information and knowledge of the bikes, and spares and contacts for parts. They are a close community and often sell/swap parts with each other to finish the bikes they build.
Its also a mix of std vs specials, and though some of these guys often sell on completed resto/builds they are selling bikes that cost them a ton to start with in classic/scene tax, so it's more about the building as a hobby and trying out ideas they want or new/different parts and components to last time etc.
Its hard for some BCF'ers that like to have and use their old bikes to put themselves in the mind of someone who's just doing it to sell on after the experience and possibly start again with the next project.
My own pointless opinion to offer is my situation/bike choices. I don't own anything that I plan to sell (swap maybe one day) and I've several of the same bike/parts etc. So it's a small light 1980's Kawasaki that's had a 16yr production run, and regarding parts well it's not bad. I've got two great sources of new and used parts in say 15miles in each direction. That's before EBay, bike factors and specialist re-manufactuerers or one off custom made parts manufacturers.
I'd take on a rare bike with patchy parts support if it was a total dream bike/obsession, and I had no budget or time limitations, but otherwise with a life to live who wants that much of an extra headache? |
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| WD Forte |
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WD Forte
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