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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nukular is always dialled to 11, that's the whole point of it.

The significant part of that snapshot is that even though demand is as low as its ever going to get, we're still ripping through gas (and wood and Euronuke) like gangbusters.

And that's why solarwind is a bad joke, because we're always going to need all that fossil or nuke capacity in addition to the expensive ecomental generation.
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Nukular is always dialled to 11, that's the whole point of it.

The significant part of that snapshot is that even though demand is as low as its ever going to get, we're still ripping through gas (and wood and Euronuke) like gangbusters.

And that's why solarwind is a bad joke, because we're always going to need all that fossil or nuke capacity in addition to the expensive ecomental generation.


Agreed. The French have saved gigatonnes of CO2 emissions with their nuclear reactors. Often they generate >120% of their electricity without any carbon emissions(they export the spare to neighbours). Impressive. Expensive to build and decommission, but those gigatonnes saved could be priceless.. http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for global warming, photographic evidence of the world from space provides compelling difficult to deny evidence. Examples include photographs of glaciers disappearing all over the world and long term decline in polar ice coverage. Linkages below.
https://blogs.agu.org/fromaglaciersperspective/
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends who you believe,

https://realclimatescience.com/2017/10/arctic-sea-ice-increasing-for-eleven-years/
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
As for global warming, photographic evidence of the world from space provides compelling difficult to deny evidence. Examples include photographs of glaciers disappearing all over the world and long term decline in polar ice coverage. Linkages below.
https://blogs.agu.org/fromaglaciersperspective/
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

90% of Great Barrier Reef lost in a year!

Every year!

http://www.thegwpf.com/content/uploads/2016/10/AAA1-1024x773.png

CO2 is plant food.

CO2 is life.
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:


I think I'll 'believe' radar and photographs from satellites rather than a short blog on the internet.. Which is data not beliefs.
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


CO2 is plant food.

CO2 is life.


I don't think it's the plant food properties of CO2 the scientists are worried about..

Still, it suggests some investment opportunities; buy plots of land on Greenland and watch the value soar!
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
Johnnythefox wrote:


I think I'll 'believe' radar and photographs from satellites rather than a short blog on the internet.. Which is data not beliefs.



The 'short blog on the internet' uses data from MASIE as used by your source http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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mpd72 CPT
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:

I think I'll 'believe' the propaganda which suits my agenda rather than a short blog on the internet.. Which is factual but doesn't suit my agenda.


I like how it was rebranded a few years ago from "global warming", when it was becoming obvious that global temperatures were actually in decline again.

"Quick lads, we can't call it "global warming" anymore, because it's getting colder again."

"How about "climate change"? That way, unless the climate stays perfectly stable, we can still use it as an excuse to plough on green taxes, whether it gets colder or warmer"
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:


The 'short blog on the internet' uses data from MASIE as used by your source http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/


If I wrote a blog cherry picking Masie data would you believe that too? Perhaps all the photos of retreating glaciers I also linked to were photoshopped by the satellite software?
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Mart_er6 wrote:

I think I'll 'believe' the propaganda which suits my agenda rather than a short blog on the internet.. Which is factual but doesn't suit my agenda.


I like how it was rebranded a few years ago from "global warming", when it was becoming obvious that global temperatures were actually in decline again.

"Quick lads, we can't call it "global warming" anymore, because it's getting colder again."

"How about "climate change"? That way, unless the climate stays perfectly stable, we can still use it as an excuse to plough on green taxes, whether it gets colder or warmer"


Ooh, I almost feel physically violated by the strength of your response. Maybe you are the one with the 'agenda' as you seem quite worked up about it. Whereas as I am pointing out the upsides; investment opportunities in Greenland (perhaps Northern Canada/Russia too?). Even Scotland might become pleasant eventually Smile
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

I like how it was rebranded a few years ago from "global warming", when it was becoming obvious that global temperatures were actually in decline again.

"Quick lads, we can't call it "global warming" anymore, because it's getting colder again."

"How about "climate change"? That way, unless the climate stays perfectly stable, we can still use it as an excuse to plough on green taxes, whether it gets colder or warmer"


You really are a pleb.

I saw this yesterday, by a UC Berkeley Physics professor whose climate analysis organisation started out as skeptics, after which they proved themselves wrong.

http://qr.ae/TUpnTc

Not sure who to trust though. Highly respected professor of physics at one of the most prestigious educational institutions in the world? Or another clueless angry moron on the internet who thinks whatever he sees out of his window is conclusive evidence of whatever totally uninformed nonsense rage hysteria guesswork he wants to broadcast for the day.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:


CO2 is plant food.

CO2 is life.


I don't think it's the plant food properties of CO2 the scientists are worried about..

What are they worried about? Rising temperatures will open up far more habitable land in the taiga regions than it will cause desertification near the equator.

Rising temperature is a good thing. Temperature is energy is life. CO2 is life.

We're not going to have a Venusian runaway greenhouse effects, since CO2 levels are still near an historic low point. They've been over 5,000ppm in the past, compared to a mere 400ppm now. In the previous glaciation period (we're still in an ice age, remember) levels dropped to 200ppm. Go below about 180ppm and all plant life on earth, and therefore all animal life on earth, just dies. Forever.

Burn, baby, burn. We need to get carbon back into the depleted biosphere as a matter of urgency.


Mart_er6 wrote:
Still, it suggests some investment opportunities; buy plots of land on Greenland and watch the value soar!

Er, yes. Exactly.

Or if you're Al Gore, screech about rising sea levels, then buy ocean front property.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antarctica is shedding ice at an accelerating rate!

"Accelerating" compared to what? Thinking

"We can't say when it started - we didn't collect measurements in the sea back then"

This acceleration means that "the sea-level rise we will see [by 2100] is 50/60cm", a huge acceleration from 300cm.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! accelerates.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 06:40 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


Burn, baby, burn. We need to get carbon back into the depleted biosphere as a matter of urgency.


I think natural rates of evolution might have something to say about that.

What are your thoughts on the coral reefs which are dying everywhere and not replacing themselves?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Burn, baby, burn. We need to get carbon back into the depleted biosphere as a matter of urgency.

I think natural rates of evolution might have something to say about that.

Do they have something to say that's comprehensible?

To be clear: I am against plastic, air and water table pollution; fertiliser run-off; clear cut forestry; drag net fishing, especially zappy nets (thanks, Brussels).

I am for putting CO2 back into the biosphere to help it out.


Lord Percy wrote:
What are your thoughts on the coral reefs which are dying everywhere and not replacing themselves?

https://www.google.com/search?q=great+barrier+reef+hysteria
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


To be clear: I am against plastic, air and water table pollution; fertiliser run-off; clear cut forestry; drag net fishing, especially zappy nets (thanks, Brussels).

I am for putting CO2 back into the biosphere to help it out.



So you're against all the here-and-now things that can easily be remedied if things appear to have gone a step too far, but have no issue with dumping CO2 into the atmosphere at well-above-natural rates, which can't be reversed in any way once the step-too-far point is reached?
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 17 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this is all made up.. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/ramp-up-in-antarctic-ice-loss-speeds-sea-level-rise
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 17 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
So you're against all the here-and-now things that can easily be remedied if things appear to have gone a step too far

Sure, aren't you?

Lord Percy wrote:
but have no issue with dumping CO2 into the atmosphere at well-above-natural rates

What alien species raised CO2 levels to 5,000 ppm in the past?

Lord Percy wrote:
which can't be reversed in any way once the step-too-far point is reached?

What alien species lowered CO2 levels from 5,000 ppm in the past to the near catastrophic 200 ppm that nearly ended all life on earth?


Mart_er6 wrote:

Let's throw that on the pile-o-doom, shall we? If all NASA shrieking to date had been accurate, we'd be chumming around with Kevin Costner on his boat, talking wistfully about Dryland.

Climate changes. We're still in an ice age, recall. The planet is, historically speaking, relatively cold and ice bound. From what we know of climate cycles, we're overdue a hard glaciation period, if we were to leave things to mother nature.

Personally, I've very glad that we're not. You get that slight warming is much better than the alternative, right? Wishing that we could keep everything locked to some arbitrary 1850's idyll is bizarre. Climate changes.
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 17 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

What alien species lowered CO2 levels from 5,000 ppm in the past to the near catastrophic 200 ppm that nearly ended all life on earth?


It's likely all about rate of change and the ability of the planet to naturally regulate. An example of natural regulation could be the global greening you mentioned earlier, except that there is a certain group of mammals that like to make the Earth less green.. might be a factor, might not, in the natural Gaia-like global feedback mechanisms (if they exist). A

Rogerborg wrote:

Personally, I've very glad that we're not. You get that slight warming is much better than the alternative, right? Wishing that we could keep everything locked to some arbitrary 1850's idyll is bizarre. Climate changes.


Yep nowt wrong with slight warming, totally with you there..
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 17 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Wishing that we could keep everything locked to some arbitrary 1850's idyll is bizarre. Climate changes.



See the more and more boat migrants thread. This is one of the consequences of such change.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 17 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Wishing that we could keep everything locked to some arbitrary 1850's idyll is bizarre. Climate changes.



See the more and more boat migrants thread. This is one of the consequences of such change.


Yeah, if it got really hot, the seas would all dry up and then the bastards would have to walk across!
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 17 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Yeah, if it got really hot,


Um no today and now there is massive water crisis in the MENA region it is set to get worse.

Plus the key temperature is 35C-38C due to the wet bulb effect. That's when sweating can no longer regulate body temperature.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 18 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Yeah, if it got really hot,


Um no today and now there is massive water crisis in the MENA region it is set to get worse.

Plus the key temperature is 35C-38C due to the wet bulb effect. That's when sweating can no longer regulate body temperature.


I was being facetious.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 18 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
See the more and more boat migrants thread. This is one of the consequences of such change.

iPhones, tens of thousands of Eurodollah to buy passage, but those are the ones living in water poverty? OK, sure, they're fleeing from, not swarming to. It's fine, we'll just keep on punting them up to the Scandies.

Riddle me this: posit a 3 degree global drop in temperatures from the 1850 perfection point.

What would that look like?
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