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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Indicator woes Reply with quote

Hey guys

Possibly a simple one. I’ve replaced the speedo on my bike, the previous one had two lights on the dash for the indicators but the new Speedo has one.

Problem: If the wire that comes from the one indiactor idiot light goes to both indicators it’ll cause all indicators to flash at once but if it goes to just one it’ll obviously only flash for that one indicator. Is there any solution to this ?

Any help appreciated
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:53 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 fix would be to get 2 diodes, say 1N5400x
lower rated ones will do esp if the new speedo has an LED
idiot light, but these wil take rough handling better.

Common the cathodes (silver ringed end) and connect that to the speedos flasher input
then patch each of the anodes to the L&R flasher wires


1N5400 link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1N5400-1N5408-SERIES-GENERAL-PURPOSE-RECTIFIER-DIODES-PACKS-OF-10PCS/263444878442?hash=item3d5689d46a:m:mJPFA-To02Q21t9OrMOxFaw

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fcoAAOSwu4BV0wGI/s-l1600.jpg
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Last edited by WD Forte on 00:57 - 18 May 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 00:54 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telling us what bike, what speedo, may help.....

One idiot-lamp 'tell-tale'... common bit of electrickery, and yup.. does sound like it shouldn't work... but it duz.

You have a common feed from the flasher unit, going to the indy switch; indy switch points electric at indy lamps on one side or t'other, each is earthed, lamps flash.

To make the tell-tale work... it has NO earth. The bulb is coupled accross the out-puts of the direction switch.... electrick goes into switch, switch points it at that side indy-lamps, and the tell-tale... electric goes to indy lamps making them come on, but some goes through the tell-tale... comes out the tell-tale, and has to flow through the 'off' indicator lamps on the other side to get to earth... there's a 'law' a propper leccie can probably quote that relates the voltage through a 'node', but esentially, you put 12v on the input side of the tell-tale, and the resistance of that bulb makes the voltage on its other side drop.... so the volts that come out of that and might go through the normal indies on the 'off' side, isn't enough to make the bulbs light up, but there is continuity, so the electric can find its way back to earth... clear as mud?

Basicacally the 'bridge' tell-tale does work, with one bulb coupling both sides of the indicators, and dont light them all up.... PROVIDED... the indies DO have bulbs in them..... if you have LED's that have bog all resistance, then the enough volts that make it through the tell-tale may be enough to make them light up.... and you dont have an LED in the tell-tale... cos its a diode, so volts can pas one way, but not t'other, and the tell-tale will flash with one side indies but not the other depoending on whether the electrics flowing the way LED allows.

Your issue.... you have wiring with two tell-tale lamps, one in parallel to each side indies.... your speedo has one tell-tale and expects a bridgecircuit for the bulb in it, that you dont have.

Choices... either you make up a bridge circuit as the speedo is designed for.... or you try squeeze two bulbs into one hole...... which, isn't actually so difficult if you have a hole for a typical peanut bulb dash-lamp and a couple of component LED's you can wedge in the same hole with a bit of insulation tape or RTA.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 01:05 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another way is to patch the speedos flasher input to between the flasher unit output and the switch.
This will usually be in a high state until the switch is used then as it gets pulled down as the indicators flash, the idiot light will follow.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 01:57 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
Telling us what bike, what speedo, may help.....

One idiot-lamp 'tell-tale'... common bit of electrickery, and yup.. does sound like it shouldn't work... but it duz.

You have a common feed from the flasher unit, going to the indy switch; indy switch points electric at indy lamps on one side or t'other, each is earthed, lamps flash.

To make the tell-tale work... it has NO earth. The bulb is coupled accross the out-puts of the direction switch.... electrick goes into switch, switch points it at that side indy-lamps, and the tell-tale... electric goes to indy lamps making them come on, but some goes through the tell-tale... comes out the tell-tale, and has to flow through the 'off' indicator lamps on the other side to get to earth... there's a 'law' a propper leccie can probably quote that relates the voltage through a 'node', but esentially, you put 12v on the input side of the tell-tale, and the resistance of that bulb makes the voltage on its other side drop.... so the volts that come out of that and might go through the normal indies on the 'off' side, isn't enough to make the bulbs light up, but there is continuity, so the electric can find its way back to earth... clear as mud?

Basicacally the 'bridge' tell-tale does work, with one bulb coupling both sides of the indicators, and dont light them all up.... PROVIDED... the indies DO have bulbs in them..... if you have LED's that have bog all resistance, then the enough volts that make it through the tell-tale may be enough to make them light up.... and you dont have an LED in the tell-tale... cos its a diode, so volts can pas one way, but not t'other, and the tell-tale will flash with one side indies but not the other depoending on whether the electrics flowing the way LED allows.

Your issue.... you have wiring with two tell-tale lamps, one in parallel to each side indies.... your speedo has one tell-tale and expects a bridgecircuit for the bulb in it, that you dont have.

Choices... either you make up a bridge circuit as the speedo is designed for.... or you try squeeze two bulbs into one hole...... which, isn't actually so difficult if you have a hole for a typical peanut bulb dash-lamp and a couple of component LED's you can wedge in the same hole with a bit of insulation tape or RTA.


Cheers for the help mate. The two bulbs one hole suggestion wouldn’t work in this case. What do you mean by bridge circuit ?
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 02:13 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Another way is to patch the speedos flasher input to between the flasher unit output and the switch.
This will usually be in a high state until the switch is used then as it gets pulled down as the indicators flash, the idiot light will follow.


The idiot light stays on constantly, then flashes when the indicator is on.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bridge circuit, is easier to draw than explain.... but my botophucket is botophucked....

Left indy circuit
|
Bulb
|
Right Indy Circuit

When volts on left indy they flow through bulb making it light up.
When volts on Right indy circuit, they flow through bulb the other way, making it light up.
The volts find thier way through the bulb to earth on the side that's 'off', but because there's a voltage drop caused by the bulb in the middle, the volts that get through aren't enough to make the 'off' side indies light up..

Its an ingeniousely simple bit of wiring. Only needs one tell-tale lamp, and no diodes or anything, so its cheap and simple and rugged.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I’ve sorted the dash light problem by using the diodes. Cheers for that.

I had led indicators on the rear with load risistors and bulb indicators up front. I’ve replaced the front indicators with led’s now and removed the load resistors. I then replaced the flasher unit with one made for leds. The indicators flash but they’re really dim.

With the original flasher unit they’re bright but don’t flash. I tried a third flasher unit with three wires rather than the usual 3 pin connector. That only works with two of the three wires connected and makes the indicators dim also.

Is there a special flasher unit I need ? Or am I doing something wrong

(The battery is full charged)
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

y u no say what bike?

If you have somehow connected the flashers in series instead of parallel, that could make them dimmer

The 3 wire flasher unit probably uses/needs one wire for ground
I obviously don't know what you have, or the internal circuitry
of the flasher, but if its solid state, the lack of ground might prevent it turnng on fully hence the low light output.
But that's just a wild guess, it might be operator error in the wiring
for all I know
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 02:23 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
y u no say what bike?

If you have somehow connected the flashers in series instead of parallel, that could make them dimmer

The 3 wire flasher unit probably uses/needs one wire for ground
I obviously don't know what you have, or the internal circuitry
of the flasher, but if its solid state, the lack of ground might prevent it turnng on fully hence the low light output.
But that's just a wild guess, it might be operator error in the wiring
for all I know


It’s a Yamaha xs500. I think the flashers are wired fine because the rear ones were fine when I had load resistors and the original flasher unit.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two new flasher units [/img]
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any ideas ???
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming wiring is ok
I'd take the flasher unit out of the equation and apply 12v to each sides supply and see if the flashers for that side light up OK.
(Dark green = Right, Chocolate = Left if the diagram I'm looking at
is correct)

If they do, its probably the flasher unit
If they don't and are still dim, I'd be looking at the wiring
but I'd apply 12v directly to each unit to make sure they function OK
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 00:26 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Assuming wiring is ok
I'd take the flasher unit out of the equation and apply 12v to each sides supply and see if the flashers for that side light up OK.
(Dark green = Right, Chocolate = Left if the diagram I'm looking at
is correct)

If they do, its probably the flasher unit
If they don't and are still dim, I'd be looking at the wiring
but I'd apply 12v directly to each unit to make sure they function OK


Okay, all the lights definitely work fine. I'm going to try another new flasher unit.
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