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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 02:06 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Thank pjay Reply with quote

Idiots will spout idiot spiel.
You go ride school bike.
And then make opinion
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 07:35 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guido wrote:
I love the the riding positions of sports bikes and some sports tourers, It maybe daft, but I would love a big fat back tyre (I know I know, until I have to replace one 😁)


Then you want a Hornet. Fat tyre but not intimidating power delivery. Touch on the powerful side for a newbie but better than a supersport machine.
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:10 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guido wrote:

I love the the riding positions of sports bikes and some sports tourers


What sports bikes or tourers have you ridden to make that assumption, and what other types of bike have you experience of to compare them to?

If you mean theoretically you do - just brace yourself for the actual as you may not like it as much as you think.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Guido wrote:

I love the the riding positions of sports bikes and some sports tourers


What sports bikes or tourers have you ridden to make that assumption, and what other types of bike have you experience of to compare them to?

If you mean theoretically you do - just brace yourself for the actual as you may not like it as much as you think.

So much that.

You may like looking at some chap wiggling his leather clad rump in the air, but being that chap might not be the experience you imagine it to be.

And no, just sitting on one in a showroom doesn't let you experience what it's like while riding. High arse, high feet, low narrow bars is designed for minimising wind resistance, keeping the front wheel down, and tipping the bike right the way over on fresh race tyres on a dry race track.

On a short commute on 3rd world UK roads in traffic, it's awful, just awful. It's homophobic, is what it is, it hates homo sapiens. Get something designed to fit humans, rather than something that forces humans to fit it.

TERRABAD:
https://i.imgur.com/jCjbniI.png

ALMOST FIT FOR HUMANS:
https://i.imgur.com/TOqTdHF.png
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MahatmaAndhi
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If 500cc is so boring and undesirable, you'll be able to pick up your first big boy bike for peanuts.
You'll get a decent MPG, cheap insurance and you'll still be able to overtake most cars on a 60 or 70mph road with relative ease.

If you get bored, sell it and buy something bigger. Unless you do something wrong to it, it'll retain its value (I've sold all my bikes for more than I've paid for them - apart from the two that completely died - and been totally honest in the ads).

And it's probably less likely to get nicked.
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fireyphoenix1...
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PostPosted: 01:57 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

CC argument is bollocks.Usually spouted by the summer fairy A-road nobbers.

The bikes style and skill of the rider is FAR more important.
I ride an SXV750, one of my friends rides a CRF-450 SM another a Monster 900.The least powerful bike in my lot is a DRZ400SM the most powerful an Bandit 1200 turbo.
Real world riding, all are mostly the same. Some pull harder, but none ever gets left behind by the others.
Mostly as riders are usually the biggest limiting factor.

Ride what YOU want to. Ignore everyone else.
Personally i would say CB500 or SV650 for first bike. Both are comfy, quick and very easy to ride. Neither is fast, but you dont want a fast bike until you learn how to ride properly which can only happen but riding a lot Razz.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 05:27 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

sometimes a smaller bike will keep up better in twistys.. just suck on straights or if you lose too much speed...

my car isnt the biggest engine but i absolutely abused an audi tt through twisties the other night, he overtook me and left me on the straight before the bends, i ended up pulling over a few miles up the road and watched him fly past, i guess still trying to chase me.

then again.. rsv 1100 tuono factory Wink
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 09:14 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

fireyphoenix1989 wrote:
The bikes style and skill of the rider is FAR more important.
I ride an SXV750, one of my friends rides a CRF-450 SM another a Monster 900.The least powerful bike in my lot is a DRZ400SM the most powerful an Bandit 1200 turbo.
Real world riding, all are mostly the same. Some pull harder, but none ever gets left behind by the others.
Mostly as riders are usually the biggest limiting factor.


All of those bikes have quite a nutty power to weight ratio. None of them really are in the same league as a 500cc twin except perhaps the DRZ.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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Charginglemon
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same line of thinking as you when I passed. I tried out a Bandit 600, but didn't feel confident on that so tried out a CBF 500 with ABS which felt like a good starting point. The ABS stopped me going over the handle bars during my first couple of brown-pants moments, and while a twin can feel a little lumpy and low-end it would scream toward the red-line.. I suppose its like driving a small car fast vs a fast car normally so go at the same speed - The small car is more fun because you have to work harder for it.

After about a year or two, and once I'd dropped it a couple of times (parking) and it wasn't looking so neat I sold it on and got a 600 which felt like going from a Fiesta to a Bentley. With a bit more experience, I managed to keep that immaculate.

So I guess my advice would be to try a few bikes and see what your comfortable with and go from there.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 10:45 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, none of you will have the same formative experience as someone like myself who started on a 2 stroke 125. Shame really. 500's are dull as ditchwater in comparison.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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Val
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
To be honest, none of you will have the same formative experience as someone like myself who started on a 2 stroke 125. Shame really. 500's are dull as ditchwater in comparison.


Two stroke Thumbs Up

I have started on two stroke too, the smell the sound mate the pace these things pick up speed, anybody riding bike must try two stroke Laughing

Not to mention you instantly recognized who was riding bike these days the way their clothes smelled. Other then that except the helmet there was no any special clothing in my days.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 15 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

i miss my old 125 2 stroke Sad fun times
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 05:57 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can still get two strokes - they are great for cutting stuff in the garden and putting back in the shed afterwards.

You can keep carbs and all that nostalgic nonsense.

A modern bike with fuel injection, decent brakes, decent lights, forgiving handling and generally reliable. No prayers as you try and start it or maybe want to ride it in something other than bone dry weather.

The real answer is to try loads of bikes and preferably own more than one as it's difficult to find one that does everything you'll eventually want.

My boring two cents is that my current Z1000SX is a far better bike than the CB500 it replaced - it gets me to the speeds i did on the CB500 in < half the time and twice the comfort but I'm not actually much faster on it because i'm still on the same public roads i was on before.

I wouldn't go back to a twin but i can see a triple ending up in the garage.

As Rog says, ride something in the real world for an hour and then see how your back / neck / legs and arse feel. You're either sportsbike shape or you are not.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 08:43 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleBFester wrote:
You can still get two strokes - they are great for cutting stuff in the garden and putting back in the shed afterwards.

You can keep carbs and all that nostalgic nonsense.

A modern bike with fuel injection, decent brakes, decent lights, forgiving handling and generally reliable. No prayers as you try and start it or maybe want to ride it in something other than bone dry weather.

The real answer is to try loads of bikes and preferably own more than one as it's difficult to find one that does everything you'll eventually want.

My boring two cents is that my current Z1000SX is a far better bike than the CB500 it replaced - it gets me to the speeds i did on the CB500 in < half the time and twice the comfort but I'm not actually much faster on it because i'm still on the same public roads i was on before.

I wouldn't go back to a twin but i can see a triple ending up in the garage.

As Rog says, ride something in the real world for an hour and then see how your back / neck / legs and arse feel. You're either sportsbike shape or you are not.


My NS125R was supremely reliable. I used to ride it from Reading to Brighton and back every week for a couple of years.

I don't recommend anyone start on a 130bhp 1000cc sports tourer. Without the practice to modulate the throttle, you could easily lose the back end, or give it too much at the wrong time.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.


Last edited by MarJay on 16:10 - 16 Jun 2018; edited 1 time in total
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A looked after 2 stroke is reliable enough - but unlike an FI 4T, you can't just neglect it and expect it to work, they need a bit of looking after. I'd have a 2T again in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the noise at 5AM that would piss all my neighbours off.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget suggesting two strokes to OP or new riders. They were a thing for some of us, and fun and the time or again now in some cases. The world moved on though, and for whatever reasons (emissions legislation mainly) there's been a different path of development for 20-25years.

Look at Diesel cars. Who'd have thought 10years ago that they'd be penalised and taxed to the point of influenceing manufacturers to stop making them or change to other fuels etc. Will you all be harping on in 20years to new drivers saying you should buy an old diesel car as they were brilliant and you can't get them now?
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G
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
The world moved on though, and for whatever reasons (emissions legislation mainly) there's been a different path of development for 20-25years.

When a 4 stroke now can't match the power of Tef's favourite CB125T, doesn't really better the CG125 on economy and doesn't offer better suspension or brakes than the said 2 strokes - I'm not sure 'development' is the right description! Smile
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree with that but!

The market did it in for fun 125's as much as anything else. You could make a reasonably interesting fun to ride and light 15bhp 125 if you really wanted to IMO.

The market moved away from £4000 Aprilia's and Cagiva's that I was foaming at the mouth for in the early 90's. There was the economic crisis and spending decline, a lack of interest in 125'd due to a lack of young bikers, and a lack of manufacturers bothering to cater for a small market.

Then the Chinese came along with many and varied cheap copies of old Japanese 125's at almost silly low prices too initially. Yes it's taken them years to make reliable and lasting and even longer to make trendy/flash looking bikes, but they did it eventually and priced a proper well developed 125 out of the market.

One more thing was plastic twist and go's. For some/many teens in the 2000-2010 era these were all that they wanted, having for a while much more cred on the street than bikes did.

Yamaha could have bought out a 15bhp 13000rpm four stroke twin TZR in the late 90's if there had been a ridiculously high demand for sporty and expensive pinnacle 125's at that time.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 17:34 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Forget suggesting two strokes to OP or new riders. They were a thing for some of us, and fun and the time or again now in some cases. The world moved on though, and for whatever reasons (emissions legislation mainly) there's been a different path of development for 20-25years.

Look at Diesel cars. Who'd have thought 10years ago that they'd be penalised and taxed to the point of influenceing manufacturers to stop making them or change to other fuels etc. Will you all be harping on in 20years to new drivers saying you should buy an old diesel car as they were brilliant and you can't get them now?


Stevo, whilst I appreciate your input to the forum, sometimes you sail right past the point, go all the way around the world and end up near where you started!

I'm not suggesting people start on two strokes, I'm suggesting that they are (somewhat necessarily) missing out on the small capacity phase that we all had as teenagers. Going straight to a 70bhp 650 is normal these days, but back in the eighties or early to mid nineties, that would be unheard of, and perhaps even laughed at a bit. Although pre-33bhp law there was a lot of going straight from a 125 to a GSXR1100 or something... Even so, if I had to choose between a decent two stroke 125 and a Gladius 650, I'm not 100% sure which one I'd go for. If it was a two stroke 250 vs a Gladius 650... no contest. I'd be riding away in a massive cloud of smoke before you could say 'pre-mix'.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the whole riders coming in today are forced up a blind alley, often having to take tests on bikes over a silly set capacity to get a licence that only allows them to ride either boringly emasculated big bikes and then only within limits of cc and original power. Or A2 very weak watered down class fitters that offer style and electronics but nothing to get excited over and lack both character of the old bikes you mentioned, as well as budget spec materials and build quality.

No there's nothing really to get excited over, but maybe they'll never sell enough beginners bikes to care? That's how the bike world is today.

As a counter point to your last bike comparison, how about if you were offered a Gladius engine in a nice light alloy trellis frame like the gen1 SV had, but lighter, sharper and with Fireblade spec levels of brakes, suspension and build quality at a Gladius price? The old smoker might not be the best real world option then?
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 18:23 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I get the whole riders coming in today are forced up a blind alley, often having to take tests on bikes over a silly set capacity to get a licence that only allows them to ride either boringly emasculated big bikes and then only within limits of cc and original power. Or A2 very weak watered down class fitters that offer style and electronics but nothing to get excited over and lack both character of the old bikes you mentioned, as well as budget spec materials and build quality.

No there's nothing really to get excited over, but maybe they'll never sell enough beginners bikes to care? That's how the bike world is today.

As a counter point to your last bike comparison, how about if you were offered a Gladius engine in a nice light alloy trellis frame like the gen1 SV had, but lighter, sharper and with Fireblade spec levels of brakes, suspension and build quality at a Gladius price? The old smoker might not be the best real world option then?


Yeah, maybe... That does already exist though, it's called the MT07SP.
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 16 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guido wrote:
In answer to one of the questions,

One of the guys I was talking to had a ‘94 fireblade, one had a ‘03 hayabusa and one I think had a triumph tiger.

Personally I only wanted to get into riding because I love the sports bikes.
I’m big into cars and I’m a trained mechanic so I’m always tinkering. I have a 4x4 (a proper one) I’m always going off road or shifting stuff strapped to the roof rack or carrying people about.
So when I get a bike it’s really gonna be for me and my pleasure.

I love the the riding positions of sports bikes and some sports tourers, It maybe daft, but I would love a big fat back tyre (I know I know, until I have to replace one 😁)

I’d buy a car with my brain and my principles ( I will NOT drive a front wheel drive car). Unless it was a classic, then I’d get my heart involved
Whereas a bike would be completely the opposite. It’d be all heart.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t making a big mistake, I’ve taken all your comments on board so thanks again guys!


Get yourself an inline 4 sports 600 if that's really why you wanted a bike in the first place. Something you can afford to crash though as your first bike. I'd say something like a late 90s or early 2000s zx6r. Expect to drop it at some point though.
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