Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Hug Trees a little.

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 14, 15, 16  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:34 - 18 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


Riddle me this: posit a 3 degree global drop in temperatures from the 1850 perfection point.

What would that look like?



I don't know. What I do know though is that change happens like you said some people are preparing for it. Others won't until it's far too late.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:02 - 19 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's sad, if only we could get back to 1850 when everything was perfect and there was no want or injustice anywhere.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:36 - 19 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It's sad, if only we could get back to 1850 when everything was perfect and there was no want or injustice anywhere.


Ah, but the bottom feeders could be recruited into the army or navy. Whipped (and I mean whipped) into shape and sent to shoot some darkies.

The ones that didn't could be dangled on a rope or sent for a holiday in Australia.

Us upper class could then live in luxury off their backs.

God, I should have been alive then. Thumbs Up
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:41 - 19 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd posit that getting back to a Victorian climate would mean living with Victorian era technology, social structure, and population. So, silver linings if the ecomentals get their way.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 03:28 - 20 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Lord Percy wrote:
but have no issue with dumping CO2 into the atmosphere at well-above-natural rates

What alien species raised CO2 levels to 5,000 ppm in the past?

Lord Percy wrote:
which can't be reversed in any way once the step-too-far point is reached?

What alien species lowered CO2 levels from 5,000 ppm in the past to the near catastrophic 200 ppm that nearly ended all life on earth?


You really have no concept of geography, physics or planetary science. That much is blindingly obvious, if you think natural climate cycles are anything at all comparable to the rapid and never-before-seen changes being brought about by humanity in the modern era. Oh you can't see it with your own eyes so it isn't happening, right Laughing ?

The only comparable (but admittedly too extreme) examples would be asteroids or super-volcanoes. The 'extinction event' types.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:55 - 20 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
You really have no concept of geography, physics or planetary science.

Partisan charlatanism is rather easy to spot, isn't it?


Lord Percy wrote:
The only comparable (but admittedly too extreme) examples would be asteroids or super-volcanoes. The 'extinction event' types.

We're discounting semi-super volcanoes, then? Either the world ends, or nothing changes?

We may be talking cross purposes. I'm saying two things.

First, that CO2 is inherently beneficial to life, vital even. The more the greenier. If there are negative consequences to having more, then we should look for ways of dealing with them rather than decrying CO2 as a pollutant.

Second, that the climate change industry is an industry, and that it exists to market the idea that there is a problem to which it can sell a solution. Even if we accept (and I don't) that CO2 is a problem, trillion dollah greenwashing programs like bird shredders and clean electric cars aren't going to make a dent in it.

I know you're all dressed up in your shiny new Scienceman cape and tights, but perhaps we don't actually need you to swoop in and save the world? Perhaps the world will just get on with things without much fuss?

It's OK, you can wear hemp sandals and claim credit for it not ending.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:23 - 20 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
We've had enough of experts!


Wink

CO2 isn't a pollutant, it's a greenhouse gas.

We can at least agree on there being not much chance of anything changing for the long term good. It would be nice if we had more nuke power plants and tons of electric railway lines, but that would take lots of state-sized action, which apparently is A Very Bad Thing. So we're stuck with old diesels and still no high speed lines because it's in nobody's financial interest to do anything different.

I suspect the first real call to action will be when Florida has more flooded days than not flooded days, because western politics is reactionary instead of strategic.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:52 - 20 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
We've had enough of experts!

Like doctors writing for The Lancet.

Lord Percy wrote:
CO2 isn't a pollutant, it's a greenhouse gas.

Lies. Doctors writing for The Lancet referred to CO2 and air pollution interchangeably. Are you sure you're a scientician? Do you write editorials for The Lancet?


Lord Percy wrote:
We can at least agree on there being not much chance of anything changing for the long term good.

I disagree: things are changing for the long term good. CO2 is good. We should put more into the biosphere.


Lord Percy wrote:
I suspect the first real call to action will be when Florida has more flooded days than not flooded days, because western politics is reactionary instead of strategic.

When do you suspect that will be?

Short enough that we can disprove your prediction like other one that's been wrong to date, or long enough that it's no better than a random guess?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Jewlio Rides Again LLB
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:32 - 23 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borgysaurus Rekt wrote:

Lies. Doctors writing for The Lancet referred to CO2 and air pollution interchangeably. Are you sure you're a scientician? Do you write editorials for The Lancet?


https://econ.st/2JVhg9w
____________________
Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
HAHAHA HAHAHA Blew Chilly MyCrowSystems
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:12 - 01 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little comic aside: Save the oceans - stop recycling plastic.

Sure, in theory, it's great. In practice, we're just sending it to East Asia, counting it as "recycled", and then looking the other way as they burn or dump it. As I've long suspected, now confirmed by actual ecomentals.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

bhinso
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:01 - 02 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently there's a real shortage in CO2 meaning you can't get some beers at the moment.
But levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are apparently sky rocketing.
Couldn't we just pipe some of the excess down into our beers?
inb4 idea stolen
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Jewlio Rides Again LLB
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:39 - 02 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
Apparently there's a real shortage in CO2 meaning you can't get some beers at the moment.
But levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are apparently sky rocketing.
Couldn't we just pipe some of the excess down into our beers?
inb4 idea stolen


Don't be silly. Know when it absolutely pisses down from about November to March, then we have the hosepipe ban in May? Same idea, different subject. Wrong type of rain/CO2.
____________________
Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
HAHAHA HAHAHA Blew Chilly MyCrowSystems
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Mart_er6
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:12 - 03 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

First, that CO2 is inherently beneficial to life, vital even. The more the greenier. If there are negative consequences to having more, then we should look for ways of dealing with them rather than decrying CO2 as a pollutant.


Partly agree. If the world was getting greener, then CO2 would stop increasing(due to absorption by plants/trees etc.). But it's not(probably because humans disrupt the natural feedback by chopping stuff down), which means your idea of global greening counteracting greenhouse effect warming is not matching simple observations. Where I do agree is how we're dealing with the problem; we should be looking at ways to actively remove CO2 from the atmosphere; eg. genetically engineered plants(kill-switch vital!), rather than carbon credits or unrealistic targets from bloated climate conferences. We should be promoting female education worldwide (tends to reduce family sizes; CO2 isn't the root cause of pollution, humans are).

Link to simple CO2 measurement result showing green goodness not stopping its increase:

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/


Quote:

Second, that the climate change industry is an industry, and that it exists to market the idea that there is a problem to which it can sell a solution.


Agreed, but it did get me some solar panels with a nice subsidy so please pipe down!
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:25 - 03 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
If the world was getting greener, then CO2 would stop increasing

It could be increasing at a slower rate than if greening were not happening.


Mart_er6 wrote:
your idea of global greening counteracting greenhouse effect warming is not matching simple observations.

It's not my idea and the simple observations are that it is happening.

Don't take my word for it, teh Graunad confirms.


Mart_er6 wrote:
we should be looking at ways to actively remove CO2 from the atmosphere

Why?

Mart_er6 wrote:
CO2 isn't the root cause of pollution

CO2 isn't "pollution". It's plant food.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Mart_er6
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:00 - 03 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

It could be increasing at a slower rate than if greening were not happening.


Maybe so, but the fact is CO2 is still going up so the greening is not keeping up.


Rogerborg wrote:

It's not my idea and the simple observations are that it is happening.

Don't take my word for it, teh Graunad confirms.


I wouldn't dispute greenery providing some feedback in the global climate system.


Rogerborg wrote:

Why?


To help maintain a reasonable global average temperature. Some people (like yourself perhaps) may prefer a warmer global average temp and that's fair enough, but note that may encourage more people to head our way... (see boat migrant thread)


Rogerborg wrote:
It's plant food.


Never seen it in the B&Q plant food section (usually nitrogen based stuff there). But I catch yer drift, see previous paragraphs about said "plant food" not being absorbed as quickly as we produce it. Probably because there's too many people chopping down green before it can do its job..
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:14 - 03 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
To help maintain a reasonable global average temperature. Some people (like yourself perhaps) may prefer a warmer global average temp and that's fair enough

https://climatism.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/global-warming-smackdown-arctic-midsummer-freeze.png?w=590

But in $CURRENT_YEAR, ships are trapped in port by midsummer Arctic ice.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Mart_er6
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:18 - 03 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rogerborg"]
Mart_er6 wrote:


Common climate noobie error. Calendar midsummer is not the time of minimum ice coverage at the north pole.
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:34 - 03 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
Common climate noobie error. Calendar midsummer is not the time of minimum ice coverage at the north pole.

But it's still not all gone as we've been repeatedly assured by the climate alarmism industry.

Maybe next time they shriek that a wolf, a wolf is coming, they'll be right.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:35 - 04 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly you have no idea what you're on about. It borders on religious fanaticism, the way you've made up and believe this personal idea that not much is wrong because plants like carbon dioxide so yay everything will be lush and green. Proper make-it-up theory.

On the topic of melting arctic ice. Thoughts on this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Disappearing_Ice.webm

Keep in mind this is a planet, not a garden pond. The rate at which those changes have happened in the Arctic are definitely something worth worrying about.

Interesting interactive chart here too: https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/ - Note the blatant reduction in sea ice levels between the averages for 1979-1990, 1990-2000, and 2000-2010. Oh but it hasn't all gone yet, so all those alarmists were just silly incorrect alarmists who were definitely wrong completely.

Also I don't understand why you're constantly ignoring the fact that human-induced environmental changes are happening at a rate that evolution can't keep up with. Elephant in the room?


Last edited by Lord Percy on 14:44 - 04 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:37 - 04 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Mart_er6 wrote:
Common climate noobie error. Calendar midsummer is not the time of minimum ice coverage at the north pole.

But it's still not all gone as we've been repeatedly assured by the climate alarmism industry.


Funny how you willingly notice when the media uses alarmist stories to make money on climate hype, but gladly ingest every last negative and hyperbolic story about immigrants and 'dindus' because in that instance it suits a view you want to maintain.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:14 - 04 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Honestly you have no idea what you're on about.

Great to hear that you've changed your academic aspirations again. How long did it take to convert to climatology?


Lord Percy wrote:
plants like carbon dioxide so yay everything will be lush and green.

Farmers pump CO2 into greenhouses to produce bumper crops because religious fanaticism? Thinking


Lord Percy wrote:
On the topic of melting arctic ice. Thoughts on this?

tl;dw.


Lord Percy wrote:
The rate at which those changes have happened in the Arctic are definitely something worth worrying about.

Worrying about it solves what?


Lord Percy wrote:
Also I don't understand why you're constantly ignoring the fact that human-induced environmental changes are happening at a rate that evolution can't keep up with.

If we relied on evolution for our health and welfare we'd still be grinding up wild grass with our molars until we blessedly died in childbirth or got eaten by badgers at 14.

Let's give Science a chance, shall we? I'll put my faith in it, like a good fanatic should.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Mart_er6
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:00 - 04 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Interesting interactive chart here too: https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/ - Note the blatant reduction in sea ice levels between the averages for 1979-1990, 1990-2000, and 2000-2010. Oh but it hasn't all gone yet, so all those alarmists were just silly incorrect alarmists who were definitely wrong completely.


Nice link, seen all those charts before but the interface is neat. And yes, there's still ice left up there in autumn, almost the same as 30yrs ago actually (give or take a few million square kilometers).
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:18 - 05 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Honestly you have no idea what you're on about.

Great to hear that you've changed your academic aspirations again. How long did it take to convert to climatology?


Lord Percy wrote:
plants like carbon dioxide so yay everything will be lush and green.

Farmers pump CO2 into greenhouses to produce bumper crops because religious fanaticism? Thinking


Lord Percy wrote:
On the topic of melting arctic ice. Thoughts on this?

tl;dw.


Lord Percy wrote:
The rate at which those changes have happened in the Arctic are definitely something worth worrying about.

Worrying about it solves what?


Lord Percy wrote:
Also I don't understand why you're constantly ignoring the fact that human-induced environmental changes are happening at a rate that evolution can't keep up with.

If we relied on evolution for our health and welfare we'd still be grinding up wild grass with our molars until we blessedly died in childbirth or got eaten by badgers at 14.

Let's give Science a chance, shall we? I'll put my faith in it, like a good fanatic should.


Not even sure where to start with this. Proper make-it-up-on-the-spot-and-be-happy-with-it stuff.

You must at least know that CO2 in greenhouses is vastly different matter than CO2 in a planet's atmosphere.

Oh and climatology isn't the only thing that teaches people an understanding of planets and atmospheres. I've already told you CO2 is a greenhouse gas because of its quantum mechanical properties. The resonance frequency of CO2 matches infrared, so heat is caught and held in the atmosphere instead of passing into space. More heat means more melted snow, and a less reflective planet making for a lower albedo, so accelerated heating. This is all physics, not climatology, try to keep up.

You carry on trying to suggest I don't understand all this anyway. Easier than getting your head around it yourself, I know, but you don't learn anything by accusing other people of your own ignorance.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:22 - 05 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Proper make-it-up-on-the-spot-and-be-happy-with-it stuff.

Worrying about it solves what?


Lord Percy wrote:
You must at least know that CO2 in greenhouses is vastly different matter than CO2 in a planet's atmosphere.

Is it the carbons that are different, or the oxygens? I'm not sure that the tomatoes know whether they're in a greenhouse or, uh, a planet's atmosphere.


Lord Percy wrote:
The resonance frequency of CO2 matches infrared

Oh, vibrations, heat rays, gotchya. Standard 1930s SF tropes.

Since CO2 levels have been more than 10 times higher in the past, I look forward to battling unconvincingly animated rubber dinosaurs.

See, that would be the sort of alarmism that would actually be entertaining rather than tiresome. You're going to have to come up with a new marketing strategy to sell panic, since we're not buying it any more
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:52 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We have no idea where this charcoal came from so we'll assume it's bad and you should feel bad."

The eco-guilt industry, in a sustainable nutshell.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 5 years, 253 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 15 of 16

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.3 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 160.33 Kb