Larger sprocket

[chaza]

Hi guys
I have an ajs dd125e8, if I put a larger sprocket on the rear would that increase the overall speed of the bike.
And are larger sprockets available for this bike.
Thanks

[Evil Hans]

No.

A larger rear sprocket would do the opposite.
____________________
Triumph Sprint ST 1050. And it's Red.

[Rogerborg]

[chaza]

Thanks guys,
I think I'll abandon the idea,

Thanks again

[doggone]

It would effectively give you a bit more power and it might be better able to reach top speed whereas now you probably needed a slight downhill or tail wind to get there.
But top speed could be reduced by 5mph or whatever.
Fuel economy might be affected as you'll be revving that bit higher most likely.

[Rogerborg]

[WmY]

You should change both sprockets at the same time, or you will find fast "wear" of all components.

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh Kay, we seem to keep coming back round in a circle of frustration here.

Fact 1: The Regal Raptor DD125 is an anglo Chinese derivative of the Honda Benly, CD/CM/CB 'twins'; specifically the CM 'factory custom' that evolved under Honda into the 'Rebel' cruiser.

Fact 2: No 'Cruiser' is ever even remotely fast. The Yamaha V-Max, briefly claimed to be the worlds most powerful 'production' motorcycle, with aprox 140bhp, but it was still not the fastest. Takes more than brute power to go fast, even only in a straight line, and clue is in the title, cruisers are designed to 'cruise' not race.

Fact 3: AJS Regal, is one of many chinese derivative motorcycles, made to essentially obsolete japanese designs on often obsolete japanese tooling; predominanly for depevloping asian markets, where, in reverse to the UK and other Western markets, labour is cheap and metal expensive; so they can build them down to a price throwing labour at them, instead of better quality parts; and when they break, they can again chuck labour at them.

Here in the UK, we have a high labour market; products, especially ones imported from low labour areas, can be cheap, but the looking after them is just as expensive, and if they are, like so many Chinese built bikes, built down to a quality, anticipating low labour costs, hence a higher level of anticipated maintenance, very quickly the 'cheap' they suggest in the show-room can pale, in the reality of the 'expensive' servicing... or the bikes, in the hands of DIY bodgers become very second hand very quickly.

AJS-Regal, is possibly one of the better built chinese bikes. The Regal group have been 'over-seeing' out-sourced assembly and manufacture of motorcycles since the mid 1970's, when in the wake of the BSA collapse, they were left holding the bag to fulfil BSA's contracts to supply and support a lot of former colonial 'services' in Africa and Asia, like the post office or police force, with BSA Bantams, no longer made in Small Heath. As spares ran dry to build and support the Bantams, they went into partnership with Yamaha, to make a derivative of the 125/175 twinshock DT, for the developing markets that had been buying bantams.

As the Japanese started to divest small displacement models for 'other markets' to local satalite plants, and with the surrender of Hong Kong in '97, Regal were well placed to exploit the newly opening Chinese market, to buy chinese built bikes for export, and utilise 'cheap' Chinese labour to continue manufacture of motorcycles, notionally with a little more design input and quality control.

The 'Raptor', based on a Chinese built Honda Rebel, formerly one of Honda's 'premium' learner legals, was then one of the better designed, better built and better QC's examples of the Chinese bike offerings... was still, however not that wonderful.. the finish was particularly poor, with instant-rust exhausts and brightwork; anything shiney soon lost its laquer, seats popped zips and stitching and buttons, and performance was distinctly sub standard, whilst show-room prices were actually NOT all that 'cheap'.

Somewhere we have the original sales invoice for Snowie's 2005 example; and OTMH it cost 'new' just shy of £2K OTR, which was actually about the same as a brand new Yamaha YBR.. what you got instead of hum-drum looks and performance and a nationwide dealer network of after market support; was a twin cylinder engine, two exhaust pipes; lots of chrome and the sort of looks that if you had bought a 'real' Honda, by then the Veradaro V-Twin 'Shaddow', would have cost you almost double....

55mph.... though was and I believe still is, the Chinese speed limit for a 125 motorcycle. Both on the road and in the market place.

With only 10-11bhp made by the single carb 'Benly/Rebel' engine, detuned by old tooling and small design tweeks, to something more like 9bhp, it STILL had to be 'restricted' by gearing to the Asian 55mph limit.

THIS is why they are NOT 'fast' bikes, and never will be.

9bhp.. you showed twin CV carbs, which suggests a later variant utilising a derivative of the Honda CB125TD-
J engine. That was significantly de-tuned by Honda in the late 80's to meet impending emmission controls.

The Honda CB125T, of 1977, was Honda's offering to rival the then to-stroke twins, that offered around 15-17bhp. Honda had to make its flag-ship models as powerful and fast as the two-strokes, at the time, and tweeking the humble Benley engine, giving it a very hot cam-shaft and twin carburettors, they probably succeeded, with a claimed 17bhp from the thing.. and it remains one of the most powerful 'production' 4-stroke 125's ever built... its more powerful than a modern fuel injected CBR125, or YZF-R125, or even the V-Twin Veradaro/Shadow... worth noting that even so, it could only just about top 80mph, with a much smaller frontal area than cruiser styling allows....

The CB125TD-C and later TD-E, were de tuned for the Euro market, significantly the UK 125 Learner laws that permitted only 12.5bhp. Mostly the 'reduced effect' motors were de-tuned by smaller carbs and a less agresive cam-shaft profile.

A Small number of 'full-power' CB125TDC/E were made with the larger carbs and more agressive cam for other Euro markets, noteably Itally and Switzerland, but up against the, by then, full power water-cooled two-strokes, they sold poorly, even by UK standards where Honda had expected to sell in similar volume to the CB250 Super-Dream.... and were still discounting and selling early 125 Super-Dreams that had sat in a where-house for almost half a decade, right up until the laucnch of the 'cost cutting' TD-J model, they expected to sell well in the '90's as emmission controls bit the two-strokes. It still didn't!

TD-J.. had the earlier TDC/E motor's 180 degree crank shaft rather than the benley/rebels 360 degree one. But got probably the softest cam profile of the entire Benly family to meet emmision controls, and on twin CV carbs, it only just managed to make CD/CM single carb power of around 10/11bhp.

BUT, with production transfered to China, that engine, with Hi-Vo cam-chain, and twin CV cabs and soft cam, was the one that ultimately became the most likely to meet ever tightening Euro Emmision controls, without having to go water-cooled.

Which was a design mod Regal actually incorporated to the thing on the very last fuel injected, and least powerful models of Raptor.

BOTTOM LINE!!!!!

The AJS Regal-Raptor DD125E... is and was and forever WILL be a rather over chromed, cheap and slow chink...

Brand new it wasn't much of a bargain, but second hand, it was, when Chinky-Bike depresiation struck.

Always said, IF you know enough to live with a chink, you probably know enough NOT to buy one to start with. They are high maintenance machines of low performance, and even lower resale, that does not make them particularly ecconimical to give the sort of expensive maintenance they probably deserve.

Snowies 2005 model... cost her 1/4 the list price at barely its first MOT at three and a bit years old.

She struggled to get parts, because no one had ever heard of it, and it wasn't in the catalogues, and 'dealer support' was dire, and more interested in selling tassled throw-overs than a new chain and spockets.

It was however 'Cheap'. A taxed and tested, ready to ride motorcycle, for just £500, with a brand new MOT? That might have got her a spare or repairs project base by way of a Yamaha TZR or Honda NS. She might have got an old Kawasaki KH100 or 125 for the money, but probably scraggy and thrashed half to death.... basically nothing so new, or potentially as 'reliable'.

A-N-D to give the Raptor its due, it WAS reliable! For three years it started on the button when she wanted to use it. Sorting out getting a chain the right length took a bit more ingenuity, but taking off the old one, measuring it up and counting links got us there, without a catalogue.

Checking plug specs and buying to the grade that was in there, worked; setting tappets to the book for the Benly, worked and DID MARVELS for throttle response and top end.... it actually did 55 up mild inclines after!

BUT, trying to make it ANY faster.... was going to be futile.

As said, the engine it was based on was the original CM Rebel lump, with single carb, offering about 10bhp.

The CB motor, in reduced effect offered 12.5 in good fettle. And lots of interchangeability of parts... BUT 360 crank, denied using the 180- timed cam-shaft from either the TDC/E or earlier T. So, it was never, without a TDC/E crank, going to make more than 9-10 bhp, or go much faster.

And, even if a the full 17bhp of an early T2 motor could be found.... even that wouldn't shove a cruiser styled motorcycle to much over 65mph.

Hint, most powerful of the Benly family bikes was the Honda CD250 'u'. Misnamed as tradictionally all the CD's were single carbed 'tourers' whilst the CB's were twin carbed 'sports', we think they got it the wong way round for the very last 250 twins... the CB got a single carb and 19bhp, the CD 'u' got twin carb and 21 bhp.. which in the CMX250 'rebel' the crusier style one, JUST about managed to nudge 80-mph.

Like I said, this is NOT a fast bike; more it does not even have the basic ingredients to make into an even moderately less slow one.

Forget trying to balence your carbs, at best, fiddling with those things all you will achieve is making more problems.

If you look in profile, I actually provide a 'how-to' balence carbs, and use a 125 Super-Dream as example; and the very first statement is straightr from the Haynes and that it is the very LAST thing you do to fine tune a well serviced and well set up engine... not the first!

Those carbs, have 'bonded' diagphrams on the carb slides. You cannon buy new diagphrams, only complete new slides. And the diagphrams tear easily. As said, mes with them at your peril you are more likely to make problems than solve them, and a new pair of carbs from China is actuially cheaper than the new slides, when you realise you cant replace the rubber bits.

You want 'faster'; GEARING? it is sped limited to 55mph by the gearing. It will take Honda Rebel sprockets, BUT, that bike had more power and was still slow. Raise the gearing, it will NOT go any faster than it does, because it simply doesn't have the power to go faster.

Try and find more power then so you might pull taler gears or more revs. You could, rebuilding the engine to the very first CB125T spec, possibly get 17bhp almost double what it likely made when new.... But, you will struggle to get the 309 cam shaft that a T2 motor used to get that much power; and struggle with carbs to match it.

Cheaper and simpler to chuck in one of the 233cc engines from a CB Two-Fifty or CM/X 250, or CD250... which would give you about 19/20bhp, and on the right gearing just enbough to break the duel-carriageway speed limit in the UK.

The 233 motors are bolt for bolt interchangeable in the frame for a 125, and its interesting that Regal actually sold 'some' Raptors with the promice that they would fit a 233 engine to one if you brought back a full licence.... I dont know if they ever did.... but I know that the 233 motor slots straight in... I have done it! Does, though take some mods to make carbs and ignition work, but still.... pottential is there.

Its just no longer 'Learner Legal'

And even with possibly 20bhp... its STILL a slow bike. Its still barely a 70mph motorcycle, and barely has the power to keep up with the two-stroke 125's, many of them even still restricted, not just to mopdern A1/LL power limit of 14.5bhp, but even the older 12.5 one!

To wit.. if you want 'fast' you have the wrong bike.

The AJS Regal Raptor DD125 is not, and never will be 'fast'.

What it IS is ecconomical. Second hand they are very cheap to buy; they can run pretty much like a swiss watch, if you dont dick with them, service them half diligently keeping an eye on the tappet clearances and oil changes, and the colour of the spark plugs.

And they will waft past petrol stations laughing at the fact they have put the prices up twice since you last filled up.

Just NOT very quickly.

In the city... I never found that much of an issue. A 30mph speed limit is a 30mph speed limit; and makes little odds whether you are doing 30 past a yellow Scamera box on a Raptor, or a Hyabusa...

Out of town? Using the gears properly... something many learners struggle with, but giving that tough little lump some thrashing, to get the most out of it I could... 55mph..... could still break me a lot of speed limits... and was particularly fun come the corners... where limited ground clearance challenged my riding skills to lean the little bludger into them full tilt.... Rock hard ecconomy rubber was another inhibitor... but the weight of Snowie on the back did help.... as long as she wasn't beating me round the skid-lid screaming as I did it!!!

60mph duel carriageways? Yup, not the most fun place to be... but they give them two lanes in either direction, Audi enema can use the other one!

60mph national speed limit country roads?! Yeah, not got the Audicoch lane but, see above, thrashed a bit bike can handle them, and most are 50 limit not 60 now,. and even the 50 limits are shrunk by the 40 'extender' zones tagged on the ends of the 30 limits through the villages.

You CAN make progress...

I know, I have lived with one of the damn things, and done it, even two up.

IF you get frustrated by it, you have the wrong bike.

IF you think that a faster bike will be 'better' then you probably need to recalibrate your ideas first. IF you cant get the best out of moped or low powered chink, you will not get the best out of anything else, and all any more power or speed will do it make up for your inadequesies or elevated expectations.... and that will likely not help you any, just get you into trouble quicker... so think long and hard.

Regal raptor DD125E... its slow, but generally reliable, and incredibly ecconomical... learn to apreciate what the bike DOES offer, not critisise it for what it dont.

If you dont want cheap, and ecconomical and reliable, get another bike, and learn to apreciate that for what it offers... probably faster (still not fast!) less ecconomical, and likely a lot less ecconomical and probably hugely less reliable... IF the performance is THAT important to you... then go for it, but be prepared to pay for it, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Rogerborg]

[chaza]

Thanks guys
I think I'll leave the bike as it is ,I get she is not a fast bike, but I take what was said, I like what she is, I could just do with a tad more when I'm stuck behind a lorry and don't have the power to overtake.


Thanks