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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:02 - 19 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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It's sad, if only we could get back to 1850 when everything was perfect and there was no want or injustice anywhere. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 10:41 - 19 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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I'd posit that getting back to a Victorian climate would mean living with Victorian era technology, social structure, and population. So, silver linings if the ecomentals get their way. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:55 - 20 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: | You really have no concept of geography, physics or planetary science. |
Partisan charlatanism is rather easy to spot, isn't it?
Lord Percy wrote: | The only comparable (but admittedly too extreme) examples would be asteroids or super-volcanoes. The 'extinction event' types. |
We're discounting semi-super volcanoes, then? Either the world ends, or nothing changes?
We may be talking cross purposes. I'm saying two things.
First, that CO2 is inherently beneficial to life, vital even. The more the greenier. If there are negative consequences to having more, then we should look for ways of dealing with them rather than decrying CO2 as a pollutant.
Second, that the climate change industry is an industry, and that it exists to market the idea that there is a problem to which it can sell a solution. Even if we accept (and I don't) that CO2 is a problem, trillion dollah greenwashing programs like bird shredders and clean electric cars aren't going to make a dent in it.
I know you're all dressed up in your shiny new Scienceman cape and tights, but perhaps we don't actually need you to swoop in and save the world? Perhaps the world will just get on with things without much fuss?
It's OK, you can wear hemp sandals and claim credit for it not ending. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:52 - 20 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: | Rogerborg wrote: | We've had enough of experts! |
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Like doctors writing for The Lancet.
Lord Percy wrote: | CO2 isn't a pollutant, it's a greenhouse gas. |
Lies. Doctors writing for The Lancet referred to CO2 and air pollution interchangeably. Are you sure you're a scientician? Do you write editorials for The Lancet?
Lord Percy wrote: | We can at least agree on there being not much chance of anything changing for the long term good. |
I disagree: things are changing for the long term good. CO2 is good. We should put more into the biosphere.
Lord Percy wrote: | I suspect the first real call to action will be when Florida has more flooded days than not flooded days, because western politics is reactionary instead of strategic. |
When do you suspect that will be?
Short enough that we can disprove your prediction like other one that's been wrong to date, or long enough that it's no better than a random guess? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2015 Karma :
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 07:12 - 01 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Little comic aside: Save the oceans - stop recycling plastic.
Sure, in theory, it's great. In practice, we're just sending it to East Asia, counting it as "recycled", and then looking the other way as they burn or dump it. As I've long suspected, now confirmed by actual ecomentals. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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Mart_er6 |
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Mart_er6 Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 07:12 - 03 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: |
First, that CO2 is inherently beneficial to life, vital even. The more the greenier. If there are negative consequences to having more, then we should look for ways of dealing with them rather than decrying CO2 as a pollutant.
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Partly agree. If the world was getting greener, then CO2 would stop increasing(due to absorption by plants/trees etc.). But it's not(probably because humans disrupt the natural feedback by chopping stuff down), which means your idea of global greening counteracting greenhouse effect warming is not matching simple observations. Where I do agree is how we're dealing with the problem; we should be looking at ways to actively remove CO2 from the atmosphere; eg. genetically engineered plants(kill-switch vital!), rather than carbon credits or unrealistic targets from bloated climate conferences. We should be promoting female education worldwide (tends to reduce family sizes; CO2 isn't the root cause of pollution, humans are).
Link to simple CO2 measurement result showing green goodness not stopping its increase:
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/
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Second, that the climate change industry is an industry, and that it exists to market the idea that there is a problem to which it can sell a solution. |
Agreed, but it did get me some solar panels with a nice subsidy so please pipe down! ____________________ Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:25 - 03 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Mart_er6 wrote: | If the world was getting greener, then CO2 would stop increasing |
It could be increasing at a slower rate than if greening were not happening.
Mart_er6 wrote: | your idea of global greening counteracting greenhouse effect warming is not matching simple observations. |
It's not my idea and the simple observations are that it is happening.
Don't take my word for it, teh Graunad confirms.
Mart_er6 wrote: | we should be looking at ways to actively remove CO2 from the atmosphere |
Why?
Mart_er6 wrote: | CO2 isn't the root cause of pollution |
CO2 isn't "pollution". It's plant food. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Mart_er6 |
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Mart_er6 Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 20:00 - 03 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: |
It could be increasing at a slower rate than if greening were not happening. |
Maybe so, but the fact is CO2 is still going up so the greening is not keeping up.
Rogerborg wrote: |
It's not my idea and the simple observations are that it is happening.
Don't take my word for it, teh Graunad confirms.
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I wouldn't dispute greenery providing some feedback in the global climate system.
To help maintain a reasonable global average temperature. Some people (like yourself perhaps) may prefer a warmer global average temp and that's fair enough, but note that may encourage more people to head our way... (see boat migrant thread)
Rogerborg wrote: | It's plant food. |
Never seen it in the B&Q plant food section (usually nitrogen based stuff there). But I catch yer drift, see previous paragraphs about said "plant food" not being absorbed as quickly as we produce it. Probably because there's too many people chopping down green before it can do its job.. ____________________ Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Mart_er6 |
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Mart_er6 Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 21:18 - 03 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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[quote="Rogerborg"]
Common climate noobie error. Calendar midsummer is not the time of minimum ice coverage at the north pole. ____________________ Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 14:35 - 04 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Honestly you have no idea what you're on about. It borders on religious fanaticism, the way you've made up and believe this personal idea that not much is wrong because plants like carbon dioxide so yay everything will be lush and green. Proper make-it-up theory.
On the topic of melting arctic ice. Thoughts on this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Disappearing_Ice.webm
Keep in mind this is a planet, not a garden pond. The rate at which those changes have happened in the Arctic are definitely something worth worrying about.
Interesting interactive chart here too: https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/ - Note the blatant reduction in sea ice levels between the averages for 1979-1990, 1990-2000, and 2000-2010. Oh but it hasn't all gone yet, so all those alarmists were just silly incorrect alarmists who were definitely wrong completely.
Also I don't understand why you're constantly ignoring the fact that human-induced environmental changes are happening at a rate that evolution can't keep up with. Elephant in the room?
Last edited by Lord Percy on 14:44 - 04 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:14 - 04 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: | Honestly you have no idea what you're on about. |
Great to hear that you've changed your academic aspirations again. How long did it take to convert to climatology?
Lord Percy wrote: | plants like carbon dioxide so yay everything will be lush and green. |
Farmers pump CO2 into greenhouses to produce bumper crops because religious fanaticism?
Lord Percy wrote: | On the topic of melting arctic ice. Thoughts on this? |
tl;dw.
Lord Percy wrote: | The rate at which those changes have happened in the Arctic are definitely something worth worrying about. |
Worrying about it solves what?
Lord Percy wrote: | Also I don't understand why you're constantly ignoring the fact that human-induced environmental changes are happening at a rate that evolution can't keep up with. |
If we relied on evolution for our health and welfare we'd still be grinding up wild grass with our molars until we blessedly died in childbirth or got eaten by badgers at 14.
Let's give Science a chance, shall we? I'll put my faith in it, like a good fanatic should. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Mart_er6 |
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Mart_er6 Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 20:00 - 04 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Nice link, seen all those charts before but the interface is neat. And yes, there's still ice left up there in autumn, almost the same as 30yrs ago actually (give or take a few million square kilometers). ____________________ Honda Varadero XL125 "Vara" > Kawasaki ER6F "Smerf" > Triumph Sprint ST 1050 |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 02:18 - 05 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | Lord Percy wrote: | Honestly you have no idea what you're on about. |
Great to hear that you've changed your academic aspirations again. How long did it take to convert to climatology?
Lord Percy wrote: | plants like carbon dioxide so yay everything will be lush and green. |
Farmers pump CO2 into greenhouses to produce bumper crops because religious fanaticism?
Lord Percy wrote: | On the topic of melting arctic ice. Thoughts on this? |
tl;dw.
Lord Percy wrote: | The rate at which those changes have happened in the Arctic are definitely something worth worrying about. |
Worrying about it solves what?
Lord Percy wrote: | Also I don't understand why you're constantly ignoring the fact that human-induced environmental changes are happening at a rate that evolution can't keep up with. |
If we relied on evolution for our health and welfare we'd still be grinding up wild grass with our molars until we blessedly died in childbirth or got eaten by badgers at 14.
Let's give Science a chance, shall we? I'll put my faith in it, like a good fanatic should. |
Not even sure where to start with this. Proper make-it-up-on-the-spot-and-be-happy-with-it stuff.
You must at least know that CO2 in greenhouses is vastly different matter than CO2 in a planet's atmosphere.
Oh and climatology isn't the only thing that teaches people an understanding of planets and atmospheres. I've already told you CO2 is a greenhouse gas because of its quantum mechanical properties. The resonance frequency of CO2 matches infrared, so heat is caught and held in the atmosphere instead of passing into space. More heat means more melted snow, and a less reflective planet making for a lower albedo, so accelerated heating. This is all physics, not climatology, try to keep up.
You carry on trying to suggest I don't understand all this anyway. Easier than getting your head around it yourself, I know, but you don't learn anything by accusing other people of your own ignorance. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:22 - 05 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: | Proper make-it-up-on-the-spot-and-be-happy-with-it stuff. |
Worrying about it solves what?
Lord Percy wrote: | You must at least know that CO2 in greenhouses is vastly different matter than CO2 in a planet's atmosphere. |
Is it the carbons that are different, or the oxygens? I'm not sure that the tomatoes know whether they're in a greenhouse or, uh, a planet's atmosphere.
Lord Percy wrote: | The resonance frequency of CO2 matches infrared |
Oh, vibrations, heat rays, gotchya. Standard 1930s SF tropes.
Since CO2 levels have been more than 10 times higher in the past, I look forward to battling unconvincingly animated rubber dinosaurs.
See, that would be the sort of alarmism that would actually be entertaining rather than tiresome. You're going to have to come up with a new marketing strategy to sell panic, since we're not buying it any more ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 320 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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