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Yamaha GT50, tiny 2T goodness!

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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 31 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been doing some minor tinkering.
Having sorted the ignition switch out I thought I 'd have a go at restoring the plastic housing and try to get it back to black.

Gave it a once over with a plastic scourer, then had a go with some of this:-

Sonax Extreme Plastic Restorer

https://www.sonax.com/var/storage/images/_aliases/4_3_480_padded_portrait/media/catalog/packshots/210141/1349683-16-eng-GB/210141.png

Worked very well indeed, what was faded grey is now black, it's not perfect but it has done a great job.
If you have some black plastics to restore this is definitely worth a shot! Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another product called aerospace 303 which is a UV blocker for use on plastics to prevent sun damage. It does seem to bring them back up pretty well too but in any case, having got them nice, it can help to keep them nice. Could prove very handy in Cyprus especially.

I think of it as being like the ACF50 of plastic.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 01 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can make a new float bowl gasket by cutting one out of card. eg cornflakes packet.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
You can make a new float bowl gasket by cutting one out of card. eg cornflakes packet.


I was thinking along those lines, I might have a go.
When I'm back in the UK I'll order a repair kit.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the smaller holes that are the tricky bit, I'm not far from buying a proper hole punch set for that particular job because i seem to make a lot of gaskets but one of the single hole punches you get for stationary works ok-ish...

... Actually, I just bought one on ebay, less than £3. Probably cheap shite and I'd not want to use them for leather but should be ok for card/paper.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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-Monty-
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
You can make a new float bowl gasket by cutting one out of card. eg cornflakes packet.


Sorry for the slight thread hi-jack, but do you have any tips for this? I have tried it a couple of times and it hasn't worked, and I begrudge having to pay £5 plus postage for a replacement gasket.

Also, this project is looking really good. I love old little 2 strokes like this. Any plans for this coming to the BBQ?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 02 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Monty- wrote:
Any plans for this coming to the BBQ?


Unfortunately or fortunately, depending how you look at things, the bike resides in Cyprus, it is small but I'm certain I can't get it in a suitcase!

Anyway, there will be some actual photos soon.

One problem I haven't mentioned yet, is the clutch is stuck, no doubt the result of the engine being stored, unloved, for 5 years.
The clutch will have to come out. Even if I managed to free it without removing it, I suspect the steel plates will need cleaning off.
Something to look forward to, eh. Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Monty- wrote:

Sorry for the slight thread hi-jack, but do you have any tips for this? I have tried it a couple of times and it hasn't worked, and I begrudge having to pay £5 plus postage for a replacement gasket.

Also, this project is looking really good. I love old little 2 strokes like this. Any plans for this coming to the BBQ?


In fairness, a float bowl could probably do with being a little thinner than cornflake packet, but a thick paper/thin card of similar type, or even but a roll of gasket paper.

If you have the old one, even if you need to piece it together, I'd draw round it then simply cut out round the outline with a craft knife/sharp scissors. As I say, small holes are a little trickier but either craft knife or some sort of hole punch. If you don't have the old one, you can either draw round the float bowl or put a little light oil on the gasket face and "print" the outline of it onto the card. Then cut round that.

Important bits are that any holes allowing ports to pass through the gasket are exactly in the right place and that there is no overlap on the inside, it can stick out a bit on the outside without a problem.
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ďRule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.Ē
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 04 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few bits I've been working on.

The speedo lens was quite hazy, I got it nice and clear by buffing it with some gel toothpaste followed by some wax polish, can't believe it was so easy, took all of 3 minutes!

The handle bar mounts and the alloy switch gear have not proved as easy, they're easy enough to polish but the actual castings are crap. To get rid of the casting marks I would have to remove too much material. The switch gear has the added problem of the tiny stickers, I know I could buy replacements but I simply can't polish them as well as I'd like so I don't see the point.

The mud flap, speedo and ignition mount have all been treated with the colour restorer I mentioned previously.

https://i.imgur.com/VP9eOWJ.jpg

A few parts I primed yesterday.
The headlight bowl had already been primed by the previous owner, he'd also left a tin of the brush on primer in the box of bits. Great, I thought, I wire wheeled the mudguard and headlight mounting brackets back to bare metal and set about them with the tin of primer.
This is where my problems started, I started with the headlight bowl, within a couple of minutes of applying a top coat the whole thing started reacting, no idea why, it was acrylic top coat.
I tried a bit on the mudguard and the same thing happened. Mad
It was back to the wire wheel where I stripped everything back to bare metal again.
The parts in the picture are primed with acrylic primer.
They've now had a coat of silver, I'll put a few coats of lacquer on them tomorrow.
I've no idea why I got a reaction with the original primer. The primer itself is "zinc phosphate primer", the headlight bowl had been primed 5 years ago, I assumed acrylic was pretty inert!

https://i.imgur.com/9lmcLzB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/feeeEqr.jpg

Headlight bowl has Cyberman aspirations!

https://i.imgur.com/bhGrrqm.jpg

The petrol tank has a few rust spots and there's been some varnish spilled on it. I've removed some of the varnish already and will get the rest of quite easily. I'll try and touch up the paint on the tank, I'm not going to respray it, I'm not prepared to pay to have it done, new decals will cost a fortune, and if I did it myself, I know from experience that the first time petrol drips on it, it'll be ruined.

So far I've spent about 150 euros on brake shoes, tyres, oils, a fuse holder, paint and wet and dry paper.
My shopping list looks like this:-

Sprocket Lock Tab Front 1.99
Sprocket Lock Tab Kit Rear 3.99
Sprocket Rear (39T) 7.99
Sprocket Front (12T) 2.99
Chain 20.00
Carb repair kit 20.00
Gasket set 15.00
Speedo Damper Rubber 3.99
Spark Plug Cap 2.99
Fuel Tank Mounting Rubber Front 3.98
Fuses 25mm Glass 10 Amps 2.00
Gearbox Drain Plug Washer 0.50
Clutch Push Rod Oil Seal 2.45
Fork Oil Seals 7.99
Clutch Push Rod 1.99
Inner tubes 20.00

So all in, if things go relatively easy, I reckon I can probably finish the whole thing for around £300! Mr. Green
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 07 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bits now painted, lacquered and polished.

https://i.imgur.com/nIgA7y1.jpg

Amongst other things today I did do this:-

https://i.imgur.com/5hF060T.jpg

Bit the bullet and decided to sort the sticking clutch out.
Got the crankcase bolts out with no mishaps, there was no way I was disconnecting the oil pump, hence the cable ties holding the casing up.
The plates were stuck together, you can see the marks here:-

https://i.imgur.com/f8JYoDE.jpg

I was surprised how easily the plates came apart, finger nail pressure was all it took, yet that was enough to overcome the force of the cable.
Cumulative effect no doubt.

The steel plates cleaned up nicely with some 800 grade wet 'n' dry and WD40.
All went back in with no problems, took less than half an hour from start to finish.
Unfortunately scraping the remains of the gasket of the crankcases took about an hour!
It's all back together now and the clutch is working as it should.
The only problem is I haven't got a gasket, so can't refill the oil. I'm hoping I can get a new gasket for it on Wednesday.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 07 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A tip I got off a multiple times UK NSA sprint champion for cleaning clutch slipper plates up is to stick the wet and dry to a sheet of glass with water then rub them on it with a side to side motion, rather than going round and round.

Maybe that's how you did it anyway but it hadn't occurred to me and makes sense in terms of preventing them immediately glazing up again. Effectively putting honing marks on the plates to bed the friction material onto.
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ďRule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.Ē
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 07 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
A tip I got off a multiple times UK NSA sprint champion for cleaning clutch slipper plates up is to stick the wet and dry to a sheet of glass with water then rub them on it with a side to side motion, rather than going round and round.

Maybe that's how you did it anyway but it hadn't occurred to me and makes sense in terms of preventing them immediately glazing up again. Effectively putting honing marks on the plates to bed the friction material onto.


Funny you should mention that, because the plates had side to side marks on them already, so i Just followed them.
TBH the 800 grade paper barely touched them and most of the marks came off with WD40 on it's own.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 17 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, some progress today.

I've been waiting on a crankcase gasket since I sorted the sticky clutch out, I got that today along with a clutch push rod oil seal, a kick start oil seal, a new chain and new sprockets.
I got that lot fitted after lunch, there were a few other niggles, I wasn't happy with the route of the oil pump cable, so it was off with the tank and exhaust just to get to the cable, got that sorted, filled up with gear box oil and decided to have a go at starting it.
Oddly the sprockets I took off the bike were 14/41 which are the ones specified for the 80cc version, I've put on 12/39 correct for 50cc.

It started on the second prod, I let it idle for a while then had a play around with the pilot air screw.
It runs ok, But I think it needs a good de-coke, top end and exhaust.
I can get a new piston, it's the gaskets that might prove tricky to find.
I still have a petrol leak from the carb, will order a repair kit for it next week.
Unfortunately the petrol tap vibrated loose so there was petrol everywhere, obviously I didn't tighten it up enough! Embarassed

Next major job will be replacing the fork seals.

I'm back to the wind and rain of the UK next week so there'll be no progress for the next month, just some parts ordering!

Oh, I forgot to say, apparently I annoyed the neighbours, that'll be the Russian, extended, family who are renting the house next door, the very same neighbours who never STFU from sunrise to sunset 7 days a week.
Well they can FRO!
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 10 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I havenít forgotten about this project, just had a few other things to do.
Anyway I managed to amass all the parts I needed, plus a couple of other goodies.

First thing I wanted to do was replace the crankcase screws, they were 40 year old phillips head jobbies, they werenít really knackered but a couple looked a bit dodgy.
One of my purchases was 40, 55mm, M6, cap head allen bolts, my intention was to cut each one down to size as I went along. Well that didnít go quite as planned, when I finally got round to opening the package all the bolts were shoulder bolts, with 35mm shoulders! Doh!
This meant I had to cut a new thread on every single one, before cutting to the final length!

I thought Iíd have a go at de-coking the exhaust.
I do have some caustic soda, which I didnít use, the reason being Iíve got nowhere to get rid of it here, no main sewers, just a small septic tank..
I ended up using some drain cleaner gel, it has worked partially, itís removed a lot of crud, but I can still see some chunks stuck in there. Iím probably going to use the heat gun method to sort it out finally.

Next up was a top end de-coke and rebuild.
I had been soaking the, rusty, cylinder head nuts in penetrating oil for a couple of weeks, that was a couple of months ago. All four nuts came off easily and didnít move the studs at all.

There was a nice layer of coke on the head and the piston, this came off, relatively, easily with some WD40 and a plastic scourer. I cleaned the ring grooves out with some soft copper wire.
The good news is the piston is in good condition, the rings seem ok, with just a tiny bit of blow by showing on the piston, itís not an oversize either.
Even better news, the cylinder liner is excellent, no scoring at all, a bit shiny but nothing to see really.
The bad news is that someone has been in the exhaust port previously, thereís some bad scoring in there from what I presume was an attempt at de-coking with a, fcukiní, chisel.
Iíve smoothed that out as best as I could, going up the numbers on wet and dry paper.

Here are the finished articles:-

https://i.imgur.com/hDnLnn9.jpg

As you can see Iíve also replaced the screws that hold the reed block in place with allen bolts, even with the carb off, it was virtually impossible to get a screwdriver in there to remove the screws. Hopefully it should be easier with allen bolts.

The eagle eyed amongst you will have noticed there appears to be an extra cylinder.
I found a 60cc kit on ebay, for £35, thought Iíd have a punt, comes with new piston, rings, gudgeon pin, circlips and complete top end gasket set. Iíve checked the clearance between the crank and cylinder liner and it will fit, in fact thereís more clearance than original cylinder.
The 60cc kit is for another day though.

In addition to the de-coke, Iíve fitted the carb repair kit, it has the right jet sizes, but Iím not 100% sure it has the right needle size, the original was a 49A the kit has a Y66, no idea really, it might be the same needle with a different manufacturers number on it.
Iíve refitted the old needle for now. With the repair kit installed I no longer have a leak at the float bowl gasket.

I fitted the, decoked, parts along with some new piston circlips and new gaskets.
One thing I did notice when putting the top end back on was the old head gasket, Iím not certain it was the correct one, it was a very thin metal gasket, with no embossed ring. The new head gasket was much sturdier and had the embossed ring.
There was a big difference when kicking it over without the exhaust, a very satisfying Ďpopí sound as opposed to the mildly disappointing Ďphutí sound it made before.
It took a while to get the 2T oil pumping through to the reed block, I tried to get it through by using the kickstart but that didnít seem to work. I finally got it pumping through by pushing the bike along whilst it was in 2nd gear.
Once that was sorted, with the carb and exhaust back on, it started first time, well first time after I remembered to turn the petrol on! Embarassed
Iíve not had a chance to run it properly, however itís smoking a lot less, and the plug looks reasonable might be a bit rich, but hopefully I can tune that out when I get the chance.

Seat repairs.
The original seat cover was ripped and had a patched repair, there was a chunk of foam missing plus a couple of loose bits that needed gluing down.

https://i.imgur.com/1r7jD2W.jpg

I used contact adhesive to glue in a chunk of foam, once this had stuck down I carved the foam to the right shape with a bread knife. The loose bits of foam were just glued up with more contact adhesive.
The seat base wasnít too bad, there was rust on the inside surface, some superficial rust on the underside and a small stress crack were the seat is hinged to the frame.
I got rid of as much loose rust as I could with a wire wheel, once that was done I coated the lot with some Kurust, which did what it was supposed to do.
A couple of coats of black, gloss Hammerite, finished it off.

https://i.imgur.com/eNuLP3Y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cgH1Yig.jpg

Iíd ordered a replacement seat cover some time ago, the only place I could find one was the US.
It arrived in the UK quite quickly, but when I opened it I wasnít sure it was big enough, but with the bike being in Cyprus there was not a lot I could do.
When I got the seat and seat cover together, in one place, as I thought, the new cover was too small. My involvement in the seat restoration, from this point, was minimal, Mrs Suntan took over.

First of all we needed to make a pattern from the old seat cover, which was made up of 3 pieces. The pieces were bonded together, not stitched, so they had to be cut apart, very carefully.
Using these three pieces as a pattern Mrs Suntan then made a mockup cover out of some calico.

https://i.imgur.com/xmkBwqI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gQXcQ3f.jpg

Doing it like this means the mockup can be altered, relatively, easily until it fits perfectly. There is a specific reason this seat cover needs to be very accurate, the seat base is metal. When Iíve done this before the seat bases have been plastic meaning the cover can be stretched and stapled into place.
The metal seat base has integral metal tabs, these are bent over and grip the edge of the seat cover to hold it in place, because of this itís very important to get the cover the right size, otherwise it will never be stretched tight enough.
Once the calico mockup was completed, this was taken apart and used as the final pattern to cut out the new seat vinyl.
The seat cover I bought has not been wasted, it had a patterned top which has been sewn onto the cover Mrs Suntan has made.

Final fitting of the cover was difficult, the whole thing had to be clipped into place with bulldog clips, then trimmed to, hopefully, the right size, a shaped plastic beading, (recovered from the old seat cover), was then sewn in. It was then a case of hoping we had the size correct, stretching it over the seat and bending the tabs over the edge of the cover to hold it in place.

A big thank you and three cheers for Mrs Suntan and her, marvellous, sewing skills! Thumbs Up

Here is the finished article:-

https://i.imgur.com/Ap4Yml7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fAbhS0d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dxPybUF.jpg

The seat still needs a new strap, but that's an easier job, once stitched together, it bolts to the underside of the seat.

Now the seats done I can ride it and hopefully sort out some carb settings, the bike is on the small side and standing on the pegs when riding it wasn't an option. Plug chop time soon!

The new fork seals, are in, it wasnít a difficult job, the old seals were a bit difficult to remove, but came out eventually, new ones went in easily.
I had some difficulty with oil quantities, now sorted, but I suspect the spring needs replacing as they bottom out very easily. A new spring is under Ä20 so iíll renew that at a later date.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 10 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is some wizardry there. Serious seat skills Shocked
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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 10 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an awesome project - and amazing skills there!

Top work Mr & Mrs Suntan Cool Cool Cool Cool
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 19 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here's two short videos of the bike on it's maiden voyage after its rebuild:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAr0XC_NMaw&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpV0PfxoRnw&feature=youtu.be

It runs well, revs out in all gears and has good throttle response.
However I'm having trouble containing the idle speed.
At the moment, the air screw is half a turn out, (Yamaha service manual says one and a half turns out), the Pilot screw, is at its lowest setting, (in other words the throttle slide is as low as it can go).
I would say it's idling around 2500rpm and I can't get it any lower.
It is running rich, the plug is dry but sooty, if I operate the choke when it's idling it kills it stone dead, no gradual splutter, just instant stall.
The exhaust is not smoking but there is a fuel smell to it!
The exhaust has the correct packing around the baffle.

If I try backing out the air screw nearer to the factory setting the revs rise instantly.

All the carb internals and jets are brand new and everything was blasted through with compressed air before reassembly.

I'm guessing all this means that it needs to be re-jetted, if there are any 2T carb gurus here who can suggest which way to go with the jets, I'd be grateful.

Yesterday, when the videos were shot the temperature was in the high 30's and we're at about 2000ft above sea level, if that makes any difference.

The only things I haven't checked are the ignition timing and the points themselves, although it starts first kick, every time.
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