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tony1951
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 11 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
+1 to bike speedos being for novelty purposes only.

tony1951 wrote:
I wouldn't be trying to hit 80 on a 300 mile 125. It won't be anywhere near run in.

Counter-suggestion: he ran it in gently according to the manual, and now it'll never perform as well as it could.

We haven't had a pointless slap fight over http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm for a while.


Many thanks for that interesting link.

I just wonder why Mr A. N Other knows so much more than the Honda Techies, The Kawasaki Techies and all the other manufacturers development departments. In fact when I read his break in process on the dynomometer, he tells us to go at it at half and three quarter throttle, but unless I am being particularly dim, he doesn't tell us how long to do this, which as an amateur bodger myself, I'd have thought was a pretty important parameter in the business of running in an engine. The Internet is full of these conspiracy theory nuts who 'know better' than the 'big people'. There is something about the Mid West mentality which thrives on this stuff like 'The Secret Your Dermatologist, Doesn't Want You to Know.'

He even tells you to dump the synthetic oil the manufacturer specs to be put in by the PDI.

I read it and thought about it Roger but I'm feeling its probably a croc of you know what.

I'd be interested in your opinion on it because I think you are a mechanic and probably know a lot more than I do. Bottom line from here: Bike manufacturers and all engine makers employ a lot of very clever, highly qualified engineers. How likely is it that small time meddler knows better than they do?

Cheers.
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Previous Bikes: Raleigh Runabout, James Cadet, BSA c15 (2 of), BSA A10 Gold Flash Combination, BSA M21 500 Sidevalve 1939, CG125, BMW R65.
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Shaft
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 11 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

tony1951 wrote:

Many thanks for that interesting link.

I just wonder why Mr A. N Other knows so much more than the Honda Techies, The Kawasaki Techies and all the other manufacturers development departments. In fact when I read his break in process on the dynomometer, he tells us to go at it at half and three quarter throttle, but unless I am being particularly dim, he doesn't tell us how long to do this, which as an amateur bodger myself, I'd have thought was a pretty important parameter in the business of running in an engine. The Internet is full of these conspiracy theory nuts who 'know better' than the 'big people'. There is something about the Mid West mentality which thrives on this stuff like 'The Secret Your Dermatologist, Doesn't Want You to Know.'

He even tells you to dump the synthetic oil the manufacturer specs to be put in by the PDI.

I read it and thought about it Roger but I'm feeling its probably a croc of you know what.

I'd be interested in your opinion on it because I think you are a mechanic and probably know a lot more than I do. Bottom line from here: Bike manufacturers and all engine makers employ a lot of very clever, highly qualified engineers. How likely is it that small time meddler knows better than they do?

Cheers.


A lot of professional hi-po engine builders will tell you not to run in on fully synthetic oil, it doesn't allow proper bedding in of new surfaces.

BMW were replacing certain V8 motors under warranty, due to them starting to burn oil significantly and prematurely, because they were filled with high spec full synth from the get go.

I had a free engine rebuild on one my TVR's, well out of warranty, but far too early - their engine company admitted the (common) problems were caused by running in on full synth.

Don't disbelieve everything you read.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 12 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

tony1951 wrote:
I think you are a mechanic

No, Tef thinks he's a mechanic.

What I think is that engine manufacturers are being better-safe-than-warranty-claim in their running in advice. Also, a big high end performance engine is likely to be dynoed hard at the factory which will do much the same job, but a commuter 125 is likely to get a prod of the starter and not even warmed up.

If I find myself going profligate and buying a new bike again, particularly a small capacity bike where ever fraction of a pony matters, I'll be doing Mototune on it. If it's going to go pop, I want it to do it in the first 20 miles.
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tony1951
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 12 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
tony1951 wrote:

He even tells you to dump the synthetic oil the manufacturer specs to be put in by the PDI.[/b]



A lot of professional hi-po engine builders will tell you not to run in on fully synthetic oil, it doesn't allow proper bedding in of new surfaces.



That makes sense.
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Previous Bikes: Raleigh Runabout, James Cadet, BSA c15 (2 of), BSA A10 Gold Flash Combination, BSA M21 500 Sidevalve 1939, CG125, BMW R65.
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tony1951
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 12 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

What I think is that engine manufacturers are being better-safe-than-warranty-claim in their running in advice. Also, a big high end performance engine is likely to be dynoed hard at the factory which will do much the same job, but a commuter 125 is likely to get a prod of the starter and not even warmed up.

If I find myself going profligate and buying a new bike again, particularly a small capacity bike where ever fraction of a pony matters, I'll be doing Mototune on it. If it's going to go pop, I want it to do it in the first 20 miles.


Thanks. I was looking at buying a nearly new 250 single recently and I shied away from it when the seller told me that although it had only done 293 miles, he had been trying to get it to 80 and had seen 75 on the clock. It was one of those Heralds made by Quinqui in China and tarted up and he offered it to me for a silly cheap price. I didn't fancy trying to source engine parts if he had done it a mischief.

I'm now thinking about Kawasaki W650s.... It's all nostalgia with me. I had an A10 back in the day and these Kwaks are based stylewise on the old Beezer twins. In fact the W1 was a more or less direct copy of the A7 500 and that is the granddaddy of the line.
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Previous Bikes: Raleigh Runabout, James Cadet, BSA c15 (2 of), BSA A10 Gold Flash Combination, BSA M21 500 Sidevalve 1939, CG125, BMW R65.
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Tom Dunlop
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 12 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi i have a 1983 Yamaha Vmax only had a couple of months it has started cutting out for no apparent reason .. only thing I can think of is I filled up with Shell V power unleaded as aposed to normal unleaded would this cause the problem..? Really don't trust taking it out in case it cuts out again could end up messy.!
Any advice much appreciated .
Thanks Tom.
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Old Git Racing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 12 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Dunlop wrote:
Hi i have a 1983 Yamaha Vmax only had a couple of months it has started cutting out for no apparent reason .. only thing I can think of is I filled up with Shell V power unleaded as aposed to normal unleaded would this cause the problem..? Really don't trust taking it out in case it cuts out again could end up messy.!
Any advice much appreciated .
Thanks Tom.


Not a chance thats causing it to cut out.

OGR.
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stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: 00:12 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember when a few ZX12R's had engine issue's and the big K decided to double the running in period to 2000miles. All the summer pub night heroes moaned like fuck about not being able to ride their bike properly in the first year.
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ART-ADS
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
ISTR that the running in advice on my brand new 125, nearly 30 years ago was, to keep it under 40mph for the first 100 miles, then up the revs 1000rpm for every extra 100miles, or something like that.
Basically I don't think it got to 60 until it's first service!!!

80mph? On a 4T-125? Err... yers... 'indicated'... perhaps.

Thunk for you... the 1977 CB125Twin, at 17bhp.. two and a half braying donkeys more than max permitted for A1-Licence regs, was probably THE most powerful four-stroke 'production' 125 ever made.. it could just about nudge 80, through two-way times traps; the 'aerodynamics' offered by the fancy party frock on a GSXR-125, might help a tad... but are probably off-set some by the drag of the fat tyres!

Either way, 80mph is pretty optimistic for a four-stroke-single-125....ESPECIALLY one that hasn't merely NOT been run in yet, but hasn't even clocked half the run in mileage!

And you are ragging the crap out of it, trying to find out whether the mag-propaganda holds up? Shocked

Before its first first frigging oil-change Shocked Shocked

And you are wondering if Super-Unleaded would make a difference to regular? Shocked Shocked Shocked

The mind just boggles.

And that's before it strays to ponder, this is at least the chaps 2nd 125.. and about the most expensive one on the market... WHY!?!

If 'fast', or even 'cool' is the imperative here; why no tests, licence and a bigger bike?!? I mean, if under 19 and stuck on A1 'cos of modern licence regs... how long until A2 could be done, and something like an SV650 could be bought, PROBABLY for, oooh.... less than the new-bike depreciation rolling GSXR-125 out the blinkin show-room! And NO bike looks 'cool' with an L-Plate to belie the fact its just NOT a 600 or anything but what it is; a little commuter bike in a party frock! If over 19 and A2 and a big bike a possibility? WHY even go there at all!!!

But hey... not my money... actually probably not OP's either.... likely banks, finance companies or Daddies... so who cares.... well... until the bill to replace the fancy fairings or rebuild the motor comes in... carry on.. its a learner-bike... one way of t'other, you gonna learn... maybe.. we can hope!!


mate iv seen you on this forum tons of times and can you give it a bloody rest. for Christ sakes a 125 is cool to spotty 17 year olds especially in sports bike dress. hell most birds the lad talks too wouldn't know the difference between a r1 and an r125 so give it a rest. 2 years is a long time not to have a bike, so getting something as fast as possible and as cool as possible isn't an unreasonable request?? like why do you feel the need to take the piss not all of us are old farts quit crappin all over new riders. 5-10mph is a lot of difference when its between 60-80 mph range trying to hit motorway speeds, and doing the bike test at 17 and removing the L plates takes that dumb argument away. so give it a rest and offer some constructive advice like the vast majority of this forum instead of snide comments
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arry
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ART-ADS wrote:
like why do you feel the need to take the piss


Because Mike has seen it all and done it all; honestly, ask him what he doesn't know about moderne supersportse 600'se and how dangerouse they are.

Besides, wouldn't you be grumpy if by the time you'd finished typing a single post your finger nails needed a trim?
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