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andym
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: The DVLA must be desperate for money Reply with quote

I've just received a penalty for untaxed vehicle.

Quote:

Dear Mr M

We have received evidence that at 12:06 hours on 13/07/2018 this vehicle was being used or kept whist a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) declaration was in force in Garnock Street Glasgow G21. It is an offence (1) to use or keep a SORN'd vehicle on a public road and our records show that you were the vehicle's keeper on that date.

Even if you have taxed the vehicle since this date the offence still stands. You must now pay an out of court settlement (2) of £95.00 in full by 03/08/2018 to stop us taking you to court. This is separate to fees paid to the agency's wheel clamping contractors if your vehicle was wheel clamped or impounded (3)


There hasn't been any notification put on the car (or someone has pinched it), it hasn't been clamped yet.... and it isn't even on the road that they have mentioned as seen by the red square in the attached picture.

So what do I do? Ignore it and wait for them to take me to court?

I was planning on taking it to the scrap yard in the next day or 2, but now I've called the scrap yard to come and collect it today.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you SORN it?
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andym
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Did you SORN it?


Yes
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toby1
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cloned plates?
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be because it is parked in a space that is directly accessible from the road and so they are claiming you may have been using it.

I've heard of someone backing their car out of the garage onto the drive (to work on it) and being done for the car not being taxed as he might have driven it onto the road.

common sense does not prevail here.
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andym
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Might be because it is parked in a space that is directly accessible from the road and so they are claiming you may have been using it....


The springs on one side are broken, the discs have all rusted, I removed the EGR blanking plate and the first time I started it I split a hose.

The vehicle is not going to be moving any time soon... unless it's on the back of a wagon that is.

The only thing I've done recently is remove the bonnet to fit on my other car, so maybe it's the bonnet that they are demanding a bribe for Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be clear, are you saying that it's parked here?

If your defence is going to be "Nah, it wasn't on Garnock Street it was on...", then I'd suggest that you identify whatever street that is and see if it's on the list of adopted roads:

https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=30725

If it is, then I wouldn't be confident that being in a (non allocated, non owned?) parking space will be particularly relevant, as the offence is on a road, not a carriageway.

Maybe though, depending on who owns that specific piece of land, and if you can argue that it's not part of the road.

This is one for PePiPoo. They take pedantry to a level that even I'd balk at, but it is a technical offence, so it'll be the details that matter.

Best of luck.
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andym
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 20 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Be clear, are you saying that it's parked here?
No it was parked in the red space on the new image Razz

If your defence is going to be "Nah, it wasn't on Garnock Street it was on...", then I'd suggest that you identify whatever street that is and see if it's on the list of adopted roads:

https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=30725

If it is, then I wouldn't be confident that being in a (non allocated, non owned?) parking space will be particularly relevant, as the offence is on a road, not a carriageway.

Maybe though, depending on who owns that specific piece of land, and if you can argue that it's not part of the road.

This is one for PePiPoo. They take pedantry to a level that even I'd balk at, but it is a technical offence, so it'll be the details that matter.

Best of luck.


After a phone call to GCC the person I spoke to didn't know what that area comes under, the concierge didn't know either... the housing office was closed so I have to wait until Monday to speak to them.

Quote:
Garnock Street: FROM THE NORTH KERBLINE OF ROYSTON ROAD NORTHWARDS TO THE SOUTH KERBLINE OF CHARLES
STREET A DISTANCE OF 460 FEET.


Also my bike is parked in my lockup, which there is a sign saying that it's Charles Street Lockups, I went to see the concierge and he confirmed that there used to be lockups where the car was parked.... but obviously that whole area is no mans land as there isn't any information (that I can find), on what road it is Confused
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

and yet there has been a car dumped outside in our road for at least six months with no tax or mot on it and one up the road for two years and they have said nothing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:09 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
and yet there has been a car dumped outside in our road for at least six months with no tax or mot on it and one up the road for two years and they have said nothing

You've let them know, right?
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
I suspect someone has got fed up with an abandoned shitter being left there for a few months, so reported it as being on the road whilst SORN.

If it;s parked on a public road, you're bang to rights, if not, it's worth arguing.


Aye, I had a neighbour dob me in for my van. Rear suspension had gone and I had bumped it up the kerb opposite my house. I was struggling with finances to get it fixed but got a notice to move it, so had to sell for scrap.

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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A neighbour (used loosely as he was in the next street) used to use our street as a dumping ground for his rarely used shittip of a van.

Parked legally and had tax and mot so nothing we could do. Refused all nice requests by our streets residents to please use his own 4 car drive to store it. (Our street was all terraces with no drives - so parking was scarce)

Eventually his tax and mot ran out. Reported and square root of fuck all happened.

We have been moved from there for over 2 years now. Rode past recently, it's still parked there 🤦‍♂️
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andym
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
I suspect someone has got fed up with an abandoned shitter being left there for a few months, so reported it as being on the road whilst SORN.

If it;s parked on a public road, you're bang to rights, if not, it's worth arguing.


Interesting point... When I moved in to this flat though, there was some kind of people carrier type thing that had sat in one of the spaces, about 9 months ago the kids started breaking windows and pulling out the seats etc.... that was only removed about 5 months ago.

Most of the cars (and vans) down there have sat without moving for a few years, lots of them have flat tyres, or look like they have been broken in to.

But I park Mondeo number 2 next to number 1 and swap the bonnets over.... and suddenly I'm using number 1 while it's SORN'd Thinking

I'm wondering if they just couldn't be bothered to read the registrations and seen me driving number 2 out of the area?


Anyway, number 1 has now been scrapped (a nice gentleman with a strong Irish accent bought it for £50... and even offered to send the V5 away for me Rolling Eyes .... the V5 left scorch marks on the envelope before the ink had even dried and sent off via recorded delivery before he'd even managed to hook the car up).


The thing that gets me, I don't mind paying the £95 (on top of my £250 per year road tax), if they would fix the bloody roads around here... or anywhere in Glasgow tbh
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 08:04 - 22 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
andyscooter wrote:
and yet there has been a car dumped outside in our road for at least six months with no tax or mot on it and one up the road for two years and they have said nothing

You've let them know, right?


yes on more then one occasion
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 23 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:

You've let them know, right?


yes on more then one occasion


Have a similar situation. 2 cars left there for almost 3 years that I know of, taking up valuable parking spaces. I've reported both on 2 occasions, they're still there

1 of them is SORN'd, but has no insurance
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 23 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

can you fire in with a Freedom on information and get whatever details they hold of you and/or your vehicles of registrations, X, Y and Z including any photos?

Is it just someone has made a phone call and they've sent out an auto letter or is it something else?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 23 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
can you fire in with a Freedom on information and get whatever details they hold of you and/or your vehicles of registrations, X, Y and Z including any photos?

That'll come up in the court case. Or if it doesn't, then they have no case.

The prickly problem is whether to pay the bribe now, or to call their bluff.

Might be worth asking them now what their evidence is going to be though. Their refusal to answer will harm their case rather than yours.
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andym
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 23 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got the chance to speak to the housing association today... unfortunately it IS a public road Evil or Very Mad

But it's also part of Charles Street Confused

In the 2 1/2 years that I've owned that mondeo, there has only been 1-2 times I couldn't get in to my normal space.... and both of them were well over a year ago. So I'd love to see this evidence, which I wasn't sure if contacting them was admitting guilt or something?




Thinking back to the day in question, unless it's been the DVLA van*, then there's only 4 possible people that walked past that could have been pissed off enough to report me...

1. Housing association staff, who usually acknowledge me when passing and even had a chat a few times.... although this person has had the opportunity to report me numerous times for things like: Working on project death trap, riding project death trap around the lockup area, working on the VFR with no tax, MOT or insurance... working on a couple of cars, vans and bikes..... Odds 1/10

2. A young mother and her half dozen kids, one of the kids commented "ma, whi's tha' man dain?", the mum commented "'ez fixin' ez car".... Odds 2/10

3. Another young woman who walked past 3-4 times gawping at me lifting/positioning and bolting a bloody heavy bonnet on to a car.... Odds 7/10

4. Yet another young woman with another half dozen kids who asked if I knew anything about cars Rolling Eyes then asked me if I could have a look at her handbrake as the car was due for an MOT a couple of days later... after getting the trolley jack and checking under the car to see if there was an adjuster under there... then checking the back of the handbrake lever itself (Hyundai i10), it turned out the cable had been adjusted as tight as it would go.... I explained that it would either need a new cable or shoes, but if she took it for a pre-MOT they would tell her if it was an advisory or a fail and let them fix it (I had about 5 minutes to work on it before she had to go to a hospital appointment).... Odds 8/10


Or the other option is that I'm just so unlucky that 10 days (or 13 as the letter was folded right on the number) into my SORN I was caught fair and square using a car with a blown engine and 2 snapped springs on the road in question




* if it was the DVLA van, they would not have hesitated to clamp mine and at least half a dozen other cars using those spaces
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 23 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're not going to prosecute you on someone else's say so, as they couldn't produce their witness in court. I expect it's just some subcontracted goon (hired goon) who's snapped a picture of your car.

I really do suggest that you ask on PePiPoo if you want What Do advice.
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Chuffin Nora
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part 1

andym wrote:
Quote:
You must now pay an out of court settlement (2) of £95.00 in full by 03/08/2018 to stop us taking you to court.


Intermission

Ummm . . . Thinking
Is it actually possible to have an out of court settlement that doesn't require the participation of both parties?
Surely the word 'settlement' implies mutuality That, in this particular scenario, the plaintiff and defendant have come to an agreement through negotiation. And yet, 'twould appear that andym has been automatically negotiated out of the loop!
Now, surely the DVLA is savvy enough to be aware of this, so either
a: they're pulling a fast one, banking on the probability that every one to whom it may concern is a complete schmuck who's bound to overlook the implication thereat, or
b: andym's being scammed!; by some equally numbskullish schmuck whose command of English and the niceties of legal jargon doesn't extend to the fact that it takes two to tango. Folded arms

Taking it, though, that the letter is genuinely from a government agency, the term 'taking [someone] to court' has no basis in law; 'tis merely a figure of speech. Thus it can be legitimately -- if not to say conveniently -- inferred that the DVLA is offering to actually accompany the defendant to court; possibly by just walking alongside or, as I'm confidently assuming, by way of a chauffeur-driven car -- or a minibus!, to round up the day's victims in one fell swoop, thus saving the great British Daily Mail-reading tax payer from choking up their toast and marmalade and making a complete dog's breakfast of such terrific, plain-speaking journalism.
So who but a complete cockwomble would cough-up 95 sovs to stop being taken to court, given The Man's generosity in offering them a lift?


Part 2
(is currently being detained in a safe at my solicitor's pleasure
on the grounds that his client is completely bonkers)
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it actually possible to have an out of court settlement that doesn't require the participation of both parties?


If he pays it he will have participated and settled.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:
I finally got the chance to speak to the housing association today... unfortunately it IS a public road Evil or Very Mad

But it's also part of Charles Street Confused


Reading through this thread, you need to look again at Rogerborg's psot of 15:06 - 20 Jul 2018 and sort out what's what. You need to know whether the place your car was parked is a public road (EDIT: "a road that the local roads authority manage and maintain"). That's all there is to it.

I'd be inclined to nip down to the council's Land and Environmental Services, Exchange House, 231 George Street, G1 1RX with an actual printout of the area and ask them. Phone them before you go to find out who you need to see.

Where your car was parked does not seem to be a footway, verge or service strip adjacent to the road, does not seem to be referenced in the Council's list of statutory roads, and is quite possibly not adopted or "a road that the local roads authority manage and maintain".

It's always nice to be on the side of right. Perhaps you are.
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andym
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
andym wrote:
I finally got the chance to speak to the housing association today... unfortunately it IS a public road Evil or Very Mad

But it's also part of Charles Street Confused


Reading through this thread, you need to look again at Rogerborg's psot of 15:06 - 20 Jul 2018 and sort out what's what. You need to know whether the place your car was parked is a public road (EDIT: "a road that the local roads authority manage and maintain"). That's all there is to it.

I'd be inclined to nip down to the council's Land and Environmental Services, Exchange House, 231 George Street, G1 1RX with an actual printout of the area and ask them. Phone them before you go to find out who you need to see.

Where your car was parked does not seem to be a footway, verge or service strip adjacent to the road, does not seem to be referenced in the Council's list of statutory roads, and is quite possibly not adopted or "a road that the local roads authority manage and maintain".

It's always nice to be on the side of right. Perhaps you are.



I finally managed to speak to the council the other day, and while reporting the dangerous condition that both Garnock Street and Charles Street are in I managed to slip in about the maintenance of the road leading off Garnock Street (then remembered there's a road that leads to playing fields, so had to point out that it was the turning to the left), after a bit of checking she couldn't find anything about that section on her system.... turns out it's the housing association that deals with those sections of road.

The letter has now been returned to the DVLA with the excuse "The above mentioned vehicle has never been parked on Garnock Street", so I'm just waiting for the court date to arrive now.
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