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adengtg
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DRZ4Hunned
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 Posted: 14:30 - 19 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter whether it's lost 99% power over the years, It's the manufacturer's quoted power that matters.
Don't bother restricting... you won't get caught 
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Ste
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| Posted: 14:33 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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adengtg
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| Posted: 14:37 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Doing the theory as soon as i can (1-2 months) and doing Mod 1/Mod 2 as soon after my 19th birthday as i can, mid November. |
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Ste
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| Posted: 14:50 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Meh, in that case don't worry about finding yourself an A2 bike until you've got your license. 
I look forward to your next thread when a different bike catches your attention.  |
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adengtg
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arry
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DRZ4Hunned
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 15:46 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Hang on, the EX500 is the GPZ500. That claimed nearer to 59hp than 49. Do you mean an ER5?
| DRZ4Hunned wrote: | It doesn't matter whether it's lost 99% power over the years, It's the manufacturer's quoted power that matters. |
If the assumption is guilty until proven innocent.
Insurers might very well apply that, but given most of them still only distinguish between provisional and "full" licences...
| DRZ4Hunned wrote: | Don't bother restricting... you won't get caught |
So say we all.
However: buying a 19 year old budget commuter from a dealer? 
Only if you absolutely cannot find anything newer for less.
Link to advert is where?
This un?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183251006094
Red one, too fast for A2. 
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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adengtg
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| Posted: 16:22 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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True, to be honest, i just wanted something to work on for a bit before i do my test but i might aswell leave it and go get something better. maybe find something that has a fun journey to bring it back on.
Thanks very much for the help! |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 16:44 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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As said, its not what power it may or may not have, its what the manufacturer claimed it should have in the brochure. If that says its over... its over... and you are guilty until proven innocent.
On an A2 licence with power restrictions, YOU are responsible for assuring that whatever you ride is within licence limits.... how you do that is up to you..... you get pulled, it's up to plod to prove your guilt.... BUT, unless you can tell and preferably show them you have done 'something', it will default to manufacturers declared spec, and if over... your nicked sonny.
"Well, its Old enough to vote, its BOUND to have lost a few ponies since it was made, and it IS really really old...." wont wash.... that is actually an admission you have NOT done anything to ensure the bikes in compliance with licence regs.... not that you positively have...
A restriction certificate, by the way has no legal standing in UK law. There's nothing in the legislation to say what you should do to make a bike complaint to power limits, or say you should have any paperwork to prove it.... an FI International restriction cert, has about as much legal weight as a patented Paddy Cert scrawled in crayola wax crayon!
A Dyno Chart, with that bikes actual registration number in the vehicle details, is a pretty good bit of legal evidence..... but all it may prove is that the bike, was, 'probably' once upon a time put on a Dyno! And there's a heck of a lot of possible variation in a Dyno run, and the power measured at the back wheel, isn't what it might make at the crank, where the manufacturers claims and legal-beagles will compare to.. and, like an MOT probably only good on the day its printed... bike could have been fitted with a different engine or a supercharger or nitreos or anything the day after!
BUT, having a Dyno-chart is 'something' even if you haven't physically made a change to the bike, it shows any interested party you have checked what power your bike makes, and taken steps to ensure it IS within licence limits.. and tips balance of probability in your favour.... Still plods job to prove your guilt, IF they wish to take it any further.
On an EX5 that's that old... odds of being stopped and taken to task? Well depends how much of a dick you are on it, and how bored a coppa may be.... odds of being challenged probably aren't all that high.. ride like a BMF poster boy, you could get away with it for years.... BUT its a risk.
Get pulled, and don't have any satisfactory answer to the 'Is this Restricted then?" question.... you don't NEED one remember... plods job to prove guilt, and they are likely to get that much more interested... and more that you say.... more likely you are to drop yourself in it....
Plod: "So this ere 'thing'... your on a restricted licence, encha? It restricted then?"
You: "I believe so orificer"... and you DON'T try and answer any questions he HASN'T asked yet.... "Would you like the keys to get it Dyno'd? I'll leave it with you and call for a taxi"
At that point they have the option to pursue the matter or not.. and implicit threat that you will just walk away and leave them at the side of the road, to wait until their recovery team can come get the bike, and then one of them follow them to their approved dyno facility, and wast a day doing so, and filling forms, whilst they get moaned at by thier supervisor because theres a real crime they want them to go deal with... POSSIBLY will disincline them to take you up on the offer, and let it drop.....
Or more likely change tack, and go back to trying to get you to drop yourself in the proverbial asking impertinent questions, like "So you haven't got a certificate then?" and leaving you to stammer excuses....
You: "Sorry officer, I BELIEVE the bike to be in compliance with my licence limitations.... I have checked with numerous sources and they all lead me to that conclusion" (done something!)
AND you 'politely' deflect any more digging on the topic, like plod asking "So what were these sources" or "So you haven't fitted a kit then?" you JUST return to the opener, and "Well, if YOU would like to get the bike Dyno'd to find out whether it is or isn't above licence limits, I will leave it and keys with you, and go call a taxi"
As said, you choose to ride a bike, that as originally sold, and in manufacturers declared brochure specs is NOT A2 compliant, on an A2 licence.... you do so at YOUR risk....
Power restriction, and proof there-of is but one of many, that as far as I am concerned are far bigger; LIKE will that SMIDSY pull out or not, and on old bike, is that the cam-chain about to make a bid for freedom...
Dealing with road-side pull, is one risk, and SO much down to the attitude test.... that will have started ling before the blues and two's come on.... so what cause have you given them for that before you start? So no small number-plate or loud pipe; mini-indicators or riding like a twit...
B-U-T before any of that, the first hurdle is likely your insurance company..... now "The Law" that applies isn't primarily the Road-Traffic-Act, its contract law, and what they ask of you, before you start.
They could make it a requirement of insurance that you agree to always ride in a pink tu-tu and neon green Hi-Vis advertising their company... NOT a requirement of the RTA... but contractual requirement of insurance.
So.. what do your insurers want from you?
IF they demand a receipt from a recognised mechanic stating that an FI international or other 'recognized' restriction kit is fitted... that wot you gotta show'em! They ask for a Dyno-Print, that wot you gotta show'em. They want a photo of you naked holding a crisp packet over your privates..... that wot you gotta show'em!
They PROBABLY will merely ask you if the bike is restricted.... you say 'yes'... and we are back-to-top... except now you have signed your name to that statement.... and you MAY be required to back that up, with proof how you assured yourself that the bike, was genuinely and properly restricted to licence limits...
Like I said, guilty until proven innocent....
NOW, its a matter of who wishes to chase this; and why. Plod, as long as you have an insurance cert, are probably not so interested; insurance co may be; especially if you have caused them a big pay-out and they are looking for anything to claw-back from you; and 'ooh, well, its rather old, BOUND to have lost a few horses since new.." ISN'T a defence... its an admission you have NOT done anything to ensure licence compliance....
So do 'something'...
Personally.... I would err towards a throttle stop restrictor on a machine that old and that close to A2 limits. Easily enough done with a grub-screw in the twist-grip to shorten the full travel of the twist-grip and prevent full opening...
3.2mm drill, M4 tap and grub; down the Dyno, get a run done, if peak comes out over licence limit, wind in the grub 1/2 a turn, repeat until desired number in place, add super-glue round grub screw to stop it shifting... ask for second print out... put one in the folder with the MOT receipt, one under the seat. Job-Jobbed.. and 'something' to show insurance co, and or plod at the side of the road, that may 'still' not prove bike be restricted to licence limits... BUT proves I have done 'something' to ensure it should be....
EVEN if first run shows peak beneath limit, and I super-glued the grub screw in-place effectively not doing anything.... Its something I could point at when plod starts asking dumb questions, that he can see to be there.... unlike a set of FI International restriction washers, that would be hidden in the rubber inlet stubbs... and is a little more obvious and definitely done to that bike, than a bit of paper in Paddy-Crayon or with a nice FI International border round it!
May never be needed.... but how little with Ins-Co demand, A-N-D how much risk are you prepared to accept?
Remember, RTA makes it YOUR responsibility to ensure you are within your licence limitations; how you do that is pretty much entirely up to you.... but you need to do 'something' if the brochure specs say it's not.
Your call what that 'something' may be.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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adengtg
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Posted: 16:52 - 19 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | As said, its not what power it may or may not have, its what the manufacturer claimed it should have in the brochure. If that says its over... its over... and you are guilty until proven innocent.
On an A2 licence with power restrictions, YOU are responsible for assuring that whatever you ride is within licence limits.... how you do that is up to you..... you get pulled, it's up to plod to prove your guilt.... BUT, unless you can tell and preferably show them you have done 'something', it will default to manufacturers declared spec, and if over... your nicked sonny.
"Well, its Old enough to vote, its BOUND to have lost a few ponies since it was made, and it IS really really old...." wont wash.... that is actually an admission you have NOT done anything to ensure the bikes in compliance with licence regs.... not that you positively have...
A restriction certificate, by the way has no legal standing in UK law. There's nothing in the legislation to say what you should do to make a bike complaint to power limits, or say you should have any paperwork to prove it.... an FI International restriction cert, has about as much legal weight as a patented Paddy Cert scrawled in crayola wax crayon!
A Dyno Chart, with that bikes actual registration number in the vehicle details, is a pretty good bit of legal evidence..... but all it may prove is that the bike, was, 'probably' once upon a time put on a Dyno! And there's a heck of a lot of possible variation in a Dyno run, and the power measured at the back wheel, isn't what it might make at the crank, where the manufacturers claims and legal-beagles will compare to.. and, like an MOT probably only good on the day its printed... bike could have been fitted with a different engine or a supercharger or nitreos or anything the day after!
BUT, having a Dyno-chart is 'something' even if you haven't physically made a change to the bike, it shows any interested party you have checked what power your bike makes, and taken steps to ensure it IS within licence limits.. and tips balance of probability in your favour.... Still plods job to prove your guilt, IF they wish to take it any further.
On an EX5 that's that old... odds of being stopped and taken to task? Well depends how much of a dick you are on it, and how bored a coppa may be.... odds of being challenged probably aren't all that high.. ride like a BMF poster boy, you could get away with it for years.... BUT its a risk.
Get pulled, and don't have any satisfactory answer to the 'Is this Restricted then?" question.... you don't NEED one remember... plods job to prove guilt, and they are likely to get that much more interested... and more that you say.... more likely you are to drop yourself in it....
Plod: "So this ere 'thing'... your on a restricted licence, encha? It restricted then?"
You: "I believe so orificer"... and you DON'T try and answer any questions he HASN'T asked yet.... "Would you like the keys to get it Dyno'd? I'll leave it with you and call for a taxi"
At that point they have the option to pursue the matter or not.. and implicit threat that you will just walk away and leave them at the side of the road, to wait until their recovery team can come get the bike, and then one of them follow them to their approved dyno facility, and wast a day doing so, and filling forms, whilst they get moaned at by thier supervisor because theres a real crime they want them to go deal with... POSSIBLY will disincline them to take you up on the offer, and let it drop.....
Or more likely change tack, and go back to trying to get you to drop yourself in the proverbial asking impertinent questions, like "So you haven't got a certificate then?" and leaving you to stammer excuses....
You: "Sorry officer, I BELIEVE the bike to be in compliance with my licence limitations.... I have checked with numerous sources and they all lead me to that conclusion" (done something!)
AND you 'politely' deflect any more digging on the topic, like plod asking "So what were these sources" or "So you haven't fitted a kit then?" you JUST return to the opener, and "Well, if YOU would like to get the bike Dyno'd to find out whether it is or isn't above licence limits, I will leave it and keys with you, and go call a taxi"
As said, you choose to ride a bike, that as originally sold, and in manufacturers declared brochure specs is NOT A2 compliant, on an A2 licence.... you do so at YOUR risk....
Power restriction, and proof there-of is but one of many, that as far as I am concerned are far bigger; LIKE will that SMIDSY pull out or not, and on old bike, is that the cam-chain about to make a bid for freedom...
Dealing with road-side pull, is one risk, and SO much down to the attitude test.... that will have started ling before the blues and two's come on.... so what cause have you given them for that before you start? So no small number-plate or loud pipe; mini-indicators or riding like a twit...
B-U-T before any of that, the first hurdle is likely your insurance company..... now "The Law" that applies isn't primarily the Road-Traffic-Act, its contract law, and what they ask of you, before you start.
They could make it a requirement of insurance that you agree to always ride in a pink tu-tu and neon green Hi-Vis advertising their company... NOT a requirement of the RTA... but contractual requirement of insurance.
So.. what do your insurers want from you?
IF they demand a receipt from a recognised mechanic stating that an FI international or other 'recognized' restriction kit is fitted... that wot you gotta show'em! They ask for a Dyno-Print, that wot you gotta show'em. They want a photo of you naked holding a crisp packet over your privates..... that wot you gotta show'em!
They PROBABLY will merely ask you if the bike is restricted.... you say 'yes'... and we are back-to-top... except now you have signed your name to that statement.... and you MAY be required to back that up, with proof how you assured yourself that the bike, was genuinely and properly restricted to licence limits...
Like I said, guilty until proven innocent....
NOW, its a matter of who wishes to chase this; and why. Plod, as long as you have an insurance cert, are probably not so interested; insurance co may be; especially if you have caused them a big pay-out and they are looking for anything to claw-back from you; and 'ooh, well, its rather old, BOUND to have lost a few horses since new.." ISN'T a defence... its an admission you have NOT done anything to ensure licence compliance....
So do 'something'...
Personally.... I would err towards a throttle stop restrictor on a machine that old and that close to A2 limits. Easily enough done with a grub-screw in the twist-grip to shorten the full travel of the twist-grip and prevent full opening...
3.2mm drill, M4 tap and grub; down the Dyno, get a run done, if peak comes out over licence limit, wind in the grub 1/2 a turn, repeat until desired number in place, add super-glue round grub screw to stop it shifting... ask for second print out... put one in the folder with the MOT receipt, one under the seat. Job-Jobbed.. and 'something' to show insurance co, and or plod at the side of the road, that may 'still' not prove bike be restricted to licence limits... BUT proves I have done 'something' to ensure it should be....
EVEN if first run shows peak beneath limit, and I super-glued the grub screw in-place effectively not doing anything.... Its something I could point at when plod starts asking dumb questions, that he can see to be there.... unlike a set of FI International restriction washers, that would be hidden in the rubber inlet stubbs... and is a little more obvious and definitely done to that bike, than a bit of paper in Paddy-Crayon or with a nice FI International border round it!
May never be needed.... but how little with Ins-Co demand, A-N-D how much risk are you prepared to accept?
Remember, RTA makes it YOUR responsibility to ensure you are within your licence limitations; how you do that is pretty much entirely up to you.... but you need to do 'something' if the brochure specs say it's not.
Your call what that 'something' may be. |
k
Seriously though, that is fucking amazing. cannot thank you enough for all that. |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 17:50 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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'kin hell, don't encourage him. You're far more likely to get spazzed on it then to get tugged by the fuzz these days, so there's no need to sperg out and role-play out the whole scenario from purchase to penetration in the penitentiary.
| adengtg wrote: | seen it irl and it seems to be in pretty good condition. |
Belly pan is missing, not that it matters. Other than that, it looks as good as I'd expect for that age.
| adengtg wrote: | Wikipedia said it was 49hp, some sites say up to 60hp but i can't be sure. |
49.9 hp (37.2 kW) (rear wheel)
That's a sensible measure. Sadly, what matters is "net engine power", which is the number at the crank shaft if you put it on a bench and stripped the gearbox off. Dynos only ever guesstimate that.
Thing is, it's a 500 twin, and as above, I really don't think you'll manage to find anyone's who's bothered. If they are, then a piece of paper saying "35kW, legit" is going to end conversations pretty quickly. Don't throw time or money at a bike of that age and (private resale) value, you'll never see it back again.
They're decent enough bikes, economical but fun when shown the whip. However, the brakes aren't all that even with the later twin discs up front rather than that single, and the rear shocks have free play from new and go saggy quickly.
Check for rot at the bottom of end cans just above where they join the pipes, and give the front suspension a good old bouncing to see if it's weeping. Heck, pop the dust caps and look to see if it's been packed with grease or paper.
There's nothing inherently wrong with them, it's just that at that age and dealer prices, it doesn't take much extra in the budget to get something like a privately owned ER6 with half the years on it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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adengtg
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| Posted: 18:02 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | 'kin hell, don't encourage him. You're far more likely to get spazzed on it then to get tugged by the fuzz these days, so there's no need to sperg out and role-play out the whole scenario from purchase to penetration in the penitentiary.
| adengtg wrote: | seen it irl and it seems to be in pretty good condition. |
Belly pan is missing, not that it matters. Other than that, it looks as good as I'd expect for that age.
| adengtg wrote: | Wikipedia said it was 49hp, some sites say up to 60hp but i can't be sure. |
49.9 hp (37.2 kW) (rear wheel)
That's a sensible measure. Sadly, what matters is "net engine power", which is the number at the crank shaft if you put it on a bench and stripped the gearbox off. Dynos only ever guesstimate that.
Thing is, it's a 500 twin, and as above, I really don't think you'll manage to find anyone's who's bothered. If they are, then a piece of paper saying "35kW, legit" is going to end conversations pretty quickly. Don't throw time or money at a bike of that age and (private resale) value, you'll never see it back again.
They're decent enough bikes, economical but fun when shown the whip. However, the brakes aren't all that even with the later twin discs up front rather than that single, and the rear shocks have free play from new and go saggy quickly.
Check for rot at the bottom of end cans just above where they join the pipes, and give the front suspension a good old bouncing to see if it's weeping. Heck, pop the dust caps and look to see if it's been packed with grease or paper.
There's nothing inherently wrong with them, it's just that at that age and dealer prices, it doesn't take much extra in the budget to get something like a privately owned ER6 with half the years on it. |
Well, i should have around £1800 budget that includes getting a bike and doing my test, insurance is paid for. £1100 for a bike and the rest for the test seems the best split i'm going to get
its not that i really want an ancient ex500 because i don't. its just a combo of factors that would make it easy for me and the fact that i wanted a little mini project for a bit. After all this i might as well get an sv650 or whatever else i can find for the same price. |
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ThatDippyTwat
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 20:42 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Hang on, you're not on the cusp of completing your A2?
Usual truism: any bike that's a bargain won't still be for sale by the weekend.
If you want a good, cheap bargain bike, you'll need to get your licence done, an indicative insurance quote prepped, and your bike budget in actual cash in your hand. Pounce on something that's just come on up on eBay, Gumtree or even Facebook like a kebab shop owner on a schoolgirl with low self esteem.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 22:02 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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| adengtg wrote: | Well, i should have around £1800 budget that includes getting a bike and doing my test, insurance is paid for. £1100 for a bike and the rest for the test seems the best split i'm going to get |
How is the Insurance paid for?
If you currently have a policy on a 125; you could get in the L-Plate trap, that the underwriters, (that's not the broker's who took your money, BTW) may not offer cover for bigger bikes; and you have to take out a brand new policy rather than change details on existing.
This is worth checking ALL the small-print T&C's very carefully, especially if your current policy is on monthly installment plan.
If you can just change details small bike to big, likely mid-term adjustment fees, penalties and admin charges can be punitive. (On my old duffer insurance, mid-term admin fees etc, make it actually more expensive to change anything on it, than just cancel and take out a new one! They're actually more than I pay for the policy!)
Factor in 'potential' No-Claims-Discount... you don't get it until policy expires at full term without claims remember; it MAY be worth riding out the duration of remaining policy on the 125, and then taking out new for bigger bike; rather than trying to do it in one shot, as soon as you have licence, and new bike.
Next up, chickens and eggs; no grantee you will pass tests on a DAS course; and failing DAS can get pricey... check more T&C small print with the school. They may insist on a full repeat course fee, and not offer half-days test lessons, or if they do, they can be exorbitantly priced compared to a full course.
And as existing 125'er... more chickens and eggs; don't assume that you have any better chance of 1st time pass than fresh faced DASser... you likely have many more habbits to get out of to get you up to test standard, so they may tell you that you need extra days before they'll put you forward for test, and or, you could muff the tests, 'reverting' to the habbits ingrained on tiddler.
More live-stock, but this time, best laid plans of mice and men, and all that....
So... area of uncertainty around the insurance and what that may really cost compared to what you estimate.
Estimate of £700 for the DAS course; more uncertainty still, until you have the licence in your pocket, you DON'T know exactly how much it will cost.
Leaves estimate of £1100 to buy a bike.... which, have to ask is that more estimation? How much is actual cash in your hand, at this point in time; how much is estimation of how much you hope to get for the 125 on open market; how much more is optimistic guestimation of what you might save twixt now and when you optimistically hope to ace a DAS course and tests... IF you dont have anything else come-up in the mean time, to more urgently beg available funds?
Best-Laid-Plans-of-Mice-And-Men!! (and the rest fades out into jockish-jibberish lol if memory serves, but still!)
How much can you actually bank on, here and now; no risk, no guess work? And how realistic are the guesses between the two?
Just because you have a full licence DOESN'T mean you HAVE to get a big bike in under six months; they don't take it off you if you don't, you know!
After I passed my test, quarter century or so back; I actually planned to ride it out, at least four months to clear the HP before looking for anything else; and as it fell, ISTR that due to insurance not falling in line with the HP plan, 'cos of prior theft, and chance to bank a few installments towards new bike, I actually rode it a couple of months beyond even that, to see out the policy... not that they gave us NCB for it back then, but still, it was extra full years verifiable riding history to help towards getting more 'sensible' quote on a big bike as an under 25 at the time... had the chuffin thing NOT been nicked yet an effin gain! Mice and Men! Mice and Men! Murphey say, make plans, please make plans! I could do wiv a laugh!lol.
And I tend to keep a 125 knocking about even now, for the cheaps and the laughs, that I still ride on full licence, and not have to make sure there's L's on it, and they have 'corners' to avoid plod moaning that they are 'damaged'!
Being a bit prudent..... do course... see how it goes... you may not pass, the school may suggest extra training required, you dont know how much it will ultimately cost. Don't put extra pressure on yourself to 'must-pass' because of all the follow ons you have hung on the deal.
WHEN you have licence in your pocket... remember rushin' be fast way to hurt on a motorbike... no rush... you have the licence, that's the important bit, and every week you DONT rush, is an extra week of NCB and licence held to declare later, whilst the 2-year probation to 'accelerated access' for RWYL 'A' is ebbing down in your favour, along with NDA probation if this is first full licence, rather than 2-year to repeat CBT ebbing away against you.
NO need to rush.... and it's mid July.... there's only about eight or nine weeks of summer left, until many will be stashing bikes for the winter; and the dark and the wet, IF you ride through it... could be done and done cheaply on the 125 you have been riding till now... and not have to get to grips with grip... or putting 4x the power to the tar when you aint got none.. and are trying to dodge miopic kiddie carriers unused to seeing bikes, let alone bikes in the dark and the rain!
Could give you till next spring to look for and sort another bike; by which time you wouln't have question mark hanging over cost of training and licence, that would have been done and dusted and paid for, and you'd have much less uncertainty of what you could have to buy bigger bike; you also have chances to pick up something out of season, that some-one is sick and tired or tripping over in the garage its sat in for three years, or missus is, and lack of sun-light doesn't give them pause to think 'May as well hang onto it... I might.." as they look at the clouds.. and or post Christmas credit card bills come in on top of the new tyres it needs, and they think to punt on if a regular rider....That... if you kept eyes open and snagged when you have more of a buyers market, you could still shed and SORN until insurance most ameniable...
Still not rushing... how much of accelerated access period does that eat up.... and if you want to deliberate, is any A2 bike going to be all that much use to you, until eligible for RWYL'A'.... a-n-d... another course? Or blagging it DIY turning up to retest on an A2 bike you have 'de-restricted' in the car-park.... options are myriad, and limiting riding time on A2, limits risks it would ever be questioned....
A-N-D you can still ride an A2 bike on RWYL'A' so still no rush to go get a Super-Ninja-Blade with the ink still wet... IF the A2 bike you have been riding hasn't had its restrictions mysteriously fall out before you have got that licence....
More live-stick analogies! More than one way to skin a cat, as they say.
BUT... a bit more to look into, and more to think about, other than just how to restrict an old 500!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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adengtg
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 02 Sep 2017
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| Posted: 17:56 - 20 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | adengtg wrote: | Well, i should have around £1800 budget that includes getting a bike and doing my test, insurance is paid for. £1100 for a bike and the rest for the test seems the best split i'm going to get |
How is the Insurance paid for?
If you currently have a policy on a 125; you could get in the L-Plate trap, that the underwriters, (that's not the broker's who took your money, BTW) may not offer cover for bigger bikes; and you have to take out a brand new policy rather than change details on existing.
This is worth checking ALL the small-print T&C's very carefully, especially if your current policy is on monthly installment plan.
If you can just change details small bike to big, likely mid-term adjustment fees, penalties and admin charges can be punitive. (On my old duffer insurance, mid-term admin fees etc, make it actually more expensive to change anything on it, than just cancel and take out a new one! They're actually more than I pay for the policy!)
Factor in 'potential' No-Claims-Discount... you don't get it until policy expires at full term without claims remember; it MAY be worth riding out the duration of remaining policy on the 125, and then taking out new for bigger bike; rather than trying to do it in one shot, as soon as you have licence, and new bike.
Next up, chickens and eggs; no grantee you will pass tests on a DAS course; and failing DAS can get pricey... check more T&C small print with the school. They may insist on a full repeat course fee, and not offer half-days test lessons, or if they do, they can be exorbitantly priced compared to a full course.
And as existing 125'er... more chickens and eggs; don't assume that you have any better chance of 1st time pass than fresh faced DASser... you likely have many more habbits to get out of to get you up to test standard, so they may tell you that you need extra days before they'll put you forward for test, and or, you could muff the tests, 'reverting' to the habbits ingrained on tiddler.
More live-stock, but this time, best laid plans of mice and men, and all that....
So... area of uncertainty around the insurance and what that may really cost compared to what you estimate.
Estimate of £700 for the DAS course; more uncertainty still, until you have the licence in your pocket, you DON'T know exactly how much it will cost.
Leaves estimate of £1100 to buy a bike.... which, have to ask is that more estimation? How much is actual cash in your hand, at this point in time; how much is estimation of how much you hope to get for the 125 on open market; how much more is optimistic guestimation of what you might save twixt now and when you optimistically hope to ace a DAS course and tests... IF you dont have anything else come-up in the mean time, to more urgently beg available funds?
Best-Laid-Plans-of-Mice-And-Men!! (and the rest fades out into jockish-jibberish lol if memory serves, but still!)
How much can you actually bank on, here and now; no risk, no guess work? And how realistic are the guesses between the two?
Just because you have a full licence DOESN'T mean you HAVE to get a big bike in under six months; they don't take it off you if you don't, you know!
After I passed my test, quarter century or so back; I actually planned to ride it out, at least four months to clear the HP before looking for anything else; and as it fell, ISTR that due to insurance not falling in line with the HP plan, 'cos of prior theft, and chance to bank a few installments towards new bike, I actually rode it a couple of months beyond even that, to see out the policy... not that they gave us NCB for it back then, but still, it was extra full years verifiable riding history to help towards getting more 'sensible' quote on a big bike as an under 25 at the time... had the chuffin thing NOT been nicked yet an effin gain! Mice and Men! Mice and Men! Murphey say, make plans, please make plans! I could do wiv a laugh!lol.
And I tend to keep a 125 knocking about even now, for the cheaps and the laughs, that I still ride on full licence, and not have to make sure there's L's on it, and they have 'corners' to avoid plod moaning that they are 'damaged'!
Being a bit prudent..... do course... see how it goes... you may not pass, the school may suggest extra training required, you dont know how much it will ultimately cost. Don't put extra pressure on yourself to 'must-pass' because of all the follow ons you have hung on the deal.
WHEN you have licence in your pocket... remember rushin' be fast way to hurt on a motorbike... no rush... you have the licence, that's the important bit, and every week you DONT rush, is an extra week of NCB and licence held to declare later, whilst the 2-year probation to 'accelerated access' for RWYL 'A' is ebbing down in your favour, along with NDA probation if this is first full licence, rather than 2-year to repeat CBT ebbing away against you.
NO need to rush.... and it's mid July.... there's only about eight or nine weeks of summer left, until many will be stashing bikes for the winter; and the dark and the wet, IF you ride through it... could be done and done cheaply on the 125 you have been riding till now... and not have to get to grips with grip... or putting 4x the power to the tar when you aint got none.. and are trying to dodge miopic kiddie carriers unused to seeing bikes, let alone bikes in the dark and the rain!
Could give you till next spring to look for and sort another bike; by which time you wouln't have question mark hanging over cost of training and licence, that would have been done and dusted and paid for, and you'd have much less uncertainty of what you could have to buy bigger bike; you also have chances to pick up something out of season, that some-one is sick and tired or tripping over in the garage its sat in for three years, or missus is, and lack of sun-light doesn't give them pause to think 'May as well hang onto it... I might.." as they look at the clouds.. and or post Christmas credit card bills come in on top of the new tyres it needs, and they think to punt on if a regular rider....That... if you kept eyes open and snagged when you have more of a buyers market, you could still shed and SORN until insurance most ameniable...
Still not rushing... how much of accelerated access period does that eat up.... and if you want to deliberate, is any A2 bike going to be all that much use to you, until eligible for RWYL'A'.... a-n-d... another course? Or blagging it DIY turning up to retest on an A2 bike you have 'de-restricted' in the car-park.... options are myriad, and limiting riding time on A2, limits risks it would ever be questioned....
A-N-D you can still ride an A2 bike on RWYL'A' so still no rush to go get a Super-Ninja-Blade with the ink still wet... IF the A2 bike you have been riding hasn't had its restrictions mysteriously fall out before you have got that licence....
More live-stick analogies! More than one way to skin a cat, as they say.
BUT... a bit more to look into, and more to think about, other than just how to restrict an old 500! |
My dad pays for the insurance... my current policy ends in august so it will be renewed to monthly until i get the big bike then bought as full year just in case of fees and all that.
Cash in hand, right now is nothing. minimum of £1700 is getting paid in in a few weeks for reasons i wont get into but that doesn't include selling my current 125 for minimum probably £500. Thing is, by the time ive done my test, xmas is coming around and presents for 17year olds are being bought so hopefully i should be able to get a bit more than i would expect for it but thats just a guess.
The test i will be taking will include the extra 125-A2 conversion day as ive only been riding 1 year and i want the extra experience. so its a little over the normal cost for DAS.
This is the whole thing of getting that ex500. its not the prittiest bike in the world but the plan in my head was to buy it, get it SORN and spend the next few months until i do the test cleaning it up and getting it ready for daily riding it. not just the ex500 but anything like that CB500, SV650 and the likes.
I honestly cannot stand going so slowly on my 125. i am a very heavy guy so i get 55mph max with my 11HP. i really want to get something bigger as soon as i can. was even considering getting an NSR125 as its as fast as you can get on CBT and can be tuned to 30hp but decided it wasnt worth the hassle for a few months of going slowly.
i just want to be able to cruise happily at 60-70mph and not have to change down to 4th gear every-time the wind picks up.
I started riding on 1st September last year on a burg-man style scooter which i swapped for my lexmoto in December. ridden it daily through winter and even went out during the beast from the east when the roads were sheet ice just to get some experience under my hat. didnt actually come off during that either... because i hit maybe 10mph max with my feet down! |
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