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ART-ADS |
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ART-ADS Nova Slayer
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 13:28 - 23 Aug 2018 Post subject: VT125 top end issues |
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Bike was running fine as I sorted out the cutting out issue by fixing the vacuum being caused in the fuel tank. I take a 100 + mile ride to an event and when I get there my front cylinder is ticking like mad.
I decide rather than get stranded by pulling it apart id take my chances and ride It home, power was down a LOT could only top 50mph, exhaust note was crap and tinny/ ticking sound and both cylinders were ticking
me and my dad had checked the valves on the rear cylinder only 500 miles or less beforehand and they were perfect so we didn't check the front- no ticking sounds just a check as the bike was on 23.5k miles and we didn't know how often it'd been serviced
I take the day off work to go through the heads and adjust the valves- exhaust is meant to be 0.2, on the front it was 0.6 and the back was also way bigger than it should, intake is meant to be 0.15 but again was 0.3 and the other one was much larger than spec
so in the 250 mile round trip my valves had gone from in spec to miles out??? didn't make sense to me
I thought it was the cam chain but nothing was broken and the tensioner worked when I pulled it out to have a look, back together no issues.
I then go to start thee bike and it starts right up! perfect I thought but I take it out for a ride and im down on power, I used to be able to cruise in top gear at 40mph at really low revs so I didn't annoy everyone with the loud exhaust and it sounded better, now I have to rev it a lot to get the same speeds and I didn't even hit 50 on the way to work where I normally do on the short straights (my commute is 5 mins down back roads and town streets)
the exhaust note after the adjustment had gone from the tinny sounding like a valve will drop to the same as normal (at idle until you have to rev it out where it just sounds like its revving high but not comfortable) but theres still a ticking sound coming from the engine (hence why I think its a worn cam) I asked my dad and he said a worn cam was rare??
when it took it out the revs also stuck a bit, like it'd rev high and not move faster (clutch slipping maybe??) then it'd fix itself sort of its difficult to explain that part
please any suggestions put down there i have a 300 mile round trip in the middle of next month and i want it running fine then, on the backroads id like to cruise as it did before at 40-50 at low revs and 60-70 when you're gunning the little thing
if iv made a mistake in what iv done let me know i need to get this sorted out!
thanks!
info (may be useful) - 2003 Honda vt 125 shadow, now on 24K miles, custom exhaust (straight through) ____________________ 98' RZ50, 92' H100S2, 03' VT125, 59' Jubilee 250, 05' varadero chop, |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 08:18 - 09 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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To be fair, Buster, the cams going, is very likely unrelated to his pigging about with the exhaust. When the follower has worn through the case-hardening ion the cam surface, they will tend to wear at an alarming rate.
Question is how and why did they get that bad.
125's suffer at the hands of learners; they either get completely neglected, or they get killed with kindness, with an awful lot of simple ineptitude chucked in to make matters worse.
VT125 shaddow motor, is also a plumbers nightmare. Same engine in the Very-Oh-Dear-Oh, it's over intricate and convoluted for that Harley-esque look.. which just makes it a nightmare to work on... 'cos not only is it overly intricate and convoluted, its also diddy!
Bought for the 'look'.. owners are to start with more likely to send any time they do on the thing with solvol than a spanner; and any money they have to chuck at it will more likely go on tassled bar grips or western style saddle bags, than on oil or brake pads....
The most likely root case of this things maledies, is a long string of style conciouse, know little owners, who have paid whey over the odds for a 'little' bike, then been loath to spend more on propper maintenance, when a DAS course is on the horizon.
Oil changes, even if contemplated, are likely to have not been done as often as required, or as diligently as they should; tappets will have been left until they are hammering like a pack of pixies on over time in the cobblers shop, cos its so difficult to get at the back ones, and its scary in there... there's OIL! Then WHEN they have finally been tackled... some-one will have struggled to get a feeler guage in there, and worked on the principle that the tighter the better, cos of how rattly they were to start with; tight tappets will load the cam gaces, omited oil-changes will have left hardened steel swarf floating around, accelerated wear will occur.
It wasn't 'sudenly' fcuked, it was fcuked a long time ago... and the fkcedness was just growing, then tipped over the edge.
As Steve sort of suggests though, if its been allowed to get that bad, for so long... and I am sanguine about suggested repairs.... the cams and followers would have been just lip of the lettuce, and chucking money at new cams and followers and stuff, to MY mind, would not be first course of action... its fixing the symptom, not tackling the cause or considering the contributory.
For it to have eaten its own cams... implication is that the thing suffered a heck of a lot of neglect and panic mechanic maintenance.. and failure of the cams, wil have left a lot of unseen damage in the engine, after whatever was responsible for the cams.
Best case... tappets were wound up too tight 'once' motor was run low on oil 'once'.. cams gone... new cams fix symptom, and plenty of flushing should take any residual grinding past out the sump....
But, more likely, its been run low on oil a lot. Its been run with the tappets too tight and too loose for long periods; bearings will have blued, swarf will have got into things like the oil pump, into the galleries, the cylinders will likely have worn as much as the cams, and the thing probably could do with a rebore; small ends will have been ground down by swarf; mains will have been chewed, and big-ends blued.
Whole motor would need a total tear-down to find out just how extensive the damage caused really was, and a diligent rebuild to put it properly to rights...
And likely that still the case.... BUT with a few new bits making good the obviouse, it hopefully wil last a few more thousand... and stacve off being really beyond ecconomical.....
In which time... its dead metal breathing.... it aint gonna get any less dead... so what the heck... chop the 'zorst, fit a screamin'dodo filter, polish the chrome, and make the most of it... whilst it lasts! Lol! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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ART-ADS Nova Slayer
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Posted: 10:51 - 14 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Teflon-Mike wrote: | To be fair, Buster, the cams going, is very likely unrelated to his pigging about with the exhaust. When the follower has worn through the case-hardening ion the cam surface, they will tend to wear at an alarming rate.
Question is how and why did they get that bad.
125's suffer at the hands of learners; they either get completely neglected, or they get killed with kindness, with an awful lot of simple ineptitude chucked in to make matters worse.
VT125 shaddow motor, is also a plumbers nightmare. Same engine in the Very-Oh-Dear-Oh, it's over intricate and convoluted for that Harley-esque look.. which just makes it a nightmare to work on... 'cos not only is it overly intricate and convoluted, its also diddy!
Bought for the 'look'.. owners are to start with more likely to send any time they do on the thing with solvol than a spanner; and any money they have to chuck at it will more likely go on tassled bar grips or western style saddle bags, than on oil or brake pads....
The most likely root case of this things maledies, is a long string of style conciouse, know little owners, who have paid whey over the odds for a 'little' bike, then been loath to spend more on propper maintenance, when a DAS course is on the horizon.
Oil changes, even if contemplated, are likely to have not been done as often as required, or as diligently as they should; tappets will have been left until they are hammering like a pack of pixies on over time in the cobblers shop, cos its so difficult to get at the back ones, and its scary in there... there's OIL! Then WHEN they have finally been tackled... some-one will have struggled to get a feeler guage in there, and worked on the principle that the tighter the better, cos of how rattly they were to start with; tight tappets will load the cam gaces, omited oil-changes will have left hardened steel swarf floating around, accelerated wear will occur.
It wasn't 'sudenly' fcuked, it was fcuked a long time ago... and the fkcedness was just growing, then tipped over the edge.
As Steve sort of suggests though, if its been allowed to get that bad, for so long... and I am sanguine about suggested repairs.... the cams and followers would have been just lip of the lettuce, and chucking money at new cams and followers and stuff, to MY mind, would not be first course of action... its fixing the symptom, not tackling the cause or considering the contributory.
For it to have eaten its own cams... implication is that the thing suffered a heck of a lot of neglect and panic mechanic maintenance.. and failure of the cams, wil have left a lot of unseen damage in the engine, after whatever was responsible for the cams.
Best case... tappets were wound up too tight 'once' motor was run low on oil 'once'.. cams gone... new cams fix symptom, and plenty of flushing should take any residual grinding past out the sump....
But, more likely, its been run low on oil a lot. Its been run with the tappets too tight and too loose for long periods; bearings will have blued, swarf will have got into things like the oil pump, into the galleries, the cylinders will likely have worn as much as the cams, and the thing probably could do with a rebore; small ends will have been ground down by swarf; mains will have been chewed, and big-ends blued.
Whole motor would need a total tear-down to find out just how extensive the damage caused really was, and a diligent rebuild to put it properly to rights...
And likely that still the case.... BUT with a few new bits making good the obviouse, it hopefully wil last a few more thousand... and stacve off being really beyond ecconomical.....
In which time... its dead metal breathing.... it aint gonna get any less dead... so what the heck... chop the 'zorst, fit a screamin'dodo filter, polish the chrome, and make the most of it... whilst it lasts! Lol! |
hopefully it lasts the next 18 months until I'm 19 ____________________ 98' RZ50, 92' H100S2, 03' VT125, 59' Jubilee 250, 05' varadero chop, |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 164 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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