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dolly3900
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Joined: 12 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 07 Sep 2018    Post subject: I'm Back And Got A Problem Reply with quote

Hiya guys and guyettes, I've been offline for a while, change of job and far too many work commitments meaning too much time in work, nowhere near enough on bike and no time for BCF'ing.

Anyhoo, on to my reason for posting.

My lads (mentioned in previous posts), have all moved on from the trusty 125 now and progressed to various bigger bikes and cages, leaving the poor little CBF125 surplus to requirements.

I have done a bit of cosmetic refurbishment to it and, once looking pretty, it was used for a few months just to get around whilst #1 son had his 650 nicked (long story).

Since then, it has been sat in the shed, lonely and scared, but now I have someone interested in giving it a new home and the love it deserves.

Problem is that when I hit the starter button after checking the usual battery, oil, fuel, etc. the little bugger will just not start.

After testing all sorts of things, did a compression test ant it is reading bugger all, you can put your finger over the plug hole and can hold it there.

Now then, suggestions I've had are rings (would they have fallen out whilst at rest), Valves (left in the fully open position when standing and oil clogged them up to stay open).

Short of stripping the engine down, which I don't have the time for, any ideas from the massive brain and experience that is the BFC collective.

Cheers guys.

Mike
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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Oldie
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 07 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero compression Confused

Maybe check the clutch operation?
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McJamweasel
BCF Junkie



Joined: 22 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 07 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldie wrote:
Zero compression Confused

Maybe check the clutch operation?


What does the clutch have to do with compression?
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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 07 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

McJamweasel wrote:
What does the clutch have to do with compression?


I wondered that too. Laughing

It could be stuck rings - try pouring a small amount of diesel into the cylinder and letting it stand for a day or two. That might free things up.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 08 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last single cyl engine with the same issue i had was the exhaust valve stuck open.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 00:57 - 08 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a valve stuck open, which sounds like a possibility, watch this video, from 14:30 :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHLKIEGALvk
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dolly3900
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Joined: 12 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 08 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the replies.
I've tried redex down the plug hole, but no joy, will try a bit of diesel later and see if that works.

I'll take a look at the YouTube video in a bit and see how I go.

Long time away and still the help and response does not disappoint.

Many thanks
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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L33n
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 23 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: 08:38 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
The last single cyl engine with the same issue i had was the exhaust valve stuck open.


Please tell me how the rings can be stuck?? If crank shaft turning piston has no choice but to move unless fully seized if this is the case the stater motor wouldn't work & would click in the sola same as flat battery so piston moving rings sit in piston witch then squash shut wen cylinder is pushed over how are these rings then stuck? Lmao absolute moroons 100000% your rings ain't stuck pal maybe worn but not stuck if bike was fully working before you've left to stand now no compression most probably is valves open although with it being ohc it should release wen oil gets round as tappets tap & springs are quite strong tbf so with luck if is valves they might release although if you haven't put bit of oil in spark plug hole & its been dry you might of scored your head & rings might be worth whipping head off take you hr tops that way can check valves & piston at same time
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dolly3900
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re. Stuck rings.
As the bore is not a perfectly parallel cast and honed to an approximate, if the piston stopped when hot at a high point, the oil/carbon build up could make the rings stick in their groves, not against the walls, so when cool and gummed up, they'd not expand enough to take up the slacking the bore, hence no compression due to sticky rings.
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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Evil Hans
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Joined: 08 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

L33n wrote:
jaffa90 wrote:
The last single cyl engine with the same issue i had was the exhaust valve stuck open.


Please tell me how the rings can be stuck??


Seriously? Do you even know the difference between valves, rings and pistons?

Rings can seize in their grooves, and valves can stick open, without seizing the whole engine.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

L33n wrote:

Lmao absolute moroons


QFT
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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

L33n wrote:


Please tell me how the rings can be stuck?? If crank shaft turning piston has no choice but to move unless fully seized if this is the case the stater motor wouldn't work & would click in the sola same as flat battery so piston moving rings sit in piston witch then squash shut wen cylinder is pushed over how are these rings then stuck? Lmao absolute moroons 100000% your rings ain't stuck pal maybe worn but not stuck if bike was fully working before you've left to stand now no compression most probably is valves open although with it being ohc it should release wen oil gets round as tappets tap & springs are quite strong tbf so with luck if is valves they might release although if you haven't put bit of oil in spark plug hole & its been dry you might of scored your head & rings might be worth whipping head off take you hr tops that way can check valves & piston at same time


Wow. The voice of inexperience/ignorance.

The rings can and do get stuck in the grooves - old oil and carbon can cause this. Yes the piston will move but the rings will be stuck and compression would be lost. It's a common problem.

Guess who's the "absolute moroon" here then... Rolling Eyes Laughing
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

L33n wrote:

Please tell me how the rings can be stuck?? If crank shaft turning piston has no choice but to move unless fully seized if this is the case the stater motor wouldn't work & would click in the sola same as flat battery so piston moving rings sit in piston witch then squash shut wen cylinder is pushed over how are these rings then stuck? Lmao absolute moroons 100000% your rings ain't stuck pal maybe worn but not stuck if bike was fully working before you've left to stand now no compression most probably is valves open although with it being ohc it should release wen oil gets round as tappets tap & springs are quite strong tbf so with luck if is valves they might release although if you haven't put bit of oil in spark plug hole & its been dry you might of scored your head & rings might be worth whipping head off take you hr tops that way can check valves & piston at same time


Quoted for reference... You've already made a pratt of yourself on here in another thread, so I predict either a flounce or a ban within the next two weeks...
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BusterGonads
Formerly known as
tony1951



Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 09 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP has tried oil down the plug hole with no joy, so it now looks more and more likely that he has a stuck open valve. The video posted earlier shows an interesting approach to freeing off a stuck valve without having the head off. I remember a loooong time ago riding out with mates on a borrowed 350 BSA single which had an exhaust valve lifter. I think it was a B33. Every bloody time the thing stopped the exhaust valve stuck open and I had the head off at least twice on the ride out which was only about forty miles. Fortunately the head was only held down by four pull down stud things. I don't know what they are called but these things were half way down the barrel on the outside and there were captive studs on the head pointing downwards which engaged with these deep nut / stud things. It took about ten minutes to have the head off, tap the offending valve with a screwdriver handle and 'ping' it shut. Back on and off we went again phutphut phutting down the old A69. This is about half a century ago or very nearly.

You can see the fasteners down near the bottom of the cylinder here. The one I was riding wasn't in this condition.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/bsa/10361485.jpg
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bikenut
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 10 Sep 2018    Post subject: sticky Reply with quote

Yes rings can and do stick, yes valves can and do stick, open usually, so can clutch plates and caliper pistons, a yes valves can even "TANGLE" !!!!!!!!!!

Valves on bikes ( apart from side valves ) , but not all bikes, are usually "inclined" meaning that a stuck open one will be really damaged by a rising piston. Valve, guide, head and piston in real danger, SO ALWAYS CHECK !!

So, at valve overlap,exhaust vale stuck open, opening inlet now opens and TANGLES with the stuck exhaust..........result bent valves etc.......

Valves in line with pistons may "snap back closed" by a rising piston, or as in some car engine etc. bend a push rod or break a rocker arm.......so take notice, there's a poppet.
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dolly3900
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Joined: 12 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update.......

OK, the lad came home with his boroscope and has taken a look at the internals.

Good news, the valves are opening and closing as they should.
Fuel is getting thrown into the bore as should be.

Bad news, the piston is moving about 3mm when turned over which would suggest that there is something more or less terminal, either broken piston skirt, rod, crank or like that kind of area.

Basically we are fubar.

He's going to drop the engine, strip down, diagnose and act accordingly.

Replace parts if cheap enough.

Possibly a dropped CB? at the local scrappy with much panel damage but probably a good engine.

Will post updates as I get them.

Thanks for the pointers.

Mike
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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dolly3900
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so the engine has had a strip down and it's not looking too good.

Looks like the piston skirt has disintegrated and left to piston at the top of travel.

Photos to follow.
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortunately I'd already enemied him/he/it within a couple of posts.
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dolly3900
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/IMAG0583_zpszga8a6b6.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/IMAG0582_zpsqi9dn31z.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/IMAG0580_zpsadytidit.jpg
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



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PostPosted: 20:20 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolly3900 wrote:


Holy shit, that's impressive.

Also, Laughing @ L33n's weapons-grade retardation.
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Nobby the Bastard
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 20:22 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolly3900 wrote:


Fuck me.

Time to buy a new engine, there's no point trying to fix that. I dread to consider what condition the barrel is in.
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dolly3900
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barrel does not look too bad Smile

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0587_zpskjtovs97.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0586_zps5w92tjjz.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0585_zpsix8b5vqf.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/mikeallen3lly3900/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0585_zpsix8b5vqf.jpg
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? Okay? Apart from the fact it's looking incredibly worn there's this.

https://i.imgur.com/2KEy0i8.jpg
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dolly3900
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Really? Okay? Apart from the fact it's looking incredibly worn there's this.

https://i.imgur.com/2KEy0i8.jpg


Yeah, tongue firmly in cheek when I posted.
New barrel and piston on order.

Rest of it being stripped, cleaned, checked and made sure no damage before reassembly.
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2002 Rieju RS2-50 (Sold, spares or repair), 2010 Suzuki DR-125SM (Traded for ->), 2007 Honda CBF 600 (Sold), 2010 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 (Briefly, now returned), 2007 Suzuki Intruder 1800m (Even More Briefly, traded in for ->), 2014 Suzuki V-Strom 650
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