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Adapting a Reg/Rec

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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 17 Sep 2018    Post subject: Adapting a Reg/Rec Reply with quote

So the regulator has failed on my Silver Wing - not a big deal, research how to take off the front fairing, buy the part, take a deep breath and get stuck in.

Except, having spent an inordinate amount of time getting the front fairing off, it turns out my 2002 registered bike is actually a 2001 model and the Reg/Rec is behind the LH side panel.

Much easier to get at, but throws up two problems:

1. The 2002 onwards part only requires the wiring to stretch 8 inches at the most, so that's what it comes with - the 2001 model needs the stator harness to go half the length of the bike, then across the engine and finish behind the RH footplate.

2. Nobody seems to do a pattern part for the 2001 model, but it's available from Honda, which is great, apart from the fact it's around £250, as against the seemingly useless part I've already spent £70 on and I can't send back.

My pattern part has two wiring tails - one multi coloured (red, green and black, from memory) which will go to the original plug, the other is three identical yellow wires, which need to connect to the stator.

Does anyone know if there is any reason why I can't cut and splice those wires into the original loom and do I need to connect them in any particular order, or can I connect any yellow wire to any other yellow wire?

TYA
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 17 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Adapting a Reg/Rec Reply with quote

I believe each wire is for the phases of the stator and they are interchangeable .
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 18 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep
Any yellow to any yellow
Just make sure you have really good connections.
Poor connections here will get hot and be prone to burn out.
many reg/rec connectors suffer in this area

Red = DC out
Green = Ground
Black = Sense wire

This black wire often goes well into the loom to 'sense' and compensate for voltage drop.
All well and good when new I spose but on older bikes,any iffy connections, and the resistance created from these will drive the output voltage up.
I've seen some as high as 18V!

As an experiment I connected my black sense wire to the red DC out wire years ago and still get a good steady 14V as near as
from my circa 1979 Regrec.

There were some doom sayers when I tried it, but I reckon
10 years without it bursting into flames is proof enough
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 18 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Yep
Any yellow to any yellow
Just make sure you have really good connections.


There's a UK company that sells pattern stators that come with a broken down plug kit (you need to feed the wires through a grommet, before you fit the plug) that I'm hoping to buy a plug from.

If that doesn't happen, I will solder and heat shrink the connections
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 18 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you cab give me a photo of the plugs I probably have them. If not I will have plugs that can take 30+ amps at 12v
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 18 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, a very kind offer sickpup, but I've been in touch with Electrexworld today and they are sending me a complete plug kit, so (fingers crossed) I should be sorted.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The saga continues.

Having sorted out a resolution to adapting the yellow wiring, I should've looked a bit harder at the other tail.

My new part features two red, two green and one black wire, the existing bike wiring doesn't have a black wire at all.

So now what?
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Poor connections here will get hot and be prone to burn out.
many reg/rec connectors suffer in this area

Many owners don't bother with cleaning the connectors, which leads to poor connection and eventually a fire hazard. It's not a design flaw. Thumbs Up
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
The saga continues.

Having sorted out a resolution to adapting the yellow wiring, I should've looked a bit harder at the other tail.

My new part features two red, two green and one black wire, the existing bike wiring doesn't have a black wire at all.

So now what?


You need to know if the black wire is grounded or voltage sensing. It's been many years since I had to do a reg/rec conversion (I believe the last one was my dad's CB650 or perhaps his GS850) but I do recall there were two types.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^ That's me trying to find a wiring diagram then..........
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red DC out Green ground black sense
I've seen quite a few Honda RRs like this
The idea is I presume, to have two cables/connectors share the load
I've often just strapped them together but a meter test will confirm they're common to each other.
Strap the black sense wire to a Red out or battery pos terminal or
where they often terminate at the solenoid.
It doesn't carry any load, it's just for voltage feedback
If you leave it floating the output voltage will go very high
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Red DC out Green ground black sense
I've seen quite a few Honda RRs like this
The idea is I presume, to have two cables/connectors share the load
I've often just strapped them together but a meter test will confirm they're common to each other.
Strap the black sense wire to a Red out or battery pos terminal or
where they often terminate at the solenoid.
It doesn't carry any load, it's just for voltage feedback
If you leave it floating the output voltage will go very high


So basically, greens to greens, reds to reds, black to either red and I pay you an irate visit, if the whole plot goes up in flames Laughing
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have all the CXs electrical gubbins indoors atm cos of rewire/refurb
and here's the RR that's been running reliably for years now.
See how the Black wire is commoned to the DC out Red/white?

https://imgur.com/dsghBZQ.jpg
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try and put up some pictures of what I've got to work with tomorrow, then you see what I'm trying to do.

I can't find anything that tells me what horrific error Honda made to make them completely change the wiring and location after the first year of production, but it does make me wonder what I'm letting myself in for Confused
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

Sorted out the wiring and all seemed good, so took the plunge and embarked on the 25 mile ride home from work on Tuesday night.

Stopped to pick up food at my local supermarket, 3 miles from my destination, chucked my dinner in the top box and then had that horrible sinking feeling, when you hit the button and get two slow turns and a series of clicks.

Recovered back to work and tests the next day showed varying resistance across the stator wires and output voltage dropping with revs - dead stator.

New one arrived yesterday, fitting day today.

First issue was the oil drain plug, which refused to come out (known problem with these, soft ally plug, must use 6 sided socket, notorious for rounding off) so I decided I could deal with that at a later point and suffer oil everywhere by taking off the engine cover.

First job is to get access to everything, so remove the swing arm pivot point

https://i.imgur.com/Ce3BwRx.jpg?1

See those bolt heads?

They are pretty hefty T-50 Torx bolts - using only hand tools, ripped the centres out of both of them Rolling Eyes

So I gave up, came home and I'm having a few beers, while I contemplate how to win the fight against this bastard bike.
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give you £50 for it Razz
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm rapidly getting to that point.

I love riding the thing and I don't mind a few running repairs, but when something is fighting me every step of the way, I start to wonder if it's worth cutting my losses early.
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tittymcarsefa...
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 16 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have three wires then you have a delta wound stator and should be fine wiring them to any of the other yellow wires.

The red will likely go to battery, the black will likely be a sense wire and go to the main live AFTER the ignition switch and the green will likely be ground.

You can fit a delta type 5 wire reg rec just don't wire in the sense wire, it will work fine.


Last edited by tittymcarseface on 22:50 - 16 Oct 2018; edited 1 time in total
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tittymcarsefa...
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 16 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IRWIN-5-Piece-BASE-Damaged-Bolt-Grip-Nut-Remover-Set-10-16mm-Case-10504634/382561708092?epid=4003304728&hash=item591274683c:g:N4UAAOSwRyZblo0y:rk:5:pf:0

These are great for rounded nuts just order the size you need and tap it on, as you turn it should bite into the nut gripping it solid.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 16 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Thanks for your input, all sorted now.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 17 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

tittymcarseface wrote:
If you have three wires then you have a delta wound stator and should be fine wiring them to any of the other yellow wires.

The red will likely go to battery, the black will likely be a sense wire and go to the main live AFTER the ignition switch and the green will likely be ground.

You can fit a delta type 5 wire reg rec just don't wire in the sense wire, it will work fine.


Bollocks
not least the
"just don't wire in the sense wire, it will work fine" comment
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tittymcarsefa...
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 17 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading the whole thread (i didn't before i posted) it would seem you yourself agree with the function of the colours i suggested so how is it bollox

A five wire delta wound reg rec will have three yellow, a live and an earth, they will function perfectly fine on a bike previously fitted with a six wire.

You can hook the live from the reg rec to the sense wire instead of the battery as long as the wiring is the right gauge, this would stop the reg rec being permanently live but most 5 wire reg recs are wired to the battery or fuse box and are permanently live.

A six wire reg rec on a 5 wire bike will still work with the volt sense wire disconnected but may not be as efficient as with the sense wire connected, there is nothing stopping you juining the black to the red but you will be permanently living two parts of the reg rec instead of just one.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 17 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Adapting a Reg/Rec Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
I believe each wire is for the phases of the stator and they are interchangeable .


This
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