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Give Cyclists some room 1.5m coz it's now the Law.

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Chutzpah
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Joined: 03 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Rednine wrote:
Whose picking up the tab for all the white paint going down on the road for cycle lanes, especially here in Hampshire and Dorset.............we are, motorists, van and truck drivers, and motorcyclists? Answer - make cyclists pay a road tax or whatever it's called now. They should easily be able to cough up a fiver or tenner per annum.


You pay 'Road Tax'?


The hilarity that would ensue if motorists "got their way" and had to actually fully cover the costs of maintaining and building the road network using ring-fenced "road tax" would be brilliant, aside from the fact that my bill would also greatly increase.

Anyway, the answer for Rednine here is it's probably a mixture of central government funds if the council applied for them, and council tax.

So who's paying for it? Taxpayers....

But we all know that there's no way cyclists ever pay tax.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do some folk pick on cyclists and suggest that they pay to use the roads?

There are many road users who are exempt.

Pedestrians.
Horsemen/women.
Horse pulled vehicles.

And:

Vehicles used by a disabled person
You can claim disability exemption when you apply for vehicle tax. Find out if you’re eligible and how to claim.

You can remove an exemption from a vehicle if it’s no longer being used by a disabled person.

Disabled passenger vehicles
Vehicles (apart from ambulances) used by organisations providing transport for disabled people are exempt.

Mobility scooters, powered wheel chairs and invalid carriages
They must have a maximum speed of 8mph on the road, and be fitted with a device limiting them to 4mph on footways to be exempt.

Historic vehicles
Vehicles made before 1 January 1978 are exempt from 1 April 2018.

Electric vehicles
The electricity must come from an external source or an electric storage battery not connected to any source of power when the vehicle is moving to be exempt.

Electric vehicles priced at more than £40,000
You still have to pay an extra tax for a vehicle with a list price over £40,000 if it was registered after 31 March 2017.

Mowing machines
The mower must be designed, constructed and used just for cutting grass to be exempt. It does not include tractors used to tow gang mowers.

Steam vehicles
You do not have to pay vehicle tax on any steam-powered vehicle.

Vehicles used just for agriculture, horticulture and forestry
This includes tractors, agricultural engines and light agricultural vehicles used off-road. It also includes ‘limited use’ vehicles used for short journeys (not more than 1.5 kilometres) on the public road between land that’s occupied by the same person.
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Why do some folk pick on cyclists and suggest that they pay to use the roads?


Ignorance... I just always say I pay VED at band A rate when anyone asks.

More often than not they don't even realise such a thing exists.

(Also fun to bring up various band A vehicles and ask if they are also freeloaders not paying their way)
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AdamEf
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cycle to get to work most of the time and last I looked I was paying quite a considerable amount of whatever type of tax you want to call it on a van, a large car and a motorbike. Plus actually paying for cycle lanes etc out of the place that a lot of the money really comes from for local road schemes... council tax.

Loads of new cycle facilities near us are paid for by construction companies as part of their development bids for the housing estates etc that they build too.
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamEf wrote:
Loads of new cycle facilities near us are paid for by construction companies as part of their development bids for the housing estates etc that they build too.


Don't be silly, cyclists don't buy houses Wink

But on a more serious note, all the ones they do around here are pointless, like the shared use pavement one they "installed" that exits the new estate they built, goes up the 30mph road towards a NSL country A road and ends pointlessly next to a hedge right as the speed limit changes.

If they'd pointed it in the opposite direction it would have actually been useful for schoolkids and got them to the local secondary school. But that would involve engaging brain.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 12:58 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Why do some folk pick on cyclists and suggest that they pay to use the roads?

Because they're angry, unhappy people.

Plenty of them will also get unhappy about motorcycles filtering past them in traffic.

I think jealousy comes into it as well.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 04:56 - 27 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had to explan this to govenment data-modlellers with phds in fluid dynamics (go figure) but I didn't think I'd be pointing this out here.

Car passing a bicycle with substantial velocity difference and there will be a substantial volume of disturbed air around the car that could destabilise cyclist. Car drivers usually oblivious to thier external aero effect until you point out specifc places where this is noticable like right filter lane at traffic lights with traffic in both directions going past at ~30mph causing car to shake.

Bicycle passing slow moving car, aero effects barley noticable.

One of these circumstances requires a 1.5m of space or so to safely pass, one of these requires not catching mirrors with elbows. The 1.5m guidance exists for the operators of vehicles mostly oblivious to their own aero effects, becase a rule that varies geometricly (like braking distance) would be far to complicated and impractical.

The article is pretty awful though "According to experts", which experts? Has this 1.5m been through a test case? is it in a peer revieweid achadmic journal or repute? or the opinion of an expert cyclist? And what law? I'd be guesing it's handled under careless /inconsiderate driving but this article reads like someone read a bad article in the daily mai lthat at least named sources but had to cut those out to get past the plaigarism detector?
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Johanna
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 28 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
So, do lorries and cars always have to give pedestrians a 1.5M wide berth?

Yes!

When air moves over an object (or an object moves through air), the airspeed on the surface of the object is zero. This is called the "boundary layer". A car brings a "bubble" of air with them which effectively means the car is bigger than it looks. Slipstreaming takes advantage of this.

Then there is also turbulence, with air moving in swirls around protruding bits of vehicles and behind the vehicle.

If you get sucked along smoothly then you're in a laminar (clean) boundary layer. If you're getting buffeted all over the place then the flow is turbulent.

Both are dangerous to cyclists.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 28 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

talkToTheHat wrote:
I've had to explan this to govenment data-modlellers with phds in fluid dynamics (go figure) but I didn't think I'd be pointing this out here.

Car passing a bicycle with substantial velocity difference and there will be a substantial volume of disturbed air around the car that could destabilise cyclist. Car drivers usually oblivious to thier external aero effect until you point out specifc places where this is noticable like right filter lane at traffic lights with traffic in both directions going past at ~30mph causing car to shake.

Bicycle passing slow moving car, aero effects barley noticable.

One of these circumstances requires a 1.5m of space or so to safely pass, one of these requires not catching mirrors with elbows. The 1.5m guidance exists for the operators of vehicles mostly oblivious to their own aero effects, becase a rule that varies geometricly (like braking distance) would be far to complicated and impractical.

The article is pretty awful though "According to experts", which experts? Has this 1.5m been through a test case? is it in a peer revieweid achadmic journal or repute? or the opinion of an expert cyclist? And what law? I'd be guesing it's handled under careless /inconsiderate driving but this article reads like someone read a bad article in the daily mai lthat at least named sources but had to cut those out to get past the plaigarism detector?


Very Tef-esque. Smile

The 1.5mtr is more likely just to allow for wobble-osity.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 03:07 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:

So, do lorries and cars always have to give pedestrians a 1.5M wide berth?


Just how close to pedestrans do you get? Consider how close to the pavement you get in a car and whether it is safe to do 30 when driving a few inches from a buisy pavement. Consider the safely line on platforms at railway stations as a simulator for this in fairly controlled circumstances.

But can anyone find evidence the long recommended 1.5 m has become uk law?

At which point you're down to the opinion of teh plod as to whether the space given in those circumstances and conditions was enough.

Is the bullshit article perhaps confusing home-grown law with that of one of the colonies? I think some Australian states are quite proscriptive on this. A quick google points me at something at least recognisable as quality tablod journalism which clarifies the issue
Quote:
The Highway Code currently doesn’t state a minimum distance between cars and bikes and only instructs drivers to give ''plenty of room''.

Many other countries have introduced passing distances with gaps of at least a metre on local roads and 1.5m on faster routes.


I'm sorry. I need to go use the metaphorical emergency decontamination shower now.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

talkToTheHat wrote:
But can anyone find evidence the long recommended 1.5 m has become uk law?


It's "proposed". All sources I can find just say "law", so your guess is as good as mine as to how this will be implemented, if it ever is.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that does annoy me about push bikes is them being used on NSL dual carriageways when there are cycle paths/roads for the same route.

In Milton Keynes there are redways for cyclists and walkers that allow you to go everywhere in the city without hitting any of the dual carriageways or the A5 yet cyclists including kids, families and the lycra mob still use the main roads.

Edit to add -

That's of course when they aren't hurtling down the canal towpath ringing their bells like a demented campanologist expecting you to jump out of their way even when you are trying to tie up an 18 ton canal boat. Evil or Very Mad
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle lanes are littered with pedestrians, broken glass, dog eggs, etc etc etc. so riding on the roads is much less hassle and much faster.

Riding in the road also means you don't have to cross every road that turns off is also better.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trick with ones who expect you to jump out of your way is to not jump out their way. They will brake and swerve. Laughing
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The trick with ones who expect you to jump out of your way is to not jump out their way. They will brake and swerve. Laughing


Yes, I have hooked more than one bike and rider out of the canal. Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Something that does annoy me about push bikes is them being used on NSL dual carriageways when there are cycle paths/roads for the same route.

In Milton Keynes there are redways for cyclists and walkers that allow you to go everywhere in the city without hitting any of the dual carriageways or the A5 yet cyclists including kids, families and the lycra mob still use the main roads.

Edit to add -

That's of course when they aren't hurtling down the canal towpath ringing their bells like a demented campanologist expecting you to jump out of their way even when you are trying to tie up an 18 ton canal boat. Evil or Very Mad


Try riding a bike on a cycle path/lane.

They are notoriously poorly planned and maintained. It's like the cooncil have a couple of tins of white gloss at the end of the fiscal year which is enough to do some cycle paths/lanes. Smile
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Ste wrote:
The trick with ones who expect you to jump out of your way is to not jump out their way. They will brake and swerve. Laughing


Yes, I have hooked more than one bike and rider out of the canal. Laughing


This post is abusive.

Smile
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