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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Work Dilemma Reply with quote

Want an opinion on my situation, ill try to give as broad of a scene as possible but theres some job info i cant divuldge.

I work for a large engineering company, they pay decently and its quite a hard place to get into. I served a 3 year apprenticeship and then was offered a full time role upon completion. The last 6 months of my apprenticeship was in final placement where I am currently. I've been in my current role for around 1 year.

The job is doing "tasks" and im in a team of 8. We pick tasks from an electronic list which is filled by manufacturing. The tasks can be quite involved or fairly simple, taking either a few hours or a few days to complete.

However I am finding I am completing a LOT more tasks than my peers (you can check how long it has taken them to sign out and complete a task). I used to think it was because i just cherry picked the 'easier' jobs or rushing the work... but even then I am finding 20 mins tasks (for me) people will take days to complete. Even now i am picking up all types of jobs and completing far quicker than my peers.

Now i am not saying i am smarter than these people. Most are old (55+) , and have vast knowledge on the subject matter. However if i dont understand a task that i have picked up i will go about finding out how to resolve it , even if it is a difficult task. Sometimes, yes, i will ask them for help/guidance but usually only the harder working people.

In the year i've recorded my tasks on a spreadsheet (for reference on similar tasks), and have around 500 completed. I estimate most others have around 200, possible 300.

So thats that then////

Am I right in feeling hard done by? My manager (who is newer to the team than me) is really pushing me to be a part of the business and wants me to progress. I love my job and am thankful for it, do i risk upsetting the balance by asking for a grade rise or do i just carry on as normal and look for internal openings to progress?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Work Dilemma Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:


In the year i've recorded my tasks on a spreadsheet (for reference on similar tasks), and have around 500 completed. I estimate most others have around 200, possible 300.

So thats that then////

Am I right in feeling hard done by? My manager (who is newer to the team than me) is really pushing me to be a part of the business and wants me to progress. I love my job and am thankful for it, do i risk upsetting the balance by asking for a grade rise or do i just carry on as normal and look for internal openings to progress?



This reminds me of several situations I've witnessed.

In Asda an Indian woman was possibly the fastest checkout person I had ever seen. She'd clear our the conveyor belt really fast as such people would go to her checkout and not others. After a while she slowed down to the rate everybody else did and blended in.

Similarly when I audited an engineering company I found an outlier. Just like you he was billing a hell of a lot more than the other engineers. I had a talk with him and he pretty much said everybody else tended to stretch out the jobs as long as possible to mostly dodge work and get paid the same.


My advice would be to tread carefully as you're rocking the boat and other people may plot against you. My dept manager wasn't happy when I did tax returns much faster than everybody else.


Me personally I would try move upwards in the company and use this extra effort as evidence of your competence when your boss/manager says why should you get a promotion or move to a different department?

This is good because it's not you calling them slow/lazy the figures will say it themselves and if he has any nous it'll get caught in the internal audit and or appraisals.
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King29
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blend in. Put as much effort in as the next man. No more no less.

Remember.




If you work and do your best

You'll get the sack like all the rest

But if you laze and sod about

You'll live to see the job right out

The work is hard, the pay is small

So take your time, and sod them all

'Cos when you're dead, you'll be forgot

So don't try doing the bleeding lot

Or on your tombstone neatly lacquered

These three words....

Just Bleeding Knackered
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your line manager is pushing you to progress, go and talk to him about how he thinks you should aim at that progression.

Or put a calendar of Putin on your desk and do as stinkwheel does, ask what Putin would do while fiddling with your gun. Thumbs Up
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grr666
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't do too much for a good guvnor. Do more and get more given to you to do. While that's great when on price
work, anywhere else being keen at a low pay grade will just saddle you with more work to do. The old boys have
sussed this out. Besides, they don't need to work as hard as you. I'd bet most have their mortgages paid and
with any luck their kids have probably fucked off too. Leaving them better off than they have been for years.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Work Dilemma Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
Am I right in feeling hard done by? My manager (who is newer to the team than me) is really pushing me to be a part of the business and wants me to progress. I love my job and am thankful for it, do i risk upsetting the balance by asking for a grade rise or do i just carry on as normal and look for internal openings to progress?


I am uncertain what you mean by "Am I right in feeling hard done by?", but I assume you're doing more work for the same money as others.

How is "pushing you to be a part of the business and wants me to progress" different from "look for internal openings to progress"? I don't understand that bit.

Talk to your manager when you can get a suitable private moment (when he's not flat out).

I would not be inclined to say anything like "Have you seen how much more I do than them", because it should be obvious to anyone looking at your sheet, which they should be doing. Just "I've been working hard" or something if it needs to be said. If you are comfortable working at the rate you're working at, and are turning out good work, keep doing it, but if there is an opening (as I say, I don't understand what you said), take it, or you'll be "that chap who works hard but wants to stay where he is".

Perhaps you can re-phrase or elucidate.
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Work Dilemma Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
My manager (who is newer to the team than me) is really pushing me to be a part of the business and wants me to progress. I love my job and am thankful for it, do i risk upsetting the balance by asking for a grade rise or do i just carry on as normal and look for internal openings to progress?


Do you think the new manager is any good?

Stop to consider that you might be average and everyone else is just shit. Old manager might have been happy with shit. New manager might think wow I've got some shit here except Ash,must keep Ash as he's only one that's not shit rather than your version of you're great and he'll never find another one like you.

If you think you're all that and you can trust him, then help him bust more work out of the duds and climb that greasy pole.

If you're just average, then expect to be working your ass off same as everyone else when the new manager gets the people he wants in.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chances are the old hands were like you once. After a succession of pushy managers parroting "personal development" and "career progression" it's dawned on the old hands that it's all a con designed to squeeze the last drop out of you, with ultimately a disappointing return.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on your boss.

You work more if you *will* get recognition for it. If there is little to no chance of actual, tangible progression/raises? no, why do more for the same pay?

All bosses will tell you there's progression, raise etc in the future, but it's ultimately down to you to decide if there actually is.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Work Dilemma Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:



Me personally I would try move upwards in the company and use this extra effort as evidence of your competence when your boss/manager says why should you get a promotion or move to a different department?

This is good because it's not you calling them slow/lazy the figures will say it themselves and if he has any nous it'll get caught in the internal audit and or appraisals.


In reality the opposite is almost universally true. His immediate Boss will do anything in his power to prevent his good work getting noticed further up because it makes him look like he's doing a great managerial job despite having a department of mostly lazy sods. All the lazy sods are happy because 1) someone is carrying their load for them and 2) their seniority probably means they are getting paid a higher rate for doing less. Happy days!

Right now everyone but Ash is happy because his 250% of average output is making all their lives easy but as soon as he shows any sign of discontent they'll club together and make him out to be a troublemaker, and they'll have the manager's backing.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are selling yourself short, why do more work than everyone else for the same pay?

I retired by choice aged 52 because there's more to life than working.
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pompousporcup...
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PostPosted: 07:48 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Work Dilemma Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Itchy wrote:



Me personally I would try move upwards in the company and use this extra effort as evidence of your competence when your boss/manager says why should you get a promotion or move to a different department?

This is good because it's not you calling them slow/lazy the figures will say it themselves and if he has any nous it'll get caught in the internal audit and or appraisals.


In reality the opposite is almost universally true. His immediate Boss will do anything in his power to prevent his good work getting noticed further up because it makes him look like he's doing a great managerial job despite having a department of mostly lazy sods. All the lazy sods are happy because 1) someone is carrying their load for them and 2) their seniority probably means they are getting paid a higher rate for doing less. Happy days!

Right now everyone but Ash is happy because his 250% of average output is making all their lives easy but as soon as he shows any sign of discontent they'll club together and make him out to be a troublemaker, and they'll have the manager's backing.


this is pretty much my understanding of the way it works. Unless you are superfkingexcellent and have engineered it so they really do NEED you, blend in.. its easier than fighting a bunch of whiny old blokes
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Fourte
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been there and have the T-shirt.

Worked in warehousing and started on the loading bays. Made my way up into middle management. It stopped there - let me tell you why..

I'm good. I'm bloody good. Just like you I spotted not so much useless people doing the same job but they seemed to be purposely slower and it didn't make sense. They did a boring job (boring for me too), got paid, drank ale and returned on Monday for the same again. It wasn't for me.

Managers saw my potential. They also knew I'd left school with a shit ton of good qualifications. I took that job because there was nothing else up this way (North East in the early 1980s).
I was moved by other managers into different departments. It wasn't so obvious then but they were giving me a feel of, an understanding of, the various departments connected to the main warehouse. I did them all and learnt the ins and outs. I took on the knowledge and excelled.
I was also a problem though - those managers began to realise I was clever too. Call it a kind of street sense in that manufacturing/warehouse unit. I was learning things yes but I was also seeing where those managers were failing - failings that they'd not managed properly and were slowing production/output down. Sure things got done but they were like bottlenecks that affected everything.
Managers began plotting a way to control me. I could literally show them up. I would be able to tell higher up managers (offsite and in London) about just how shitty some unit managers actually were..

I'd progressed through the whole unit now. It took 6 1/2 years. Started on the loading bays, recognised as talented and seen as the golden boy who could help the unit overall. Our unit was to expand. We had limited space on site for this and so began renting a unit 10 miles from the main site. I was seen as absolutely perfect for the job of managing the offsite operation. A pay rise given, forms signed and bang - off I went and in charge of 18 staff and £42 million of assets. Sounds good doesn't it? Nope!
Managers at the main site had seen me as a threat to them. That team knew I was outspoken and would take no sh*t. Our London managers had seen my records and wanted me to under manage and finally in a few years manage the main site. I would be stepping over the current management team. I would become too powerful for them and by controlling my career progression and placement they knew they could also control and limit my connection with London and the directors. Examples being if a director was up for the day at our main unit I would be kept away. Pointless tasks be given or be not informed. They also began excluding me from meetings with supervisors and important decisions.
It was constructive dismissal.

I'll explain what happened. I lasted for another 3 years. Walls and barriers had been placed around me. Local main site managers did everything they could because I was a threat to them and their failings. My wages by then were low for what work I did. I was underpaid and restricted. To be honest I was also bored.
I resigned. I didn't just walk - I made plans for my future. I retrained and became self employed - a total change of career.
Auditing firms who we would employ heard of my leaving. A director from one traveled to the North East uninvited and walked into my offsite unit just before my leaving - he offered me a job there and then. He wanted me to manage auditing work they did for the north of the UK - Leeds to the tip of Scotland. The job was easy, the hours low and the pay bloody awesome but I declined. I'd had enough of that work and wanted out.

OK OK I offloaded a story there. I apologise but had to offload. I expect some sh*t from members but somewhere within that you'll see some downfalls. In particular to be wary of those career 'upgrades'. It works for some folk but for me it didn't - I became a threat.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been in your current role for about a year? So you'll be due an appraisal soon?

That would seem to be the place to raise this issue. That said, given your managers comment about progression, you might not have to.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input guys/girls...

I think im going to bring it up with my manager in the next review (as like stinkwheel said) which will be my end of year development report.

By bring it up i mean my progression. I am going to tell him my aims and aspirations, as well as present him with some facts about why I should be tracked there sooner rather than later.

I feel I should explain... it's hard to put exact figures on work output, there are no charts which say who's done what or how... the list just gets filled and emptied over time (i have ways i can check others task completion times but i dont think the managers even check or bother), so i dont really know how i can show him that i am doing (a lot) more than others without explaining a bit before... thats the delicate bit.. but i think i can speak to him 'off the record' so to speak and just say that if nothing else its hurting my morale.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

In not the same position as you, I felt a bit undervalued, so applied for another job .... got offered it.

Told my Boss and he said to name my price. I did, and he paid. A year on, or so, I should have moved. My boss is a decent guy, the company, meh. I think I stayed because my boss fought to keep me, he marched straight to the director after I told him I'd been offered a job, and I like the guy. Doesn't change the job though.

You can always try applying for other places, even if you have no intention of leaving, but if nobody else even asks you for an interview, you can have an idea of your skill level of others in the job market.
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
In not the same position as you, I felt a bit undervalued, so applied for another job .... got offered it.

Told my Boss and he said to name my price. I did, and he paid. A year on, or so, I should have moved. My boss is a decent guy, the company, meh. I think I stayed because my boss fought to keep me, he marched straight to the director after I told him I'd been offered a job, and I like the guy. Doesn't change the job though.

You can always try applying for other places, even if you have no intention of leaving, but if nobody else even asks you for an interview, you can have an idea of your skill level of others in the job market.


NEVER take a counter offer.

You invariably realise it was about more than the money and then want to move on anyway.

If they were so willing to let you name your price when you threatened to leave, then why were you not worth that before then? I'f you have to push that hard for a raise, they dont respect you, so hold your head high and walk.
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owl
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:


NEVER take a counter offer.

You invariably realise it was about more than the money and then want to move on anyway.

If they were so willing to let you name your price when you threatened to leave, then why were you not worth that before then? I'f you have to push that hard for a raise, they dont respect you, so hold your head high and walk.


This, plus it's a perfect excuse for them to dump even more work on you, when you were likely doing more than was required to begin with.
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fatjames
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try and give the blackjack analogy with this (although, it's not strickly true if you know the game)..

It's you against the dealer, what the other players do is of no concern to you.

If one of the other members of the team did even less work than they currently do and you carry on doing the same, would you feel even more hard done by?
Or on the flip side, if someone really upped their game, would feel bad for not doing enough if your output was the same?

Is there always work to do?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 19 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:


I think im going to bring it up with my manager in the next review (as like stinkwheel said) which will be my end of year development report.

By bring it up i mean my progression. I am going to tell him my aims and aspirations, as well as present him with some facts about why I should be tracked there sooner rather than later.

I feel I should explain... it's hard to put exact figures on work output, there are no charts which say who's done what or how... the list just gets filled and emptied over time (i have ways i can check others task completion times but i dont think the managers even check or bother), so i dont really know how i can show him that i am doing (a lot) more than others without explaining a bit before... thats the delicate bit.. but i think i can speak to him 'off the record' so to speak and just say that if nothing else its hurting my morale.


So, basically do some arselicking. Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 19 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
AshWebster wrote:


I think im going to bring it up with my manager in the next review (as like stinkwheel said) which will be my end of year development report.

By bring it up i mean my progression. I am going to tell him my aims and aspirations, as well as present him with some facts about why I should be tracked there sooner rather than later.

I feel I should explain... it's hard to put exact figures on work output, there are no charts which say who's done what or how... the list just gets filled and emptied over time (i have ways i can check others task completion times but i dont think the managers even check or bother), so i dont really know how i can show him that i am doing (a lot) more than others without explaining a bit before... thats the delicate bit.. but i think i can speak to him 'off the record' so to speak and just say that if nothing else its hurting my morale.


So, basically do some arselicking. Laughing


And get accustomed to the taste of unwashed nob.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:
DrSnoosnoo wrote:
In not the same position as you, I felt a bit undervalued, so applied for another job .... got offered it.

Told my Boss and he said to name my price. I did, and he paid. A year on, or so, I should have moved. My boss is a decent guy, the company, meh. I think I stayed because my boss fought to keep me, he marched straight to the director after I told him I'd been offered a job, and I like the guy. Doesn't change the job though.

You can always try applying for other places, even if you have no intention of leaving, but if nobody else even asks you for an interview, you can have an idea of your skill level of others in the job market.


NEVER take a counter offer.

You invariably realise it was about more than the money and then want to move on anyway.

If they were so willing to let you name your price when you threatened to leave, then why were you not worth that before then? I'f you have to push that hard for a raise, they dont respect you, so hold your head high and walk.


Very much this. Lad at our place left a couple of months ago, after the annual review he said he felt undervalued and wanted a bit extra in light of the work he does (between me and him, we could cover almost all bases within the company).

They turned him down, he looked elsewhere. Got offered the job, told them, they instantly offered him a not mediocre raise, but he'd seen exactly what you said, that they should have offered him that anyway. He bailed and is loving his new job.

I'll be considering the same action plan next year, I didn't get a review as I'd had half a year away with my job kept open and still paid, albeit not full wage. Come back, and the place is stacking family members up, where it's getting to the point that they can't be held accountable, because family.

Getting my Christmas bonus/potential year end bonus/considering my pay review for next year beforehand though. Laughing
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