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Speedfight 2 - 50cc - Belt Issues

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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 04 Oct 2018    Post subject: Speedfight 2 - 50cc - Belt Issues Reply with quote

My son has just taken on his brother's Speedfight 2, and seems to be having a problem with the belts shredding. He is losing patience with it now, so it has come down to me to sort it. I'm no moped mechanic, so bear with me if the terms aren't right. Also, it has been subject to all sorts of 'alterations' over the years by his brother, so almost nothing will be standard.

I decided to go back to basics and have got some new (Pollini 7g) weights to fit and a new belt as well. It looks like the rear pulleys aren't running that true, so I was going to try straightening them out a bit whilst I was in there.

However, from the look of it, it seems that the belt is rubbing on part of the belt cover casing (there is a low point, more or less above the middle of the kick start 'cog') which leads me to think that the front pulley is pushing the belt out too far, rubbing on the cover, heating it up and then eventually giving up.

Does this sound about right so far ?

Any advice from me to not drive it to the max at all times falls on deaf ears, so is there any other solution to making it not go out so far, or anything that could alleviate the problem ?
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 04 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not experienced with that bike but are the pulleys standard? From your description (images help massively) it sounds like its got an
aftermarket pulley(s) on it or they've been put back on incorrectly?
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 04 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a quick search I found this if it helps:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1215202/Peugeot-Speedfight-2.html

(I hope linking to manuals is allowed?)
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 04 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Speedfight 2 - 50cc - Belt Issues Reply with quote

johnny_t1970 wrote:
almost nothing will be standard.

I decided to go back to basics and have got some new (Pollini 7g) weights to fit and a new belt as well. It looks like the rear pulleys aren't running that true, so I was going to try straightening them out a bit whilst I was in there.

However, from the look of it, it seems that the belt is rubbing on part of the belt cover casing (there is a low point, more or less above the middle of the kick start 'cog') which leads me to think that the front pulley is pushing the belt out too far, rubbing on the cover, heating it up and then eventually giving up.


It should be able to take being ridden flat-out all the time.

If the belt's rubbing on something, there is a problem.

Is the variator (the "front pulley") original? I can't think why anyone would change it, but... also, is it put together properly (refer to the manual pointed out)?

Is the clutch original (ditto)?

If the starter mechanism put together properly and not somehow deflecting the belt?

Is the belt the right one (not wider than original)?

Is the belt drive casing correct?

I can't really think of anything else, unless it's something outrageous like "wrong crankshaft fitted".


Photos?
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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks All,

Actually, it may not be as unoriginal as I implied. Pulleys etc. are all still original and it's just springs and rollers that get changed. My older son ran about on it for over a year without any issue with the belts, but then it snapped once for the next son, replaced it and it went again maybe six weeks later, but now they are just going towards the end of any 10 mile + ride. As said, I'm going to restart from scratch, but it's hard to see what could have been put together wrongly.

A couple of pictures below in its current state. The inside of the cover doesn't fully show it, but that part is definitely looking polished.

[img]https://thumb.ibb.co/hsPL4K/20181004_180859.jpg https://thumb.ibb.co/b4dPWz/20181005_073622.jpg https://thumb.ibb.co/cPtDPK/20181005_073631.jpg https://thumb.ibb.co/mXZWBz/20181005_073655.jpg
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must be something seriously off for causing such damage in so few miles.

If the pulleys are standard, weights too, then I reckon that belt is slipping far too much and generating a lot of heat which is killing the rubber in the belt.

The belts are genuine parts? Rubbishy rubber would fail in no time.

I think the worn part to the casing is from pieces of fabric cleaning it as the belt degrades.

Edit: 2nd pic from the right. Are those belt surfaces on the pulleys not supposed to be flat? From the look of how light is reflecting I think the surface has become worn away in places (stepped).
You need to check the surfaces of the pulleys to see if that's within tolerance.
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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourte wrote:
Must be something seriously off for causing such damage in so few miles.

If the pulleys are standard, weights too, then I reckon that belt is slipping far too much and generating a lot of heat which is killing the rubber in the belt.

The belts are genuine parts? Rubbishy rubber would fail in no time.

I think the worn part to the casing is from pieces of fabric cleaning it as the belt degrades.

Edit: 2nd pic from the right. Are those belt surfaces on the pulleys not supposed to be flat? From the look of how light is reflecting I think the surface has become worn away in places (stepped).
You need to check the surfaces of the pulleys to see if that's within tolerance.


Thanks,

I'm going to have another at stripping it down and then putting it back together again myself and see what it does.

With regards to the front pulley, it isn't stepped as such, but it does definitely seem to flatten out for the last few mm before the edges, as opposed to this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-Speedfight-2-50cc-liquid-cooled-Variator-variable-pulley-assembly/253875755958?hash=item3b1c2c9bb6:g:CI0AAOSwBfRbAFiC - which seems to just go in a straight line.

One other thing with the variator - The pulley itself comes off quite nicely, but the backplate seems quite tight on the crankshaft. All the online videos seem to have it just sliding off. I don't think that would be an issue, but just throwing it into the mix
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, meant to comment earlier:

Are you SURE it's the right belt (length/width/thickness)? It looks as though it's been going around sideways and ripped the "teeth" (which aren't) off. Is the belt directional, and is it fitted in the right direction?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnny_t1970 wrote:
With regards to the front pulley, it isn't stepped as such, but it does definitely seem to flatten out for the last few mm before the edges

One other thing with the variator - The pulley itself comes off quite nicely, but the backplate seems quite tight on the crankshaft. All the online videos seem to have it just sliding off. I don't think that would be an issue, but just throwing it into the mix


The inner drive pulley should be an easy sliding fit. The backplate IIRC is fixed in position by pressing up against a shoulder on the crankshaft. The belt shouldn't reach the outer periphery of it. FWIW the manual (again IIRC) specifies that the rollers should be replaced ends facing one way, although I can't see that wrecking the belt like that.
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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Sorry, meant to comment earlier:

Are you SURE it's the right belt (length/width/thickness)? It looks as though it's been going around sideways and ripped the "teeth" (which aren't) off. Is the belt directional, and is it fitted in the right direction?


eBay told me it was the right part, which I appreciate isn't quite the same thing Smile It's a SRCV-17.5-765, if there is anywhere I can look up what it should be ?

How would I tell if it was directional ? If there would be something obvious, like a big arrow, then there isn't one.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnny_t1970 wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Sorry, meant to comment earlier:

Are you SURE it's the right belt (length/width/thickness)? It looks as though it's been going around sideways and ripped the "teeth" (which aren't) off. Is the belt directional, and is it fitted in the right direction?


eBay told me it was the right part, which I appreciate isn't quite the same thing Smile It's a SRCV-17.5-765, if there is anywhere I can look up what it should be ?

How would I tell if it was directional ? If there would be something obvious, like a big arrow, then there isn't one.


Three Cross are the importers I think. Look at:

https://www.3xmotorcycles-superstore.com/cms/cms.jsp?menu_id=3256&category=PEPSF2

I've found them quite helpful (for other stuff).
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the engine designation number? Probably on a vertically flat bit of the crankcase just below and to the front of the drive belt cover? "QMB..."?
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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 05 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
What's the engine designation number? Probably on a vertically flat bit of the crankcase just below and to the front of the drive belt cover? "QMB..."?


Nothing obvious, but I might just need to dig a bit harder...
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

may sound daft but what belt make is it

genuine parts always fit and last longer then any aftermarket


pollini and mallossi are some of the worst I have encountered
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should last longer that 10 miles! Looks as though it's been going around sideways. Too long?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Andy on the naffness or unsuitability of many after market parts.

My 100cc speedfight I had, broke std drive belts by 2000km, but this was after fitting a Malossi variatior. It was supposed to be an improvement and upgrade, but having seen the quality other casting and machining I'm not so sure.

The Polini Kevlar belt I had first was too wide and too stiff, so it didn't allow the full range of gearing and ruined acceleration too.

If tuning another twist and go scooter I'd leave the OEM transmission parts fitted as long as possible. Changing roller weights and clutch springs is enough for most bolt on parts,

And for big bore or stroker kits a gear up kit is far more important than a fancy variatior.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
The Polini Kevlar belt I had first was too wide and too stiff, so it didn't allow the full range of gearing and ruined acceleration too


From experience, merely fitting a replacement belt is detrimental to performance for a few dozen miles.
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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Should last longer that 10 miles! Looks as though it's been going around sideways. Too long?


That's a couple of people have mention going round sideways now, but I can't quite picture what you mean by it...

The current belts are from Tecnium, but I am leaning towards them maybe being too long (I bought two, one of which is now in bits, and one of which I am yet to refit). Am going to check, double and and triple check and maybe buy another. I'm in a slight catch-22, in that I don't want to spend out too much on belts, if something else is the issue, but of course, if I go too cheap then I am causing another issue altogether.

In theory, is there anything obviously dicey about using something like this - https://www.pedparts.co.uk/product/1255/motoforce-racing-kevlar-peugeot-drive-belt ?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.pedparts.co.uk/product/1255/motoforce-racing-kevlar-peugeot-drive-belt

That says 17.8mm x 8.3mm x 764mm. Your eBay belt was SRCV-17.5-765, so very near the same length.

I don't think a couple of millimetres will make a noticable differences. A quick look on t' net shows that's probably the correct length for the bike; if for instance it was should have 724 mm and a 765 were fitted, that might be a problem! But it's likely to be something else I guess.

The belt should go flat with "teeth" inwards, so by "sideways" I meant on edge (twisted) in the pulley (e.g. if it was too long). But hm. Some bloke from 49ccscoot.com says he's had cheap belts break in 10 miles

I can't find your "SRCV-17.5-765" belt so maybe it's an "unusual" one. I can't think Pedparts would sell utter crap.
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u33db
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a new belt from pedparts - motoforce, malossi, dayco or any other "known" brand.

As said the belt in your pics has no teeth/v section to it so its literally that - a flat belt that which will not sit properly when sandwiched in the V that 2 sections of a pulley will make, and will not turn them without flapping about causing more damage.

In short the belt you've pictured is blatantly either wrong, or destroyed or both.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

u33db wrote:
In short the belt you've pictured is blatantly either wrong, or destroyed or both.


Its "teeth" have come off and fallen out upon the ground....
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johnny_t1970
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 21 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input, everyone. Just a quick update.

After another belt change (to a spare Tecnium one we had), we noticed on a couple of short runs that the transmission cover was running absolutely red hot. Untouchably hot. Once the bike went on a slightly longer run then it got to about the magic ten mile mark and once more everything went to pot.

In a bid to go back to basics, I changed the whole clutch assembly (everything but the bell) and now things seem to be running just pleasantly warm. We've had a couple of longer test runs and, fingers crossed, we may just be OK.

My best guess at this stage is that after the first belt went (which could have just been age-related) then there was enough bits of crap floating about to make for a high-friction situation that was just melting the cheap belts.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 21 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why you should buy a proper bike rather than a vag flapper.
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