Bike Not Starting - Clicking Noise

[ajordan9]

Hey all,

So really need help on this one with my 1983 Honda CB125 TD.

Here is a link to a video which demonstrates the issue: https://youtu.be/rJmiqzUkbiY

It might be a common thing but I keep getting different answers when searching online and they're old posts so would be good to have a thread to read comments and bounce back ideas and solutions.

So as the video shows the engine doesnt start up and in its place we have this lovely click noise.

I have replaced the battery (with a fully charged, ready to go battery). I double checked everything was connected up to the battery.

I have now removed the starter motor which appeared to be making the clicking noise but haven't done anything with it cause I have no idea what I would do with it.

Anything ideas to get the ball rolling would be greatly apprecited.


Thanks!

[jaffa90]

Is the starter motor shaft free to turn?
If so it may just need new carbon brushes.

[Teflon-Mike]

It Still shouldn't be blue.... howebler...
I can't hear the click, or lack of 'cos this PC has no sound.

You say battery ready charged? On that my synasism is hight.
You buy batteries Dry-Charged.... they have no acid in them, they need filling and letting to settle before use; they also usually need charging 'properly' as the amount of dry or surface charge is normally pretty small... might spin over a good motor if you have just took out a duff battery, but if the battery was duff 'cos motor and charging system weak, then that surface charge wont... and even if filled first, the fault that killed old battery will still be there and the engine probably wont put much charge in the new battery, especially at tick over... make sure battery us filled, make sure its charged, properly, over-night on a bench-charger, and check acid levels when done.

I saw you prodding starter solenoid in vid.... usually pretty reliable these click when you press starter button; hold finger on side to feel it throw the contactor plate.

They are wonderful bits of old fashioned electrical engineering, with a BIG brass plate that gets moved between contacts by the electro-magnet. And they are held together with screws.... you can take these apart and rebuild them, and you will likely find that the contactor plate is furry as heck, and likely pitted where it contacts... but its thick enough and has enough metal in it that you can clean it and flatten it with a file! do similar on the contacts, and should be good when you put it badk together, soaking the bowl in, one of the few legitimate places to use WD40 'water dispersant' to keep it lubed and water-free.

Moving down the line..... the starter motors on these tend to lead hard lives.... it was one of the novelties of the bike when new.... Again, very belt and braces engineering, remove starter, strip, clean, thoroughly. The epicyclic geapack on the end is probably full of gunk and old grease, loaded with the dust of the worn out motor-brushes. The brushes are still listed and available at DSS. Replace them. As they wear the old carbon builds up and they springs that hold them against comutator ring get weak; BUT more significantly, the effin high current the motor draws as it gets tired, makes the braided wired into the carbon contact go thin, and high resistance, making them draw more current and do less work.

Clean the comutator ring. Again, good thick coppa you can almost get them back to bright metal and 'flat' where they will undoubtedly be ridged, with a flat-file.

Re-Assemble.... BUT... be in no hurry to get going... use flat file again on the mount lugs and the mating surface of engine cases to ensure a good earth.

You need a good earth path for the starter motor, its the highest current component in the entire electrical system. Normal earth path is through those starter motor mounts, into the engine, from there into the frame through the engine mountings, from there back to battery....

HINT: second earth strap from starter motor mount bolt (Top of) direct to the battery negative, or to the common bolt for battery neg strap, can work wonders, not just for the starter, but ignition and rest of electrics.

Lots of corrosion can build up on the variouse contacts between engine and framemounts and earth bolts, this can make life a lot easier, especially if engine and or frame have been painted and the paint is insulating earth paths where terminals should be.

Oh-Kay... drop the mag cover...... you have removed starter, so the starter sprocket will likely have dropped off the end with the chain.... chain from starter sprocket to the back of the generator rotor... back of rotor, sprocket for starter has a one-way roller clutch in it with three rollers that are notorioise for stickling... whne they do, you can oft hear starter solenoid click, even starter motor whirr... but dont turn engine over.... and or the motor will catch, but then the clutch wont release and you get a gawdawful screech whilst crank turns starter....

The starter clutch is a right royal; pita.... full fix/over-haul is to follow Haynes instructions to pull the rotor... think it's an M12 bolt that's used as 'puller'... but they DONT like to come off.... I usually end up down local freindly mahine shop for them to use a 2-ton press on the dang things! But, rotor off, starter clutch drops off the shaft, you clean them, you clean the shaft, you clean the ramps they run on, grease and rebuild, and lo! no more screaching, and starter hooks up every time... almost!

The semi-temprary ways about is to squib as much squirty oil down there as yo9u dare, and by hand, keep working the clutch back and forth... maybe giving it a good wack with a rubber mallet at tight points to free it a bit... then put it all back together... spending time to make sure that the starter chain is properly lubes and running true. May still shreek from time to time.... but not as bad.

BUT thats the starter 'system# over hauled.... and this should be done.

Its rare that one component is solely to blame for a fault, they all conspire... goes sort of like this:-

Starter gets used, brushes rub on comultator, make dust. Dust gets into gear pack and make it a bit gloopy; but at the same time coat comutator, and short windings. Now windings not powered by brushes can start to suck electric through the carbon-dust; the exctra windings put into the circuit, draw even more current than motor normally would, plus the magnetic field they create competes with the ones that should be 'on' and the motor starts to get lazy as well as draw more current; that current makes the brush-braids 'thin'... that adds more resistance, now the solenoid sees a higher than it should current, and more likely to 'arc' when the plate is close but not quite in contact, making oxide layer and pits so that theres not as much metal to metal contact as there should be, and more current draw and more watage.... this gives the mattery a harder time; starter is getting lazy, so it dont spin up as readily, when it does its drawing more current, so battery has to deliver more electric and for longer, and battery gets killed quicker...

Change battery.... problem seems to go away for a while.... but thats the symptom not the cause.... so the solenoid gets swapped, or cleaned; again, problem seems to go away a while, but another symptom... eventually the starter motor may get over hauled or replaced... but its still only one link in the chain.... and its only temperary fix and shifts ths strain onto other links.

HENCE, you start at one end, work through the LOT, and be damned... its not all that expensive, but is fiddly and time consuming... but once done..... these things tens to spin up wonderfully, and batteries 'last'... and makes fasult finding other starting problems, like weak sparks, crap compression or dodgy chokes and flauats a HECK of a lot less hassle, having eliminated prime cause of poor starting....

HINT: when fault finding other problems like cranky chokes and dodgy sparks; use another battery! Preferably a car battery on jump-leads, so you have the electric in it for repeated e-starts, plus you dont 'kill' the standard diddy battery with repetitive and prolonged e-start prodding.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[ajordan9]

Hey guys,

So I actually managed to sort this originally by replacing battery, starter solenoid and sparks in just one swift go and it worked. However now nearly 3 weeks later the issue has arisen again which makes me think its the actual starter motor. There is a pronounced click, lights/horns work but doesn't turn over and theres no spark at the plugs.

I can't actually fully confirm where the start motor is located and the easiest way to get to it. Ideally I would love if Telflon could let me know as I think you have one of these bikes? Otherwise anyone else could just advise. I want to remove it and have a look at it.

Thanks,

[Pete.]

Check the battery voltage it sounds like it's under-charging.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[ajordan9]

[jaffa90]

What voltage reading have you (red)probing the starter solenoid switch and (black)probing the bike frame + engine?

[RhynoCZ]

Clean the starter button and the kill switch if there is any. Then if still nothing, try to bypass the starter solenoid. Just connect both of the terminals with something metal and insulated, a screw driver works well enough. If still nothing, then you have a real problem = the starter and/or ground issues.

If you don't feel alright bypassing the solenoid (sparks, risk of electrocution), just use a new one (or ask a mate to lend you his for a minute). I once had the same issue and all it took to fix it, was to remove the solenoid and clean the contacts, that was all.

By the way, do you have an immobiliser fitted? That would/could also cause this.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Teflon-Mike]