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Very stubborn front wheel bearing

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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Very stubborn front wheel bearing Reply with quote

Hi, I would appreciate some tips on how to remove a front wheel bearing. It's a standard arrangement: 2 enclosed (sealed) bearings are on either side of my front wheel. I have to knock the right one out before the spacer between the 2 bearings will come out, and allow easy access to the left one (the left one will be easy). Haynes says, knock the right one out using a suitable punch. I find this easier said than done.

The right bearing is really, really tight. I spent all of last Sunday trying to knock it out using a 12mm-ended Wilko hand chisel (which got rounded off on both ends). I also heated and bent the end of a flat screwdriver and hammered on it. It was no good at all. I can get a certain amount of purchase on the 'lip' of the inner bearing race using my makeshift punches, but not enough force down on them to shift the bearing out.

Can anyone suggest a way to get it out? I was thinking of something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-3-Jaw-Heavy-Duty-Inner-Bearing-Puller-Equipment-Hole-Bearing-Pull-Maintenance/122513556599?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3Dec14f4a30f6e46c0955fb7442442b9ec%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D122513556599&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

but I don't know if it will fit down the tiny inner race (which is about 13mm in diameter). Thanks in advance for any tips.
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Very stubborn front wheel bearing Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:

The right bearing is really, really tight. I spent all of last Sunday trying to knock it out using a 12mm-ended Wilko hand chisel (which got rounded off on both ends).


Remove seal (if there is one), scrape off crud and corrosion from
around the bearing. Make absolutely sure there isn't a circlip/snap-ring
fitted outside the bearing.

Heat the hub with a hot air gun and drift the bearing out with a
large diameter pin-punch and a heavy hammer. A screwdriver
won't be up to the job. Support the hub underneath with blocks
of timber.

I have encountered a few tough ones, but the method above
always shifted them in the end.



Quote:
Can anyone suggest a way to get it out? I was thinking of something like this:


That puller from eBay looks like a pile of shite. A slide-hammer
type of blind bearing puller should shift it, but they are more
expensive.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, that inner race/bearing puller could put more pressure on the outer race, also as said, you may have to apply more heat to the hub and use the shock treatment.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 01:29 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, what bike may help.

Next, the center spacert tube, may need to be bunted sideways in an exact orientation to actually get clerance in the opposite outer race.. if you dont luck in on that exact spot, on siome hubs you can be hammering away for ever and a day on the bearing seat in the hub, not the effin bearing... fact you say that drift has peened hopefully suggests you have been bashing it against hardned steel not alloy... b-u-t.....

I dont really like 'pulling' bearings from the inner race , and its needs must to do so. Bashing it out from the inside on the outer race, is by far the 'preffered' ways about, and often it's just a case of finding that rubics-cube puzzle way to line up the center spacer tube to give the gap for the drift to do so... and patience and perseverance to do so....

Tea.. lots and lots of tea.....

Puller shown in e-bay add actually looks like it might be quite useful... for something..... but not in all likelihood a motorbike wheel bearing!

As has been suggested the 'better' tool here would be an internal-diameter claw on a slide hammer.... the claws are small enough and slim enough to go down the hole on small bearings.

The cheap-ish ones on e-bay are, cheap-ish ones on e-bay, and err... well, they aren't entirely useless, but compared to a decent one from a reputable they aren't much cop.. and if you have ever been loaned a Snap-On offering, you know why folk dont like loaning them.... you wont want to give it back, they can be a shear joy to use after cheapo e-bay specials.... but they IS cheap.

One we bought off the bay wasn't 'so' cheap, and deemed a worthy buy as it was too far to go to my old workshop for the borrow, when we were doing Snowie's bludi-guzzi gearbox..... They 'can' work adequately.... but the machining was a joke on our example, and the metal quality even more so! Tool-Hard steel should not be brittle, it should be hard! I had to put a fine diamond dremel disc on a couple of the claws to dress them up as manufacturer hadn't and one, after much swearing on a particularly stubborn bearing just cracked.. not good.... B-U-T, cost less than taking it down local M/C shop to stick under a press, or the 2 gallon of petrol needed for 2 round trips to get a borrow... it did the job.

Thing is, that trying to pull the old bearing out by the inner race; whatever force you need to apply has to go first through the puller claw, which can have peculiarly small 'grip' area, so even when done up effoff tight, it can still pull out under the sort of force needed to pull the whole bearing; then force has to be transmitted through the balls into the outer race... and why would you be trying to take it out? Yup cos the balls and races worn, so they is no longer all that 'tight'.. so even if the puller claw dont 'give' on you, you can end up pulling the inner race out, getting a shower of balls.. and still being left with stubborn outer to try tackle.... and back to the old fashioned drift and hammer, though hopefully with a bit more space to see the hole for you to hammer through!

Best of British with it!... but have a good shuftie at how the bearing spacer tube might alternatively be slid asside, before applying too much brute force and expletives!
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 04:08 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Very stubborn front wheel bearing Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
Hi, I would appreciate some tips on how to remove a front wheel bearing. It's a standard arrangement: 2 enclosed (sealed) bearings are on either side of my front wheel. I have to knock the right one out before the spacer between the 2 bearings will come out, and allow easy access to the left one (the left one will be easy). Haynes says, knock the right one out using a suitable punch. I find this easier said than done.

The right bearing is really, really tight. I spent all of last Sunday trying to knock it out using a 12mm-ended Wilko hand chisel (which got rounded off on both ends). I also heated and bent the end of a flat screwdriver and hammered on it. It was no good at all. I can get a certain amount of purchase on the 'lip' of the inner bearing race using my makeshift punches, but not enough force down on them to shift the bearing out.

Can anyone suggest a way to get it out? I was thinking of something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-3-Jaw-Heavy-Duty-Inner-Bearing-Puller-Equipment-Hole-Bearing-Pull-Maintenance/122513556599?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3Dec14f4a30f6e46c0955fb7442442b9ec%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D122513556599&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

but I don't know if it will fit down the tiny inner race (which is about 13mm in diameter). Thanks in advance for any tips.


That little puller is excellent. I used it to yank out a thoroughly seized in bearing on my reliant after a very expensive slide hammer tyle puller had resoundingly failed to get it out.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will second the suggestion of application of heat with a hot air gun - not blowtorch or anything like that, a hot air gun, as sold for removing wallpaper and the like.

I've pulled dozens of bearings from blind holes with slide hammers, and even when it seems like you've got a decent grip of the bearing, it often won't shift without a bunch of heat.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Very stubborn front wheel bearing Reply with quote

Confusion wrote:
heavy hammer


This is important. At the very least, use a 2lb hammer and really hit it.

I have these chisels at work, which had seen some real hard use and the only damage to them over two years is scraping the paint off.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Really helpful. Just so you know, it's a 1997 Yamaha XJ600N.

So, the bearing puller from China might work really well, but then again it might not work. The doubt is regarding whether the three prongs would fit down that 13mm hole, and be able to bite into the little space (barely a mm) I'm able to create between the spacer and the stuck bearing.

On the other hand, the hot air gun suggestion seems good. I already have one of those. My hammer is on the light side and perhaps just 350mm long, so I could upgrade and see it that makes a difference. The trouble I had wasn't so much that the hammer wasn't beefy enough but that my drift/punch (which was that Wilko hand-chisel and then various other things) couldn't get enough of a grip on that lip/ledge between spacer and bearing. I'm sure I would have eventually got it moving if my drift/punch didn't slip off that lip every time I touched it with the hammer.

So, for now I would like to give it another bash, with a heavier hammer, and put that tripod tool on hold for the time being. But can anyone recommend a really good and strong punch of sufficient length which won't round off or flex (either of which would cause it to slip off from the lip)?
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: bearings Reply with quote

You do not say what bike it is, unless that bit of info is very well hidden.

You do realise that some bike wheel bearings are held in via circlips, are yours ??

You now know of cmsnl for the exploded views that will show stuff like what type of valve clearance adjustment method is used and if the wheel bearings are held in via circlips etc.....its free.

You are replacing the wheel bearing cos they are fucked, right??

So it don't matter if you fuck them some more, but not the wheel etc. right !

You have access to a mig welder ?

If so weld a small plate across the inner race "hole" and use that as a striking plate to punch or drift the bearing out from the other side. DONT use the oe spindle as you need that.

The wheel bearing spacer tube may have a welded on "fence" inside that prevents it from coming out a particular way, meaning it will have to come out a particular way or side, so see cmsnl for clarification.

A suitable raw bolt, an expanding bolt may be useful but be careful.

Clean and lube, and some heat ( hot air rather than flame ) on the alloy ( or cold on the bearing ) may help.

Freeze your nuts off !!!!!!!!!!!! research that one.

Post some pics now so "we" can see what your up against before you go bashing in.

Patience and the right amount of force/dead hit/newtons laws is the thing, dont break/bugger the wheel.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: puller Reply with quote

Those pullers ain't gunna help that much as you need to "hit" behind the bearing, exactly where the spacer tube butts up against the inner race..........

Maybe a raw bolt, an expanding bolt, using some threaded rod and nuts/washer etc, to make a slide hammer......

Far easier to mig weld a plate to cover the spindle/axle hole and use that to hit from the inside using a rod, not the oe spindle......from the other side....but check cmsnl first
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: puller Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
Maybe a raw bolt, an expanding bolt, using some threaded rod and nuts/washer etc, to make a slide hammer....


Oh! A Rawl bolt! I hadn't thought of those. Hm, maybe I'll modify a couple I've got in the workshop somewhere to do such things!
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colink98
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: puller Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
exactly where the spacer tube butts up against the inner race..........


Had similar issue and found if i pushed said spacer tube off centre.
it gave far better contact on one side of the bearing.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only experience with a 3-arm puller was snapping one arm while trying to free the flywheel on my R1 (to get at the generator), so rightly or wrongly I'd think twice about using one again.

I had similar problems to you when removing wheel bearings. The standard advice to knock the spacer sideways didn't seem to make any sense when you observe that the spacer is butted up against both bearings, so it seems there's no room for movement, and even if there's a little you've got sweet FA area to hit on the bearing. Then there's the likelihood of driving it out more on one side than the other so it's coming out at an angle, or rather, never coming out like that.

If I was doing it again I'd start with a slide hammer with an expanding tip like Teflon Mike mentioned (after removing any circlip like Confusion said; another good tip!). It should lift the bearing just enough to allow the spacer to move sideways and then you're back to drifting it out from the other side. In fact I used the slide hammer to pull the bearing all the way out but I might have been fortunate not to pull the inner race out leaving the outer still in position. That's still just a case of drifting it out though.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I concur, a Rawl bolt (had to search Youtube to get an idea about what it does) would be my best chance at a solution. In fact that sounds like a really great idea. I don't think I'll need a heavy hammer, as, thinking about it, the issue is that the punch skims off the lip and isn't transferring the force from the hammer in the first place. A plate welded to the opposite side of the bearing would also, definitely, work, but I can't weld and this isn't the time to learn.

The spacer really is very tight between the seated bearings, so shifting it to one side is a bit of a tall order unless you have the right tools. Weighing up my options at this stage, it looks like a toss-up between buying a new 8-inch pin-punch set, or a single Rawl bolt (maybe M10 sized).
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of these - it's long enough to reach the bearing and leaves enough free length to get a decent clout on the end. The end is square and will stay on the bearing lip pretty well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000GAOAZU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use a standard 22oz ball pein hammer to drift them out and the combination of hammer and drift hasn't failed me yet.

Knock the spacer as far across as you can, get the drift on the exposed bearing and give it a good clout. Then knock the spacer across to give you access to the opposite side and repeat.

Don't forget to clean up the raised edges of any gouges you may make on the inner of the spacer with a round file or similar. Thumbs Up


Last edited by Islander on 21:30 - 15 Oct 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a cheap shower kit and used the pole that the shower head is supposed to slide up and down on for height adjustment.

Centre thingy pushed to one side and several good belts with a 2 lb lump hammer.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can confirm the rawl bolt method does work!
Still have half a dozen different sized rawl bolts in my tool box just in case!
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bladerunner
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PostPosted: 23:51 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I boil a kettle and slowly pour that around the bearing hub which usually does the trick when using a drift/screwdriver and if that doesnt work then I'll use the hot air gun on the already heated hub which has yet to fail for removing bearings
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 13 Oct 2018    Post subject: bearing Reply with quote

do you have any dead printers?? or a local skip, or just buy stuff.
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