Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


wisdom on various matters from the 2 wheeled jedi council.

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> New Bikers Goto page Previous  1, 2
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:43 - 15 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimbobjammybob wrote:


Ideally I would do that fella and its the best idea thanks but as I said in the OP that's not possible. here coming here for advice.


Don't underestimate how much other bikers enjoy kicking tyres. You could easily ask on here for someone to come with you.

I see from your profile you're Stranraer-ish. Don't buy one off an Irish bloke in the ferry car park. Not even if he offers you a free puppy to close the deal.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jimbobjammybo...
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:52 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
I think that if you are self conciouse of, and thing that being a bit on the big size 6ft and aprox 15 stone, then perhaps a multigym would be more apropriate advice not a motorbike.
a) that's not paricularly huge, its about as big as I am, and I ant exactly lardy.
b) it will make bog all odds to the practical performance of a light-weight motorbike.

Very-Oh-dear-oh.... they haven't been in the UK Brochures for a decade. They were at one point the most expensive Learner-Legal on the UK market, at a gnats under £5K, and sold 'moderately' well to older owners, conciouse of how they thought they looked, not wanting to look like they were riding a 'toy' motorcycle, cos it sed ONE-TWO-FIVE on the side...

Wonderful creation, used the four-stroke VT125 Shaddow V-Twin engine. Enormousely 'intricate' bit of engineering for the performance/power it had, bang on Euro A1 limit of 14.5bhp. Clothed in all enveloping bodywork to hide its diminutive displacement... great.... until any-one needs work on one of the things...... not 'so' bad when they are still too young to need an MOT and obviousely affluent buyer is likely to just wheel it back the dealer, and if any thing makes eye-brows budge, it would be that the bill seems "Quite Reasonable!.... compared to getting his Audi serviced..." After that, as the 2nd hand prices have fallen into the realms of more every-day motorcycles, and DIY spanner jokey, the amount of spanner twiddling just to get at things like the spark-plugs or tappets, has meand they have tended to suffer a lot of out-of-sight-out-of-mind neglect and abuse.

And at ten-yeatrs old... the anticipated sercice life of ANY 125, the potential for neglect and rot and abuse to have taken its toll and rendered one if not actual, then very close to scrap, is high. And bits for a £5K motorcycle are bits for a £5K motorcycle, they dont get any cheaper just because teh scrap value has fallen to under a grand... and they are STILL more involved and more difficult than needs be to work on, almost garenteed to need working on.

This model, has been a money pit in waiting I have constantly warned away from for the last half decade, and there's even less reason to scorn that advice now.

CBF125.... Honda's CG successor for the los-cost-commuter and CBT school. Half the price of a Very-oh, in the show-rooms. Reletively simple, rugged and not so onerouse to get at four-stroke single motor, they have, as I'm sure you are now well aware, a rather dire reputation for RUST.

ACTUALLY... now no longer a current model, this MAY make them something of a bargain to be bagged.

Most will now be old enough to have needed an MOT, that hopefully has weeded out or begged sorting out the duffers.

Tons sold to bike schools, lots of bits likely to more obviousely rust, like handle-bars will probably have been bashed and bent and if not replaced, easily sorted by easy replacement. Reletively more accessible and easy to work on air-cooled motor, and a 'scraggy' example MIGHT be procured more cheaply cos it looks like a heap, and be reletively cheaply and easily scrubbed up, and dragged out of the usual 'maintenance-overdraft' so many Learner-Legals get into, and COULD prove a quite useful every-day hack commuter for some time to come.... IF you know what you are about.

Otherwise? Much of a muchness. Oft sold becuase Honda Dealers are most numerouse in the country, schools boght tons of the things, and Honda's 'Reputation' was assumed, if not deserved, and they 'looked' reletively smart with integrated nacelle plastics, unlike more bare-bones YBR.

Either way, ANY 125 on the second hand market will have been at the tender mercy of far too frequently, "Learner" owners, prone to not knowing so well how to ride them, burning outy clutches and bending gear-levers with clumsy shifts, wearing out brakes and hammering suspension with panic braking, and then thrashing the heck out of them trying to go as fast as BlitzenBimmer on the by-pass.... before thier ideas of 'maintenance' come into play, and they either dont get any, because "What you mean its NOT like my Dad's Volvo?!" or they are killed with kindness with "Oh yes! I did an oil change every 1000 miles, and used a TORQUE wrench on the sump plug and spark plugs to be SURE they were tight enough!" Or... "What do you mean £70 for new chains and sprockets! My MAYTE! Reckons you just need knock a link out the chain with a brick and nail!" penny-pinching Botchery......

On THAT basis, when it comes to 2nd hand learner-legals, what they may have said about them new in the reviews is pretty much irrelevent, what's before you in the metal is all that matters, and condition is (almost) ALL. A knacker is a knacker.... only real question is how well disguised it might be, which, on bikes with more fancy plastic like the very-oh, is that much more likely.

125's!!!!! In general.

Its a very condensed market. Costs much the same to make a motorcycle of any capacity. Still needs two wheels, a seat, petrol tank etc, and theres as much work to make them bits and bolt themtogether... they dont care how big the hole where fire happens, happens to be. There's only a small margin to 'get away' with lower grade components, like a smaller and single disc brake, or such 'just' because its only a 65mph machine not a 165mph one.

This is what encouraged the 'Brit-Bike' makers of the 1960's to shift away from making smaller displacement 'light-weights' to concentrate on middle-weights and heavy-weights, like the 650's for the US market, where customer expectations meant that they would pay for more cc's that didn't cost the manufacturers any more to make them, but did command more $ on the sticker price. A-N-D, its interesting to note, that the Japansese manufacturers, have for the last quarter century or more, been following a similar trend, migrating the manufacture of smaller displacement models to regional 'satalite' factories, and concentrating on 'the big bikes' in Japan....

Both Yamaha and Honda have 'partnership' facilities in China, making significantly 125cc models, that have spawned an awful number of copies and clones and derivatives, frequently of rather low quality, badged and sold with who-ever's name the whole-saler wants on the tank for that batch.

This rather skews the market, which dumbells between absolute bargain basement models that sell almost entirely on price, and the aspirational 'must-have' models that sell very significantly on 'Style' and ever more on 'ideas' of performance rather than actual performance.

In use, budget bikes, tend to be bought, 'at best' by folk that are budget minded, and not prepared to may more to start with, are loath to pay anything after, on things like new tyres or chains or even oil! A-N-D, incredibly short 1000 mile service intervals, can be something of a shock to use it like a washing machine until it breaks and get another buyers, used to 'maybe' having a new set of spark plugs each year when they put the Mazda in for its annual MOT..... The more aspirational models, sold on style and ideas of speed, rarely fare any better, and bought for those qualities, owners will likely continue, more want to spend money IF they have any left after the finance payements, on monster energy stickers, matching leathers, and noisy 'go-slo' exhausts....

CONDITION IS ALL!

And 125's, thier show-room price tags pressed by buyers who dont value them as much as bigger bikes, built down to a price and hence a grade NOT so likely to be as durable to begin with, THEN having to suffer the apauling treatement of almost NEVER getting the mainteneance they need or deserve, whilst being thrashed to oblivion to try and eek every last ounce of their meagre performance from them, DONT stand the best chance of lasting well, even before the same oft numpty learner riders... wear out the clutch & bend the gear selector dogs, with less finessed gear changes, rattle the tappets loose reving the crap out of them trying to go quick, A-N-D bend the bars and dent the tank crashing them, either being a bit silly on a round-about or not spotting SMIDSY backin off the drive.....

Big-Bikes... might not have any better treatment..... BUT, they stand a better chance!

For starters, with more 'fat' on the possible sticker-price, the manufacturer can afford to make them a tad more rugged; with more space for fire in the engine, they can also more easily achieve expected performance expectations, and owners will likely be a tad less want to thrash them trying to milk every last half a horse-power.... Those owners, also AUGHT be qualified riders, and at least have some idea how to change gears a BIT more smoothly, without bashing selector levers or wearing out clutch plates. They aught also have had a bit of training and got a full licence so stand better chance of spotting SMIDSY backing off the drive, and not making bike a hood-oprnament and trying to straighten it with a scaffold pole!

All up Costs As far as all up costs go? IF you are old enough to test for a full 'A' licence, then it is very little different, depending on how you go about it.

You can buy a T&T'd ready to ride 'over' 125 for as little as £250, if you hunt. Cheapest stuff out there, is much like the 125 market, either bodged to oblivion miser-mile commuter hacks, like an old ER5, or its a thrashed into the ground 600 Super-Sport like a CBR600. B-U-T somewhere in the shaddows you can find things like old Honda CD200';s or CB Two-Fifties', Yamaha SR250's or Suzuki GN's, that can offer MUCH more comfortable 'performance' for your money, as well as have more useful life in them.

Honda CD200 Benly, for instance barely makes 15bhp and might be Learner-Legal were the hole where fire happens a little smaller! CB, GN, SR and many others dont make much more than perhaps 20bhp, less than unrestricted two-stroke 125's of old, but it's enough to more easily hold a comfy road speed on faster A-Roads and duel carriageways, and not be so paranoid about aquiring an audi Enema. Plenty biking for your money.

If you MUST have a 125, because on 'L's or A1 licence... then what you might get your hands on for £250 PROBABLY wont have a ticket. It will likely be a 'project', and good chance it will be shown to you in a selection of card-board grocery boxes!

£500, 'might' just eek you a whoile running motorcycle, and if you are very lucky, something with an MOT... tghough likely that its an eithert or choice... you can have a bike with an MOT OR a bike with a running engine... but at that price likely not both!

£750 up... you stand a chance of looking at a bike that a) runs b) has soimne tax and test on it... how far you could ride it from where you biught it is another question... it would probably need attension straight away, and be a last-legs special staving of trip to the scrap heap.

£1000-£1500 is the danger zone of the 125 market. That is about what most people are prepared to pay for one, plenty of bikes about at that price, but whether they are any better for it, remains hobsons, and theres far more buyers for thes things than sellers.

Starts to make 'Big-Bikes; look actually far more affoirdable IF you got a licence to ride one... A-N-D you steer away from the more audaciouse offerings like the sport-600's.

Things like Yamaha 600 Diversions, are an old battle tank, renown for being tough as nails, and a staple of the schools and despatchers.

You can pick up a good one for a grand... thats 50% LESS than you suggest spending on a 125..... Like for like... I pay 50% less a year to insure my 750, than I do my 'four-stroke' 125... this begs the suggestion, and its far from unreasonable, THAT for the same money it would take to buy, and insure, either of the 125's you suggest, that at best are likely to be uninspriring, at worse a complete liability.... you COULD do a DAS course, get a bike 4x the displacement, AND insure it, AND do miles on it, far more comfortably and justr as cheaply, with actually LESS risk that the thing is going to grenade on you......

A-N-D with a weeks worth of lessons and learning chucked into the deal? Hmmm, yeah... slightly better chance you'll spot that SMIDSY fella before your onspecting Renault door handle lock mechanism... as you pick it out your theigh!

The suggestion of going DAS, you have aluded to having considered and dismissed, and suggested is only a non starter because you aren't banned and can get insurance?!?!? I dont know..... SOMETHING there dont add up.....

Your licence status is your licence status, and if that's going to put insurance prices up, it will put insurance prices up... whether that's for a 125 or anything else. Given you will be paying the 'learner-loading' and as suggested likely as much as 50% more to insure a 125 as anything else, logic says that that 'reason' for not doing DAS is actually backwards, and sticking to a 125 will STILL actually cost you not save you.....

Me-Thinks, as so many newbies, here that there is rather a lot of kiddology going on, to c onvince yourself why a 125 is absolutely, in the face of all contrary advice the 'best' idea, and as has been suggested, you are deturmined NOT to take any advice that contradicts you pre-conceptions here about what you want to do....

And I SUSPECT that an enormouse chunk of that is reluctance to go do a dang DAS course, cos of the week off work you presume you need or whatever...

BUT remains, there is something you are not admitting here.... and likley as much to yourself as us...

Your call...

Answering the question you posed and pandering to your pidgeon holes....

CBF125 vs Veradaro?

Neither really, but most definitely NOT the Veradaro, based on likely money-pit age. CBF based on inflated dealer price and reputation.


Big thanks for the time and effort you put in. Firstly the reason I am 16 stone is due to the GYM. Multi-gyms are for injured chaps, veterans and plebs. Free weights all the way! I have a 34 inch waist and a 46 inch chest. I am this way by design.

You say it will make bog all difference and yet I have never seen a moto3 champion of my stature, coincidence perhaps?

Info on the varadero is great One thing I had not given too much consideration too is the varadero's composition in relation to maintenance. it is a big factor no doubt! thank you for that. I shall buy a centre stand.


My situation and decisions and your lack of knowledge about them is perfectly fine. worry not.


thank you again.
____________________
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks its head out of a car window.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jimbobjammybo...
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:58 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
TM, OP ain't too serious, and maybe they don't need hold handing or reassurance their idea or path is infallibly logical and perfect. But yeah they are certainly only telling us as much as they want to, and there's something behind that somewhere.

Someone serious about riding a bike or help and advice would bare all and listen to all the information and options out there, even if they choose to do their own thing after.



The Psychoanalysis attempt is endearing no doubt. the notion of perfection is abstract. your attempt to undermine the nature of my intention here is laughable.

My advice is stick to digging trenches and shoveling the muck back in after...
____________________
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks its head out of a car window.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jimbobjammybo...
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:00 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
jimbobjammybob wrote:


Ideally I would do that fella and its the best idea thanks but as I said in the OP that's not possible. here coming here for advice.


Don't underestimate how much other bikers enjoy kicking tyres. You could easily ask on here for someone to come with you.

I see from your profile you're Stranraer-ish. Don't buy one off an Irish bloke in the ferry car park. Not even if he offers you a free puppy to close the deal.


I already know that is sage advice I have seen and heard things... appreciate the heads up thank you!

I have now managed to aquire through the RBLRB a fellow very willing and able to accompany me on a 3 bike viewings.

top banana! Thumbs Up
____________________
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks its head out of a car window.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Johnnythefox
Traffic Copper



Joined: 01 Dec 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:51 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mid life crisis DAS full licence trumps a 125
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wonko The Sane
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:18 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a height point of view, I'm 6'1 and had a Varadero as my first bike, it's the newest bike I've owned being about 5 years old when I got it.

The seat height is a full 10cm higher than the CBF125 or whatever the general 125cc run-around was at the time and I actually struggled to get onto one and ride it when mine broke down during my DAS training!

They are a good bike, rode mine from London to Manchester when I moved house (A roads all the way, still on CBT) and commuted on it on the motorway after I'd passed, it'd do anything asked of it happily.

As Tef has said, they are getting older now and being a 125, will have been abused by an owner at some point so I'd assume any and all are hiding a possible issue (compression on one cylinder of mine was half what it was but it plodded on happily without me doing anything with it as didn't know what to do about it and would have lost my job if I'd taken it off the road to have it sorted - I've learnt better since then)

From that I went to a sports tourer and it didn't take me long to get used to a slightly more curled up riding position, even though I'm tall, I can happily ride a CBF125 but wouldn't take it on the motorway unless I had to (although if you've got your sights on DAS in the long term I expect you'd sell the 125cc before being legal on the motorway anyway)


in short, the vara is a great bike, especially for a tall rider
getting old, expect problems as Tef says
you get used to any bike with a bit of time.

Have you done your CBT yet?
You'll get an idea of fitting on a 125cc from doing so, most 125cc bikes are much of a muchness in terms of riding position.
____________________
Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

CBFcarl
Nearly there...



Joined: 29 Oct 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:54 - 26 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just sold my CBF125 after nearly 5 years, and I loved it. It wasn't amazingly fast, but it got me to and from work without any issues. The biggest issues that I had were:

The battery just died at one point. On my way home, stopped off, and wouldn't start back up. New battery = back up and running.

Head Race bearings needed to be replaced. tbf the bike was still rideable, but it was an MOT fail if i didn't replace them.

Rust - my bike was kept outside, and rust did appear. Especially after all of the salt on the roads last winter, it got worse.

I got this after my ybr clone was nicked, and i felt a lot safer on it than the ybr clone. I was about 19 stone when I bought this, and I'm about 6 foot 1, but long body, and short(ish) legs.

I would consider a Varadero because of their size, but as mentioned - due to age I would give it a full check over - there are still some decent ones out there. I recently saw a decent nick one (some cosmetic damage) that was coming up for 10 years old, that was being advertised at £1800.

What people are saying is right though. If I had the money, I'd be going for a DAS and a big boy bike now. I loved my 125, but the issues that you can face on a small cc bike just aren't there with a bigger engine. At the end of the day, it is your choice, and if you are wanting a 125, then that is down to you.

Hope this helps.
____________________
thx1138 wrote: Well if you had a car, I'd bet it would smell like urine had had drunken sex with vomit and made a poo baby.
Polarbear wrote: They are all old now. Probably had more abuse that a Rotherham schoolgirl.
Hellkat wrote: I want to know if Nigella smells of garlic, or just minge.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 5 years, 155 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> New Bikers All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.10 Sec - Server Load: 0.36 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 73.39 Kb