CX 500 Honda

[KenB1951]

Hi . anybody good with swing arm on cx500 . have fitted new bearings and seals but the tension come securing bolt will not go full way in as it did before ?

Regards Ken.

[kgm]

I have a CX...but I'm not sure what you mean. Pictures?

The threaded bolt on the left side us made of three separate components- the bolt, the outer threaded part and a lock nut. Have you possibly displaced one of the other bits? Is the new besting/race properly fitted?

[bikenut]

you know of cmsnl for the exploded views....post a pic/pics and cmsnl diagram and explain......
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nuts about bikes

[WD Forte]

Pitchers would really help you know

Its a simple affair

The RH frame holds the Rh taper bearing 17
and the SA has a spigot which locates in it
( 18s are the oil seals btw)

The left hand end of the S/arm holds the LH taper bearing 17 and the bolt 11
screwed through the lower LH frame fits in that

Screw in to tighten, out to loosen/remove

The bolt (11) has a 10mm hex socket and lock nut (16)on the outer and rubber cap (14)

If it isn't going in as far as did then its assembly error or wrong bearings

OR

You did remove the old outer race (17) from the RH frame cup (8) I hope?
(they can be a sod to remove)
If not, this will push the new bearing out by 10-12mm or so and even if you did
manage to fit the S/arm, it will be off line and also prevent the screw going in as far as it did.

Pitcher

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cx500-1978-england-rear-fork_bigma000165f24_f553.gif
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bikers smell of wee

[KenB1951]

Hi WD . I did not remove any race from right hand side , I think you are right on the problem . The new bearings did not come with new race`s I thought you could just swap the bearings . So will I have to knock out the pivot bearing holder and get new race`s installed ? I still cannot see why with new bearings installed the swing arm would not go back into the same position ? Many thanks for all your help on this.

[kgm]

[WD Forte]

The correct terminology is the 'cone' and 'cup'
for TR bearings.
The cone is the inner part with the rollers and cage on it
the cup is the outer part
I just call em races so shoot me

When you remove a CX S/arm the cone usually comes away with the arm
and the cup always stays in the err.. 'cup thing'(No 8) in the frame
As I said, they're a sod to remove from the inside.
!
If I wanted to/had to fit new bearing cups to the 'cup thing' ( No 8) I'd remove the plastic outer bung (7) on the Rh side
and drill two diametrically opposed holes from the outside
about 3mm in from the inner edge.
I'd start with a 3mm drill then follow it up with say a 6mm drill
to allow a pin punch in to tap the cups out.
then remove burrs before fitting the cups and plaster shit loads of grease on it before refitting the bungs.

Hammering the fuck out of No 8 wont help you remove the cups
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bikers smell of wee

[kgm]

I cut my race out of the cup thing. Total arse of a job though and the above method sounds easier. The cups (no 8) are very rare but I have a source of new ones if needed.

[KenB1951]

Hi WD . As you say the cones stayed in the frame and the bearings came out with the swing arm . the bearings came from David Silver Honda Specialist in Leiston about 15 miles from us . it was about 1 yr ago when I bought them but will look again in packaging for cups . Why is the swing arm not going back to same position if I am using original cones with new bearings ?

Ken.

[kgm]

[WD Forte]

yeah what he said, pitchers or didn't happen
the old psychic abilities are playin up in this cold weather
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bikers smell of wee

[KenB1951]

O K , will get on it and get back . Many thanks .

[KenB1951]

Bolt

[KenB1951]

Pics

[KenB1951]

Pics

[KenB1951]

Pics

[KenB1951]

Pics

[KenB1951]

Pics

[WD Forte]

That outer race/cup isn't in far enough, it normally sits deeper than that in the holder (No 8)

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/caabc82c-666e-464e-8a77-a6e7731310a1.jpeg

Like this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20140506/heve5ena.jpg

You SURE you removed the old one?
I cant see in enough detail but the position of the new one
suggests the old one is still in there
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bikers smell of wee

[bikenut]

That don't look like a new one to new dude, see the corrosion holes and the bar "indentations" of the rollers as well as the inclined face, its the old outer race in place.

Me thinks your gunna have to get/make some expanding legs with thin knife edges to get under the inner inside face, and then a gentle slide hammer or puller....what does the oe manual show as a special tool to remove this ??

May be some warmth to the s/arm in that area.

You may even have to resort to mig welding a suitable large nut to the race and slide hammer/puller form that.

Clean claen clean the area and if mig welding make a shield to stop splatter "welding" its self to the surface your gunna have to draw the old race past/along/thru.

An electric drill, some oil/penetrent and a suitable small wire wheel would clean that area up a treat.
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nuts about bikes

[WD Forte]

The crusty looking one is just a pic grabbed ofn the interweb to show how deep the raceshould be in No8 its holder, it aint Kens.
In his pic, it looks very much like he's tapped in a new race(cup) on top of the old race/cup.

Ken.
Further examination shows you've probably done the same on the LH side too mate.
That bearing should sit deeper in the swinging arm than that and when the oil seal is fitted, it should be flush with the outer edge.
https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/573a8208-d014-4d2d-a61a-cbf91516bb55.jpeg
My advice:

Stop what your doing, clean it all down and remove those new races.
they may get damaged in the process
Then you have a choice.
Remove the old cups and fit new or take a chance and re use the old cups with your new cones

David Silvers want about £15 plus vat and postage for each bearing
(admittedly they're NSK and a quality make)
But
Those bearings are just a common 30202 (make a note of that number) and easily sourced.

For instance, simply bearings flog em for £3.68+vat upwards depending on quality ( budget/good/high)

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?sort=2a&search_in_description=0&keywords=30202&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhvDemaK93gIVy7TtCh1fngUHEAAYASAAEgJBtvD_BwE
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bikers smell of wee

[kgm]

I got mine from simply bearings, I think I usually.gonfor FAG. If you need a new bearings holder then you can get one on the Italian eBay. Possibly the only new one left in the world going by how hard I found it to get one. Took me two months.

[KenB1951]

Hi WD. I am sure you are right I must have stupidly fitted new races on top of the old ones not realising they had to come out . i phoned David Silver Spares where I obtained the bearings and they said they would have come with races .I can see your idea of 2 drill holes and thin punch through holes to get old race out although now I have one on top of another , heating swing arm would help I`m sure . What`s best way to get left hand side sorted? Honda due not do pullers for these bikes anymore , can I get bearing remover from some where else or get something welded on to assist with removal ? Blimey I have made a right dog`s breakfast of this , but thanks so much for all your help on this .

Kind regards Ken.

[WD Forte]

Ken,
I've made worse and much more expensive mistakes than that mate,
Just put it down to experience.

If you invest in a blind hole bearing puller, measure the inner diameter of the cups first to ensure you can get the right size puller.
the only other blind hole bearing I can think of on a CX is inside the gearbox, so you may not use it much afterwards, but it may save a lot of blood sweat and tears

Something like this may do it but check sizes first

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-Pcs-Bearing-Extractor-Set-Inner-Internal-Blind-Remover-Bushes-Puller-Durable/142944471035?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180409081753%26meid%3D99a8fa0181a0418caab402c52ddeed2a%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D202422999847%26itm%3D142944471035&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
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bikers smell of wee

[kgm]

If you have a tame welder on hand then you can try welding a ring around the inside face of the race. As it cools it can cause the race to contract and slip out easier.

Drilling holes is a well established method too. Heating the swingarm will help and you can also spray the race with a can of compressed air held upside down at the same time. (fires out cold liquid - don't get it on your skin as it can cause freeze burns).

Be careful with the cup (the big one that holds the race) itself though, easily deformed if you're holding it in a vice.