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andym |
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andym World Chat Champion
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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talkToTheHat |
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talkToTheHat World Chat Champion
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 02:15 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Conventionally, the 'ignition-switch'.... most commonly a key-switch, turns on and off the supply 'to' the ignition. A 'Kill' switch, is just that and conventionally 'kills' the engine by earthing the ignition on the low-tension side of the coil.. ie it still gets electric, but it gets short-circuited by the kill-switch so it don't make sparks.
(As aside, in days of yore, with magneto ignitions making sparks only when engine was spinning, and sold like a push-bike, you'd leave unlocked outside the post-office; separate car style ignition switches {they had them to save the coil burning out and battery going flat, taking live from constant battery feed} A 'Key' ignition switch wasn't a common 'standard' feature until the 1960's, when it was more likely an optional extra if offered at all, and many mopeds, particularly European pedal & pop's didn't have one at all.. you locked it up like a push bike... you had to pedal it to get it started.. so who'd even try?! SO, many motorbikes never had an 'ignition switch, just a kill-switch, WHICH I-Seem-To-Recall, was first mandated by the ACU for grass-track and speed-way bikes, back in the 1920's, and was operated by a leather lanyard around the riders wrist.. switch was two sprung contacts normally 'touching' to earth sparks, and rider pushed the end of the leather strap around his wrist between the contacts before he started it; so, when he fell off... leather pulled out from twixt the contacts, ignition earthed out, engine was killed, and 'hopefully' bike didn't carry on without him, into other riders or the crowd... But all a little academic and historical, and probably no help what-so-ever to you... interesting though)
Without looking at wiring diagrams, cant say what you got.. but, as far as the starting anomolies and the back-fire pop.... that shouldn't be down to the switch.
Whether ignition feed switch or LT earth kill, sparks is sparks, you get'em or you dont..... the 'pop' will be that when the sparks dont fire the charge in the hole, that charge gets pumped out the pot into the exhaust; where it can be ignited by hot metal or hot gasses to go bang in the pipe....
IF there's any noteable difference between hoe the engine behaves when you use either switch, its most likely due to the switch itself.... whether there's any condensation or crud twixt the contacts, whether they are worn etc, rather than whether they break circuit before coil, or short-circuit to earth before it....
A-N-D.... most likely switch to have a 'niggle' is the key switch..... it's most used, and has most functions and contacts, and intricacy with the yale mechanism for the lock tumbler.
Your 'emergency' kill switch is probably not showing anomaly on start up, cos unlike key-switch, its rare used and in better nick. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:15 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Not this again.
To give you an answer. Just using things on motorcycles/cars will keep them functional. Every car owner who never uses the parking brake, the door locks (key to open) and so on, knows what I'm talking about. Electrical switches are the same.
It's quite like the saying ''A rolling stone gathers no moss''. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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AshWebster |
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AshWebster Brolly Dolly
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Danhere |
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Danhere L Plate Warrior
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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andym |
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andym World Chat Champion
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pinkyfloyd |
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Danhere |
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Danhere L Plate Warrior
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 18:15 - 16 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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My bike doesn't have a key, just a start button and a stop button.
and one day when the throttle got stuck open I couldn't turn the engine off I had to stall it on purpose |
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Johnnythefox |
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Johnnythefox Traffic Copper
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virus |
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virus World Chat Champion
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 22:34 - 16 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Danhere wrote: | What do you do when you pull up it’s dark and you want to keep your lights on so you can be seen? |
Most ignition switches have three 'on' positions... 1st is accessory, 2nd sparks, 3rd 'park'.... lights will work in any possition, take your pick.... but personally I'd use neutral gear and leave the engine running so the battery dont go flat.
thx1138 wrote: | My bike doesn't have a key, just a start button and a stop button. |
Posh bugga... my trials bike has NO switches!
(I have fitted a kill-switch since though, cos of later ACU regs & laziness/bravery!!)
As supplied by the factory (in 1981), it came with the 'optional' lighting kit in a card-board box; that included a short wiring loom with a kill-switch on the small tin-box that actually screwes to the handlebars, with the three position light switch, 'off-dip-main'!!!
Engine 'stop' was supposedly via either a) stalling in gear.. not recommended when 3rd is about as tall as most firsts!) b) reaching down and pulling the spark plug cap.. also not recommended unless you like that cattle-prod sensation, of c) using the cable adjuster on the throttle to drop tick-over beneath stall speed.. which is I believe the 'approved' method of stops!
It actually has the casting boss for a second spark-plug drilling in the head, and clearance for a plug around it in the fining... this was aparently another 'option' like the lights; and was either used to fit a decompressor valve... not really needed on a low-compression two-stroke, other than as an engine 'stop' mechanism, but was apparently more popular on the higher compression enduro versions and the 350's, or for a second spark-plug of colder grade for 'start-up', or of hotter grade for when the plug oiled up on course!!!
Some interesting bits of advice in 1970's dirt-bike publications on the various ways to swap HT caps between them 'on course' or even 'on the move'!!!!! And even recommend in one, I recall that commented on the electrical insulation properties of modern 'synthetic'; riding gloves, especially when wet!!!! I also seem to recall one of those 'Tips' in the write-in column, recomending fitting a jubilee clip with a bit of hose pipe to the HT Cap as an 'insulated handle' to aid swapping between plugs on the move!
Oh! The joys millennial start-on-the-button, e-bay solution bikers will NEVER understand! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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pinkyfloyd |
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pinkyfloyd Super Spammer
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 17:23 - 19 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Rather depends where the key-switch is located, and where your familiar with it being located.
The 'traditional' placement for a key-switch used to be on the right-hand-side panel, cos that was where the electrics gathered.
It migrated to the top-yoke probably in the 1960's, not so much because that was a more conventient place to put it, but, with lights becoming 'standard equipment' that's where most of the wiring was put.
A lot of cruisers, still hark-back to the practice of putting equipment, like the speedo, and switches on the petrol tank, others, to having the key-switch on the side-panel, to keep the head-lamp region 'clutter free' for that all important styling.
As mentioned, my Cota, as supplied in 1981, came without electric equipment 'as standard', mostly because as a competition trials-bike, owner would as like rip it all off anyway, but, if you check the sales brochures for 1950's and 1960's bikes, a LOT of what we would consider basic 'standard' equipment, was in days of yore actually 'optional extras', right through to the 1980's.
It was actually a 'sales feature' of the Japanese bikes, when they started to come into the UK in larger numbers, after the 1973 collaper of the BSA conglomerate, that they had such equipment as lights and indicators, and even a pillion seat 'As standard', because contrary to the common conception that they were 'Cheap' actually they weren't all that much! They tended just to offer a 'lot' for the money, like basic equipment, and performance.
In the UK though, things like headlamps didn't become 'compulsary' equipment, until the mid 1980's!!!! Hence my Cota being sold, road-registered, with basically NO street equipment, not even a kill-switch, exploiting legacy-legeslation...
Curiousely however, I know it's a genuine UK model, because under the fibre-glass tank, there's an aluminium one... Only genuine UK models got these, the rest of the world got full GRP tanks, (Curiousely with a 'sight glass' fuel guage' running up the side!) but for the UK, C&U regs demanded the petrol tank had to be metal, so they cut the GRP in half so it went over the top of an aluminium tank!
Which is a little example of the craziness of beurocracy, demanding motorcycles have metal petrol tanks, probably a decade before they demanded they have things like lights! Also a regulation that has only recently been recinded, and was a reason many models, particularly of Italian motorcycle, that had blow molded PVC petrol tanks.. (you know like the petrol cans they sell in petrol stations!) Weren't imported into the UK through the 1990's!!!!
Trying to think, whether I have ever owned a bike with a side-panel key switch; I seem to recall that the Honda CB500 had one, but I never owned one. Only bike I think that did, was a BSA C15, which FRIGHTENINGLY, I acquired when I was 14, as a trials-chop base, and was a pre-suffix registration, I think circa 1961.. which would, and this is where the scare be, then, in 1985, at less than 25 years old, have been eligible for 'classic' Pre-65 trials, and 'newer' than ANYTHING I currently own! Probably, no, Definitely! including some of my socks! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 159 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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