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Insurance payout - take the offer or push for more?

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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Insurance payout - take the offer or push for more? Reply with quote

Some of you might know that in august this year a car driver swerved onto the wrong side of the road, ploughing head on into me and ensuring Rogerborgs F series nazi tractor makes it to 50,000 miles before mine ever will.

The driver who hit me has assumed full liability for the accident. Their insurer has sent an engineer to look at my bike, and confirmed it's a Cat B writeoff. They've also assessed the value at £4300 less £120 scrap value (I have to dispose of the carcass myself).

I paid £4500 for the bike when I purchased it, then spunked about another £600 on fancy mods (including a pannier rack, LED headlight, exhaust etc). The engineer has confirmed that they took all of this into account when they valued my bike.

The question I have is, is it worth me trying to get a better price from their insurer, or should I just take their offer and eat the loss? £4200 will just about cover the cost if I buy another F800 but I'll need to re-buy the pannier rack and headlight as the rack is bent now and the headlight yeet-ed off into a field somewhere and was never found. Has anyone had success claiming for mods off insurance?
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never accept the first offer, is the general advice. You've got nothing to lose by finding some examples of stock bikes for that price and them telling them you'd have to pay for all the aftermarket bits.
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bacon
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will want examples of other bikes for sale to show them why you think it is worth more than they are offering.

Go on to MCN or Biketrader and look for bikes with the same spec/mileage and condition as yours.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, never take their first offer, unless it's obviously a good one. In my recent claim I got them to increase substantially twice, maybe three times? before getting ti an acceptable figure.
Second - it doesn't matter what you originally paid for the bike, what matters is its value at the time of the claim. Again, using my claim as an example - I'd had the bike less than two months before writing it off Embarassed so I had to provide the dealer's invoice to the insurer. Thing is, my purchase price was exceptionally good, as I'm convinced the dealer had priced my bike as a lower-spec model, and I ended up getting £1K over my purchase price, despite them having seem the invoice.
Third - which is how I managed the above - is to find real examples of current adverts for bikes as near-identical to yours as possible; ie showing what it will cost to replace, and send them to the claims handler.

Mods are a tricky one though - see my current thread here.

[EDIT: sheesh - note to self: never bother to reply to new forum threads within the first half-hour! Rolling Eyes )
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Last edited by Freddyfruitbat on 16:10 - 04 Nov 2018; edited 2 times in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you are planning on stripping and selling the parts,fuck off the 120 quid scrap value bit. You want the full value from the insurance and they can piss about trying to recoup their losses.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Re: Insurance payout - take the offer or push for more? Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:
They've also assessed the value at £4300 less £120 scrap value (I have to dispose of the carcass myself).

Just noticed that - is that not odd? I had intended to hang on to my own wreck and flogging it to a bona fide breaker, with the aim of getting more cash overall; however my insurer told me 'no dice', as mine was Cat B and therefore it was now only allowed to be transferred directly to a licensed breaker. I wasn't allowed to have it back at all, even expressly to transfer it a breaker myself. My breaker didn't seem surprised.
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks lads, this is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to hear. I'll persevere with finding some similar bikes (although finding other BMW riders who've actually done 40k miles on their bikes might be tricky). Razz

Also, I was told it's fairly normal to have to dispose of the bike myself. I specifically made sure it wasn't taken to a storage yard and hired a zipvan to take it to my house to avoid incurring storage fees, so I imagine they see it as my responsibility to be rid of it. I'll pull some of the easy bits that weren't wholly fucked by the crash and take what's left to the local yard to get a certificate of destruction for the DVLA to lose.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:
Thanks lads, this is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to hear. I'll persevere with finding some similar bikes (although finding other BMW riders who've actually done 40k miles on their bikes might be tricky). Razz

Also, I was told it's fairly normal to have to dispose of the bike myself. I specifically made sure it wasn't taken to a storage yard and hired a zipvan to take it to my house to avoid incurring storage fees, so I imagine they see it as my responsibility to be rid of it. I'll pull some of the easy bits that weren't wholly fucked by the crash and take what's left to the local yard to get a certificate of destruction for the DVLA to lose.


No, it's normal for them to give you the full value and take the bike off your hnds.

Tell tgem tgwtw what you want them to do and, if 120 scrap value is easily achieved, you want to be that added to the value.
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1198
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 04 Nov 2018    Post subject: Re: Insurance payout - take the offer or push for more? Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:
I have to dispose of the carcass myself


No you don’t. Tell them to bash it - unless you want aggro (or could remove your modifications and put them onto a new bike with a bit of straightening?).
Also research the replacement value of your bike. That’s what you want as an offer. You shouldn’t be out of pocket.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 05 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you want the written off bike?
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 05 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my car was totalled the payout offer was very low, after some hag droned at me for a few minutes and acted very offended when I told her she was wrong, I asked them to send the valuation reports.

These were very basic, the inputs seemed to be just model, trim, mileage, year and "condition" (i.e. v good, good, bad), followed by values from a few different databases.

Anyway, it seems that the ignition had died in the impact so couldn't check mileage, they then just guessed it to be about 30k higher.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 05 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It's normal for the bike owner to want the bike after it's been damaged"

Yes, on a lower category write off we'll often either fix the bike up and then ride it as a hack until it dies or strip it for parts. So bike owners are more likely to want to buy the wreck - that or to get the aftermarket parts (heated grips, custom seat, panniers etc)

if the bike has been marked as not allowed on the road then the insurance ought to be denying this as they have the responsibility to ensure it's not put back on the road, are they not acting illegally allowing a bike back out into the wild beyond their control?




as Ste has asked - do you want the bike back?

If not then tell them to screw it on the scrap fee, you want them to pay out for the bike and take it off your hands - you're effectively selling them the wreck, that's how an insurance claim works.

You've nothing to loose by negotiating, they may tell you "final offer, take it or leave it" at some point (never been in that position myself) it's not your insurance company you're pissing off by pestering - their job is to indemnify their client (he's responsible but has asked them to act on his behalf and cover him) their job is also to put you in a position similar to if the incident had never happened, so similar bike and modifications.
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P.
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 05 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always reject the low ball.

Never accepted it, never will.
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 20 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow up to this, I went back to my solicitors with a list of the five cheapest F800GS bikes in my area with similar mileage and spec, with valuations coming in between £5k and £6500. However, they've responded that their engineer who assessed my bike is standing by his valuation of £4200. For reference, I bought the bike for £4,500 about a year ago with 30k miles at the time, it had 37k on it when it was written off.

My solicitors wrote:


Good Afternoon [Vracktal],

I have recently received comment back from the Engineers following your recent comments.

They have advised that with regards to the overall valuation of your bike, they have followed the FOS guidelines which they use as guide data. They do not consider local adverts when looking at valuations as advertised prices are subject to negotiation and are a requested price from the dealer only. The Engineer has advised that he is not willing to amend the valuation provided within his report.

With regards to the extras on the bike, if you are able to provide evidence in support of their purchase, I can look to include them within your claim.

Please advise as to whether or not you agree the content of the Engineers report.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Kind Regards,

[My Solicitors]


Not sure what to do next. A lot of the extras I put on it were right when I first purchased it so although I have bank transfer or paypal records for them, the original listings aren't available anymore.

I want another F800GS and with the value they're offering me i'll be hard pressed to find one in my spec, but I don't know how to convince them to press for a payout that will actually even cover that.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 20 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they're "only" offering £4.2K, and you cannot get a replacement for that price, perhaps you/your solicitors would consider an action in the County Court (taking them to a "small claims court"). You'd have to pay a court fee, which may be reclaimable. Maybe worth investigating.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 20 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vracktal's solicitors wrote:
They do not consider local adverts when looking at valuations as advertised prices are subject to negotiation and are a requested price from the dealer only.

That wording doesn't actually make sense, but is the implication that you've provided them with listings for private sales whereas they will only accept dealer prices? (If so, you know what to do...)
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 20 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Vracktal's solicitors wrote:
They do not consider local adverts when looking at valuations as advertised prices are subject to negotiation and are a requested price from the dealer only.

That wording doesn't actually make sense, but is the implication that you've provided them with listings for private sales whereas they will only accept dealer prices? (If so, you know what to do...)


The prices I provided were all dealer prices from a mix of MCN, eBay and Autotrader. What I think they're saying is nobody pays full dealer price so they don't consider this to be representative of a vehicle's value. Mad

Which is stupid because nobody is negotiating an £800 discount on a BMW, even in winter.

To be honest just the cost of my panniers and headlight together makes up the £800 difference so i'm sending them through reciepts for both purchases, and also for all the miantenance I did on the bike in the month or so before the crash as well. The most irritating thing is i've seen two or three F800GSes which would have made great replacements come and go on the classifieds, all while i'm waiting for my payout to be agreed. Rolling Eyes
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T.C
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 21 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most insurers/valuers will provide a trade price valuation which is always going to be below the retail price.

You are entitled to be compensated for a like for like.

Go back to your solicitor and tell him/her that you are not in a positon to accept what is a trade price valuation for 2 reasons

1. You do not have access to trade prices. Only those actually in the trade have access to such low valued machines.

2. You are entitled to be put back into a financial position you would have been in had it not been for the negligence of the third party. Therefore you should not be required to foek out any additional money to be put into a like for like position.

The third party insurers will alway try and get away with offering trade values even though they know that 99% of the riding public do not have the facilities to but at trade.

Do you know a local dealer who would be willing to provide a trade price value that you can use to prove to your solicitor that you know what you are talking about?

Your solicitor cannot accept a valuation or a sum on your behalf without your permission, and most engineers do not have much idea of what is and what isn't a fair price.

The other alternative is to include the difference between the trade value and the retail value as part of your scedule of losses (similar to claiming for your excess) or get your solicitor to issue proceedings for a quantum trial (valuation trial) for a proper judgement.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 21 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should do what T.C says

Were it me, I'd shamelessly steal quite a lot of that almost word for word. Laughing
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 21 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C wrote:
Most insurers/valuers will provide a trade price valuation which is always going to be below the retail price.

You are entitled to be compensated for a like for like.

Go back to your solicitor and tell him/her that you are not in a positon to accept what is a trade price valuation for 2 reasons

1. You do not have access to trade prices. Only those actually in the trade have access to such low valued machines.

2. You are entitled to be put back into a financial position you would have been in had it not been for the negligence of the third party. Therefore you should not be required to foek out any additional money to be put into a like for like position.

The third party insurers will alway try and get away with offering trade values even though they know that 99% of the riding public do not have the facilities to but at trade.

Do you know a local dealer who would be willing to provide a trade price value that you can use to prove to your solicitor that you know what you are talking about?

Your solicitor cannot accept a valuation or a sum on your behalf without your permission, and most engineers do not have much idea of what is and what isn't a fair price.

The other alternative is to include the difference between the trade value and the retail value as part of your scedule of losses (similar to claiming for your excess) or get your solicitor to issue proceedings for a quantum trial (valuation trial) for a proper judgement.


I was going to type this ....
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 21 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C wrote:
Most insurers/valuers will provide a trade price valuation which is always going to be below the retail price.

You are entitled to be compensated for a like for like.

Go back to your solicitor and tell him/her that you are not in a positon to accept what is a trade price valuation for 2 reasons

1. You do not have access to trade prices. Only those actually in the trade have access to such low valued machines.

2. You are entitled to be put back into a financial position you would have been in had it not been for the negligence of the third party. Therefore you should not be required to foek out any additional money to be put into a like for like position.

The third party insurers will alway try and get away with offering trade values even though they know that 99% of the riding public do not have the facilities to but at trade.

Do you know a local dealer who would be willing to provide a trade price value that you can use to prove to your solicitor that you know what you are talking about?

Your solicitor cannot accept a valuation or a sum on your behalf without your permission, and most engineers do not have much idea of what is and what isn't a fair price.

The other alternative is to include the difference between the trade value and the retail value as part of your scedule of losses (similar to claiming for your excess) or get your solicitor to issue proceedings for a quantum trial (valuation trial) for a proper judgement.


Significant Karma due to TC, as I'm gonner copy this more or less word for word and paste it in an email to my solicitors Very HappyThumbs Up There's a BMW dealership in Guildford i'm friendly with, i'll see if I can get their idea of trade price on my bike too before I reply.
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