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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admittedly it has been many years since I have been to anything bigger than Halifax Town (not a hotbed of racism btw...), but are you honestly telling me that the psyche of football lads has changed so much? All that has changed is CCTV.

Just because somebody gets paid too much doesn't give you the right to racially abuse them.

The Huddersfield/Brighton thing I find funny btw, which may be a contradiction...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never been one for quotas or for positive discrimination, however while there are many excellent black footballers who earn silly money, they are there for their physical prowess, not their mental ability.

How many blacks are in the 'intelligent' side of football as in managers, assistant managers, trainers and coaches, very few.

Now whether that is because they don't try and proceed up that path or because clubs don't want blacks? Well, I know where my money would go.

As far as supporters go, yes, racism is rife, even if it's involuntary as in someone shouting 'black bastard' in the heat of the moment. As for the banana skin, come on, you can't justify that in any way.

When does a chant stop being a wind up and start being phobic? I can't say. People call Brighton fans poofs, Spurs fans Yids and those seem relatively accepted.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Admittedly it has been many years since I have been to anything bigger than Halifax Town (not a hotbed of racism btw...), but are you honestly telling me that the psyche of football lads has changed so much? All that has changed is CCTV.

I'm surprised anyone would argue against it tbh Laughing

What is curiously funny though is a gang of mixed lads throwing abuse to a black player (anecdotally seen), sometimes I think people just grab onto whatever they can to try to get under someone's skins, especially when the other or another tribe etc which footy as a concept plays into and amplifies.

To argue it doesn't exist though? Twilight zone again.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My view is that it is about how it is intended, and how it is taken. A bunch of Brighton supporters exchanging chants with Huddersfield for example isn't a problem for most as it is intended in jest and given back in jest. If it were Manchester United supporters (or scum/munics as they were affectionately known back in the day) taunting scousers about Hillsborough then it is different because it would be designed to offend and provoke, and would be taken as such. Likewise scousers taunting ManU about flying.... It is all about perspective.

Chants aimed at individual players need to be viewed with perspective also. Monkey chants and banana throwing for example isn't intended in jest. 'You fat bastard' or 'who ate all the pies' aimed at somebody like Jan Molby for example had an element of humour and I hope was accepted as it was meant. 'Who's the bastard in the black' refers to clothing, so isn't racially offensive. Perspective....
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBC are in full on bias mode this morning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-46533245

Load of quotes from members of the public - all in favour of May.

No balance at all.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Sload wrote:
To argue it doesn't exist though? Twilight zone again.


How many matches do you go to? Who do you support home and away?


I support the liberal leftie fairies and go to 10,000 matches a year.

Ok i'll give you a better answer, but not against my anecdotal point you are trying to weasel as though I stated as a fact. I'll address the bit you highlighted.

From a very quick google:

Damn those lefty BBC cunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46283853

They were citing https://www.kickitout.org/news/27000-fans-around-the-world-show-attitudes-towards-race-inclusion-in-football

Even Wiki is getting in on the action
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_association_football

Want some Russain propaganda with your morning tea?
https://www.rt.com/uk/243621-racism-football-study-britain/

Here is another one around this topic, a bit more academic for you perhaps?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259645995_A_statistical_study_of_racism_in_English_football

Another drier more academic one talking about oughts for you?
https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/dspace-jspui/bitstream/2134/12124/3/Fans,%20Racism%20and%20British%20Footbal.pdf

And a little hint for you. If you go to the bottom of the studies or even the wiki you can then look at sources and references to find even more stuff. Crazy ain't it.

This stuff is out there you know. I'm not even gonna argue the validity of the above with you until you acknowledge that leave voters are not a binary block, we r not ure enemy fella.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Japan, they openly despise the outsider (and it's encouraged by the government) while smiling and bowing.

Not sure how good this data is, it was the on the first page of Google results (the rest seemed to be news articles): https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/

Sload wrote:
What is curiously funny though is a gang of mixed lads throwing abuse to a black player (anecdotally seen), sometimes I think people just grab onto whatever they can to try to get under someone's skins, especially when the other or another tribe etc which footy as a concept plays into and amplifies.

People miss this simple point a lot IMO, you shouldn't bring someones race into it, but you also shouldn't bring someones weight into it, yet you're still likely to call someone a fat c**t in an argument. Fans are mega abusive at football matches, it's probably not a place to take a kid if you don't want them learning a load of swear words/gestures.

What annoys me about this is how they've used one (alleged) incident as a springboard for the racist society/narrative again. Ian Wright wrote an article about a (not that it matters but white) teacher 'who changed his life', the BBC when Lewis Hamilton won his 5th WDC went with the overcoming racism angle, when Lewis has acknowledged all the people that helped him, who again just happen to be all racist white devils.

Or yet another example, Mike Tyson getting taken in by a white trainer:
https://images.nymag.com/news/features/tyson131021_4_560.jpg
And yet I've heard Tyson using racist language towards white people.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Japan, they openly despise the outsider (and it's encouraged by the government) while smiling and bowing.

Not sure how good this data is, it was the on the first page of Google results (the rest seemed to be news articles): https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/



OK, It's my opinion but based on the countries I've been to and worked in which are many, but that list is utter utter shite.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
OK, It's my opinion but based on the countries I've been to and worked in which are many, but that list is utter utter shite.

I 100% defer to your experience Smile What would your list look like? I might be wrong on this but I doubt the West are the most racist. I'd say countries like Africa or India, where lynchings are still common, where there's a real chance of meeting a violent end for being an outsider rather than someone just shouting a nasty word. And outsider can mean a different religious group.


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Diggs
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MC these are all examples of people getting on with those of a different colour on a personal basis. We can all (I hope!) do that. To my mind trouble starts as soon as you get a group of a colour against fewer of another. Same with religion. Pick a colour/religion, all are guilty....
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
MC these are all examples of people getting on with those of a different colour on a personal basis. We can all (I hope!) do that. To my mind trouble starts as soon as you get a group of a colour against fewer of another. Same with religion. Pick a colour/religion, all are guilty....

These are examples that go against the white racist society narrative. I agree and that's based on my own experience, of being a minority in a minority area. If only white people can be racist what was it I experienced? Was it a backlash for white racism, but then why would someone who's experienced racism want to be racist?

If you have a problem with racism it should be all racism. Yet it isn't is it? Only white racism seems to matter, which's ignoring the root cause, general intolerance of each other which as repeatedly proven, can be something minor like being part of a different religious group/tribe etc..

If you want to solve racism that's what needs to be addressed, if you (I don't mean you personally) want to purely push an agenda lets carry on pretending it only works one-way.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Trouble is, a world full of equals is utopia.

We live in a society where we see difference before we see the person. It is how we react to the difference that counts. Example - I have just been to get a butty. Haslet and Branston on brown from the market. On my way down I passed a sewing shop and a black bloke was stood at the counter talking to the woman. What is my point? It is that I saw that the bloke was black, rather than the woman was white. Where civilisation kicks in is in me not assuming the person from the other tribe (no racist pun intended) was up to no good, because I am constantly told that black people are criminals, rapists etc by certain individuals on here....
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
OK, It's my opinion but based on the countries I've been to and worked in which are many, but that list is utter utter shite.

I 100% defer to your experience Smile What would your list look like? I might be wrong on this but I doubt the West are the most racist. I'd say countries like Africa or India, where lynchings are still common, where there's a real chance of meeting a violent end for being an outsider rather than someone just shouting a nasty word. And outsider can mean a different religious group.


I would really have to think about it to give you a comprehensive answer but there are points that list doesn't begin begin to consider.

Japanese don't (or probably more likely now didn't) like outsiders. They don't like working with them, they don't like living with them and they don't like their culture being polluted by them. Very few Japanese can speak another language. That said you will never experience overt racism as they are an incredibly polite society. Behind the smiles though....

Russia, and I was in east Russia, Sakhalin, was racist. They don't like darkies. However if this is the same in Moscow I can't say and it's a big country.

India I actually found fine, no ill feeling and friendly people whaereas both Pakistan and Bangladesh where I only went ashore from the ships I was trading on were really unfriendly. Now was that religious or racist.

Nigeria I worked in for many years and a more friendly people individually (outside Lagos) you would be pushed to find. However if you go in the wrong area they'll slit your throat for a few nira, is that racist or moneyist. Laughing

I have loads more experiences around the world that don't match that list - the black area of Norfolk, Virginia, USA was incredibly unfriendly when we walked in a bar until they heard our accents then they were OK. Racist or just pro British? South America - many stories I won't bore you with but other than Japan, every other country has been a mix of attitudes, just like UK I suppose.
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
I am, in fact, a flat earther

K mate woah! Don't be so rough on yourself pal!
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
We live in a society where we see difference before we see the person. It is how we react to the difference that counts.

This is the strange thing, I genuinely never used to, living in a mixed neighbourhood/city, yet now we're being told to see race everywhere. I thought it was just me but it seems to be happening with minority groups as well, which I find genuinely troubling. This is the work of the far left, they don't have a problem with dividing people for the reason I'll go into below.

Diggs wrote:
Where civilisation kicks in is in me not assuming the person from the other tribe (no racist pun intended) was up to no good, because I am constantly told that black people are criminals, rapists etc by certain individuals on here....

You see I am wary of black people, or I should quantify that, black people that match the 'stereotype' of those who used to regularly try and rob me and my mates (of all different backgrounds) growing up. This is where the left have got it wrong, they think you can make everyone see race (or to use the buzzword diversity), and then condition people to see it as a good thing. The world isn't that way I'm afraid, we all form opinions based on experience.

Both these statements are true; most of my friends and some of my best friends have been black, 95% of the guys trying to rob and stab us growing up were black. If you're generalising which one do you go with? Or is it healthier to think stereotypes have some basis, but you should still treat people as individuals.

Polarbear wrote:
I would really have to think about it to give you a comprehensive answer but there are points that list doesn't begin begin to consider.

Japanese don't (or probably more likely now didn't) like outsiders. They don't like working with them, they don't like living with them and they don't like their culture being polluted by them. Very few Japanese can speak another language. That said you will never experience overt racism as they are an incredibly polite society. Behind the smiles though....

Russia, and I was in east Russia, Sakhalin, was racist. They don't like darkies. However if this is the same in Moscow I can't say and it's a big country.

India I actually found fine, no ill feeling and friendly people whaereas both Pakistan and Bangladesh where I only went ashore from the ships I was trading on were really unfriendly. Now was that religious or racist.

Nigeria I worked in for many years and a more friendly people individually (outside Lagos) you would be pushed to find. However if you go in the wrong area they'll slit your throat for a few nira, is that racist or moneyist. Laughing

I have loads more experiences around the world that don't match that list - the black area of Norfolk, Virginia, USA was incredibly unfriendly when we walked in a bar until they heard our accents then they were OK. Racist or just pro British? South America - many stories I won't bore you with but other than Japan, every other country has been a mix of attitudes, just like UK I suppose.

I'm genuinely not sure. I would have to say there's a racial element, as they obviously see that you're an outsider. That was my point, is it worse to meet a violent end, or have someone call you a racist name.

I've posted this a few times as it illustrates how some black people see white people: https://youtu.be/kGjSq4HqP9Y?t=34 There was also that other video recently by that French rapper which was removed (about killing white people).

Overall again I defer to your experience as you've obviously traveled the world. Based on those I've met here, I've found West Africans to be fairly racist, although I've still had (good) friends from their community it was clear their families weren't happy about it. They also tend not to like those from the Caribbean, who do seem to be more open to mixing. Bangladeshi friends/their families have always been alright, I guess that's why experiences vary Smile
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Sload
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound sooooooooooooo mad.

At this point, I feel like I'm just being a bully, time for a brew matey.
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 12 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
. Based on those I've met here, I've found West Africans to be fairly racist, although I've still had (good) friends from their community it was clear their families weren't happy about it. They also tend not to like those from the Caribbean, who do seem to be more open to mixing. Bangladeshi friends/their families have always been alright, I guess that's why experiences vary Smile


You see I find the ethnic minorities here completely different to the ones when I have visited their countries. Obviously they are not minorities there.

I find blacks in a black neighbourhood in UK much more dislikable than the ones in their own country. i have found Pakistanis on the whole friendlier over here than in Pakistan.

But it's all subjective. I grew up on a sink white estate and I'm sure we weren't much liked by everyone. Laughing

I really enjoyed travelling the world and seeing all the different country's and cultures. I was lucky my choice of job gave me that and paid me for doing it but it still doesn't make me want large immigration populations in my country though.
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 18 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

'The Tottenham fan who threw a banana skin during the north London derby at Arsenal has been banned from football for four years and fined'.
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 18 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
but they did give their kid "Adolf" as a middle name.

I think I'd be leaving that off application forms Smile
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 19 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:


I see being right wing now illegal too. A young couple have been jailed for a total of 11 years for being members of a far right group.
They hadn't actually done anything wrong, other than being members of a group too far right for the establishment, but they did give their kid "Adolf" as a middle name.
Oh and further "evidence" of wrong doing, they found a Nazi pastry cutter. Come on FFS!


I'm surprised you didn't mention the Swastika scatter cushions as well.

I would put money on it that if this lot (because there were several more jailed in this case) were called Rashid, Mustafa, etc and were quoted by the judge as ' aims and objectives are the overthrow of democracy in this country by serious violence and murder, and the imposition of an Isis-style state which would eradicate whole sections of society by such violence and mass murder' that you'd be the first person shouting to have them strung up from the nearest tree but no it's ok because the judge actually said 'Nazi-style' and they've got nice white person names??
You, sir, are a hypocrite.
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