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hoodlumrider |
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hoodlumrider L Plate Warrior
Joined: 12 Dec 2018 Karma :
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jaffa90 |
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jaffa90 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 01:51 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Wisdom?
I'm chomping at the bit .
If you need more horsepower buy a bigger engine bike.
Saves hassle with insurance comps declaring the mods. |
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hoodlumrider |
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hoodlumrider L Plate Warrior
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 02:54 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Yes it's possible if you know how to machine all the necessary parts for fitting the engine in the frame for starters.
It would be a complete waste of time and money and the bike will still be a shit slow 125 with L plates on. |
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hoodlumrider |
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hoodlumrider L Plate Warrior
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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hoodlumrider |
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hoodlumrider L Plate Warrior
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Aug 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 08:40 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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The truth? A total nightmare. Read on if you're interested..
It's far far easier to use an engine which is a straight forward 'drop in' unit. If it's not then consider this list:
The engine has to physically fit into the gap left by removing the old engine.
You now have to consider orientation on 3 axis - forwards/backwards, up/down, left/right.
Does the chain go to the same side of the engine?
Do frame mounts match up?
Once the replacement engine is in, how does it compare? For example how close is the fuel tank? (Fuel will boil if too close)
Once the engine is in, all control cables and links will need to be sorted and linked.
The engine electrics will need marrying into the wiring loom.
Exhaust(s) now need coupling.
Frames are not made of general everyday steel and so redoing mounting holes will need excellent fabrication skills and knowledge. Actually almost every part of the mounting process will need good skills. Personally I wouldn't tackle the exhaust linking never mind the rest and I'm a blacksmith/welder! It's really not worth the scraped knuckles and hundreds of engine mounting/removals to adjust and suit.
Don't get me started on the leccy bits!
All done now? If the engine sits just a few degrees out of angle then there's the potential for oil lubrication problems inside the engine. Just saying..
Insurance? Good luck with insuring that modified 125!
If you have the skillz and the knowhow and this isn't your everyday bike then nah don't do it. There are far easier things to make that will test skills and come in handy - a bike stand for example.
I once put a Suzuki B120 engine into my Yamaha TY50. It kinda worked though mounting brackets had to be made (courtesy of Swan Hunters ship yard actually!). It boiled the petrol and was generally shit anyway and the monstrosity lasted a week before both bikes went back to standard - that was a biking confession and I'm so sorry folks. My excuse is I was 16 ____________________ CCM 404 DS |
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 08:53 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Well, we've really pissed all over his bonfire. |
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hoodlumrider |
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hoodlumrider L Plate Warrior
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:09 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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I am trying to think how many 125's ever had V-Twins in them....
... Honda VT125 Shaddow / Very-Oh-Dear-Oh
.... Suzuki... err... they did a cruiser that wasn't the it-doesn't ma-Roar-der... Savage, maybe?
... Yamaha... I think there was a 125 cruisery-thing, it might have been a Drugstar...
..... Kawasaki... pretty sure that the 125 Eliminator was always a parallel twin, like the Honda Rable... sorry, Rebel.
There were a few interesting cruisers from Italy, The Gilera Red-Rose being one I recall.... but that and the Aprilia and Cagiva rivals were schizophrenic two-strokes, not twins, though post Euro-Borrox emissions, they may have stuffed, probably Suzuki V-Twins in them, like the Hyosung...
ANYWAY.... list of possible 125 V-Twin 'Donors' is, err rather short..... Its also noteable that almost all of the bikes you might rob a 125 V-Twin from, for transplant, are, generally more valuable than a Sinnis....
This begs a rather curious conundrum, in that you are starting with what is essentially a 'cheap' budget bike, which you would almost certainly make LESS vaualble by doing any sort of 'customisation' to it.... a-n-d... the customization you contemplate begs taking an engine out of a rather more expensive bike, WHICH, is probably most cost-effectively acquired as a whole bike.... usually cheaper to buy a breaker than the piece parts that have been taken off one by a breaker..... easier and cheaper to fix that up than try grafting its bits onto something else!
SO... there's a fair few counts against the plan before you begin..... A-N-D this idea you 'ownleee' really wanna do it for that V-Twin rumble.... err... yeah..... NO!!!
Have you ever heard a 125 V-Twin? Actually, have you ever heard ANY 125 four-stroke twin!!!!
They do not 'rumble'... in fact, if anything they sound even more weedie than a single, cos the pots are each half the size and they have even less volume in the fire hole to make the deep low-bass 'resonance' associated with a Harldfley....
I say Hardley...... my MOT man retired a couple of years ago; I had to taker err-nibs bludi-guzzi, a V-twin, for its ticket, and the new chap was a hardley lovin cut-off-type.... he kept looking at it when I wheeled it in the work-shop, and then muttered "I heard you pull up... I was expecting a Hardley.... is it outside?" Lol.
To wit, its not the shape of the engine that imparts that 'noise', its the size... and peculiarly a little bit of early exhaust opening 'tuning'.....
A mere 125cc pot, does not have the displacement to chuck out that rumble.... cut it in half and bolt tow of them together... they have even less chance....
REALLY.... this is a complete 'random' association of daft ideas, that you want that 'noise', and so you must need a V-Twin to get it.....
And that is before any ponderation of the practicalities of 'customisation'... which usually means spending money to make a bike less valuable, less rideable, and less reliable.....
Beyond that... anything is possible with a big enough hammer and a gas-axe..... Some-one stuck a GSXR1100 engine in a mini-moto fer crissiks.... but likely they knew it was a daft idea before they began!
For where you are starting? I suspect it is very very much a non-starter, before you begin.
Very fact you ask the way you did, hints that you 'hope' that there's a V-=Twin bike out there you can rob an engine from, that will drop into your sinnis Chassis 'Bolt-for-Bolt'..... there isn't, sorry... and even if there was, you still have little niggles like finding or making exhausts to suit, sorting out electrics from different bikes, sorting out the carburetors and air-box, etc etc etc..... EVEN if the engine went in bolt-for-bolt, it would STILL be no ten minute job.....
Two-Years until big-bike becons.... hints that you are a 17 year-old on CBT, believcing you cant have anything more until 19, or a 19 year-old sold the line that you may as well wait until 21 and only have to pay once to dooow-DAS and get the ride-what-you-like-licence, for your money in a oner.
Either way.... BEST spend of any time and or effort right now will be to learn to ride and get a licence.... EVEN if thats the 125-only A1 licence.... at least you get to ditch the L-oonie plates and not risk points on the licence you likely dont even have yet for them being cracked, the wrong spacing or missing.... and no-spanners or oxy-ascetalene required.... curiously the bike will sound better and go better for it, too....
If you really want a rorty V-Twin, have patience.... by the time you had built something 125 C-Twin that's still not rorty.... it would likely be 2020 anyhow... so you may as well, spend the time, NOT wasting time, effort and money to build a never will be rorty 125, and if you REALLY want to get hands muky and graze knockles and make a bald spot scratching your head trying to figure out where you can bolt a battery box, or how to wire an MOT-able stop-lamp..... do 'something' project-bike wise for when you have licence to ride it....
Plenty of over 125 V-Twins that as standard have that 'rorty' noise, and many of them are probably worth less than your Sinnis.... Guzzi's came in V-Twin configuration ranging from 350cc up to 1200 or so. The 'Small-Bock' 350/500/650/750 'Tonti' Guzzis are wonderful creations, as said oft mistaken for a Hardley, with that V-Twin rumble; they are also all, if not native A2 licence complaint, certainly A2 restrictable. Think that Err-Nibs, claims just over 50 Italian-Stalions for its cc, and they dont take much to 'restrict' to A2 limits... even if the Rear-Wheel Dyno-print that shows one under even the 'old' 33bhp limit, wouldn't blag it!!!
The rival to the small-block Guzzi's, and precursor to the 'sport-V-Twin, by, oooh..... quarter of a century or so.... was the Morini 3&1/2 or 500, with an 'in-line' Harley-esque V-Twin arangement, rather like the later 'little' Ducati's L-Twin's.
There's three woppish examples straight OTMH; without contemplating that the Hardley 883 'Piglet' barely made 55 Virginia pit-ponies, and is equally A2 restrictable, and has the extra cubic-inches in its engine to make that 'real' V-Twin rumble.... of not a lot of motion.... so pedestrians can savour the sound as you go by..... seemingly for all eternity!!!!
Look to the rising sun, and the options are legion......
Top of the list has to be the 'My First Cruiser' Yamaha 535 Viagra..... sold by the bucket load, as a cruisery-cummuter, its actually quite a good bike, and there are many MANY examples that come up for penny prices, ranging from pampered garage trophies, oft bought originally by mid-life crisis men or as often women and never ridden in the rain, through to hard worked every-day hacks and scrap-heap refugees come rolling 'custom' projects.
Cheap, plentiful, and A2 restrict able, if needed. IF you have to have a project.... plenty to be found to keep spanners busy for the next couple of years; whether restoring one to brochure, or taking a butchered one and making it work... there in lies a lot of mechanical madness to be had, for when you have licence to ride it.... or anything else with an engine big enough to give you the 'noise' you hope for.....
Meanwhile, 125, is left stock, to do what 125's do best, offer cheap learner/commuter wheels, whilst you learn a thing or two and get a licence to let you have something to 'play' with, that stands chance of actually delivering what you hope for.
Back to the Drawing Board, I'm afraid.... more thought required. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:32 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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https://images.clickdealer.co.uk/vehicles/1217/1217841/large1/19464303.jpg
This bike appears to have no redeeming features.. I looks heavy, it looks like a 'cruiser' and it's chinko which means almost every element from seals to chrome/metal finish will be made of inferior materials.
As such I think Canal is the best option.
However, you could, if you have little conscience, sell it to a mate and buy something Japanese. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:36 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Oh dear, I've spent too long on BCF and now look whats happened..
Enjoy the Simnis while it lasts but plan for an update as soon as finances/licence allow.
(to self - there, there now that didn't hurt did it?) ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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growler |
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growler Traffic Copper
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 13:57 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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a very long time ago I put an SS50 engine into a CB50
this involved a crow bar and some rafter hangers
and we never could get it to run properly
It also had a huge spot light mounted above the headlight which when turned on killed all the other lights
My mate was caught riding it and was told to take that heap home and set it alight putting the poor thing out of its misery
As I mentioned it was a very long time ago ____________________ DILLIGAF |
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cb1rocket |
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cb1rocket World Chat Champion
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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dydey90 |
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dydey90 World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 00:01 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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stevo as b4 wrote: | And whats great about having two 62cc cylinders anyway. The cylinders are so small it's pointless trying to fit more than 2valves into the head, and a 4stroke 125cc single can flow enough air and could if designed to do so rev high enough to make over 20bhp. |
Erg-hum!!!!!
They could make a 125cc single make around 20-25bhp... fact is they dont, and never have. They HAVE made a 125 two-valve twin, that made 17bhp, as much or more than any of the singles... as we have debated before.......
The reason for a V-Twin.... these days is mostly aesthetic.
If you go back to the pioneering era, and the DeDion/Minerva coffee-tin single; boring a second hole in the coffee-tin crank-case to take a second cylinder, was expedient way of doubling the capacity and doubling the possible power, without doubling the weight or complexity. With both cylinders sharing the same crank-pin, the crank also didn't have to be any stronger or heavier, as the peak loading of one pot firing was the same, and smoothed out some by the phasing of the bangs.
That was what lead to the Harley and Hendee V-Twins in the USA, and gave rise to all the Blakburn and JAP and 'other' V-Twins from Britain, in that tween-war era, like the immortal Brough, though there were a fair few other non propriety V's, like the BSA and even the AJS, which intriguingly had transverse Vee arrangement, like a Guzzi, thirty odd years before Guzzi made one!
Interesting to observe that the Yanks claim the V-Twin as the 'Traditional' American configuration.... yet they never actually made all that many different ones! Britain did. Japan has! Itally probably as many again! It is an anathma!
Rather like them moaning that a Ducati, having a 90 Degree Vee, ISN'T a 'Vee', its an 'L'..... cos 'real' as in Hardley Davidson Vee's are conventionally 45 degrees.... Hmmmm... so the infamous Yank muscle cars with thier 90-Degree Oh... sorry, is it a Vee or an elL eight? Lol! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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jaffa90 |
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jaffa90 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 01:00 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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All very entertaining |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 16:18 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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You sound surprised. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 136 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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