|
|
|
|
Author |
Message |
rider90 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
rider90 L Plate Warrior
Joined: 13 Dec 2018 Karma :
|
Posted: 15:08 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: Danger! Death! Amputation! Disabilities! Brain damage! |
|
|
I really love motorbikes and want to learn to ride via a direct access course to A licence, then get myself a Suzuki Vstrom 650 XT.
However, all i hear from websites and people is do not get a motorbike, they are dangerous you will die or become disabled. Statistics pretty much tell the same story...
Right, well I spent weeks researching and I know statistics do not tell the full story. Most motorbike accidents are down to drunk drivers or weekend thrill seekers on high powered sports bike. Next is down to late night riding which also in most cases involves drinking. Next is bikers crashing into side road objects which is down to excess speed + cornering. Last is cars pull into motorbikes or in front of motorbikes because they did not see them. Well I guess this can be lessened by road positioning and aware riders.
So this got me thinking how safe are bikes really? If you do not drive drunk, thrill seek, ride aware, and on an all weather bike which has abs/tc.
But there is hardly any or no stats displaying accidents or fatalities for commuters on adventure bikes - or bikers who are advanced trained vs those who ride for thrills and as a hobby.
The best I could dig up was there are more Policeman fatalities who use cars than Policeman on motorbikes it was something like 37/1000 for cars 26/1000 for bikes.
Although I am not fooled by statistics I still feel quite frightened about getting a motorbike, so I have come here to this forum to ask those who have been riding years (sensibly) how dangerous have you found motorbikes? How many accidents have you got into and what type of injuries did you sustain.
Am I a fool for wanting to get a motorbike? |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Ste |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
rider90 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
rider90 L Plate Warrior
Joined: 13 Dec 2018 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Tracey Suntan-King |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Tracey Suntan-King World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 Nov 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
rpsmith79 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
rpsmith79 World Chat Champion
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
rider90 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
rider90 L Plate Warrior
Joined: 13 Dec 2018 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Ste |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Confusion |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Confusion Scooby Slapper
Joined: 02 May 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 16:21 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: Re: Danger! Death! Amputation! Disabilities! Brain damage! |
|
|
rider90 wrote: | I really love motorbikes and want to learn to ride via a direct access course to A licence, then get myself a Suzuki Vstrom 650 XT. |
If you are over 24, go for it.
Quote: | However, all i hear from websites and people is do not get a motorbike, they are dangerous you will die or become disabled. Statistics pretty much tell the same story... |
Riding a motorbike is more risky than other forms of wheeled transport.
On the plus side, research from our Scottish department has concluded
that riding a horse is an even greater risk.
Quote: | Right, well I spent weeks researching and I know statistics do not tell the full story. |
Statistics should tell the full story. Fatal and serious injury collisions
are usually investigated to determine the cause.
Quote: | Most motorbike accidents are down to drunk drivers |
Source?
Quote: | weekend thrill seekers on high powered sports bike. |
There may be some evidence to support that.
Quote: | Next is down to late night riding which also in most cases involves drinking. |
Source?
Quote: | Next is bikers crashing into side road objects which is down to excess speed + cornering. |
That happens.
Quote: | Last is cars pull into motorbikes or in front of motorbikes because they did not see them. |
...and that.
Quote: | Well I guess this can be lessened by road positioning and aware riders. |
Training and experience will improve the odds in your favour.
Quote: | So this got me thinking how safe are bikes really? |
As above. Not as safe as a car, bus, train.
Quote: | If you do not drive drunk, thrill seek, ride aware, and on an all weather bike which has abs/tc. |
In my experience, motorcyclists, I mean real motorcyclists that actually
own a bike, helmet and a pair of boots don't drink before riding.
Statistics may suggest otherwise, but that is because they count
degenerate scum on stolen bikes as "motorcyclists".
Quote: | But there is hardly any or no stats displaying accidents or fatalities for commuters on adventure bikes - or bikers who are advanced trained vs those who ride for thrills and as a hobby. |
RSA statistics for Ireland give a fair bit of information like:
Time, day, month, type of collision, age of rider etc....
These support some of your statements above. For example
more than 50% of motorcyclist fatalities happen at the weekend.
Code: | The best I could dig up was there are more Policeman fatalities who use cars than Policeman on motorbikes it was something like 37/1000 for cars 26/1000 for bikes. |
Those are big numbers. Source?
Quote: | Although I am not fooled by statistics I still feel quite frightened about getting a motorbike, so I have come here to this forum to ask those who have been riding years (sensibly) how dangerous have you found motorbikes? How many accidents have you got into and what type of injuries did you sustain.
|
I have been riding bikes for many years. I have many friends who
ride bikes. Most have never suffered any injury. A few have
been injured. Typical injuries are cracked ribs or broken fingers from
minor collisions or falling off the bike.
Quote: | Am I a fool for wanting to get a motorbike? |
The choice is entirely yours. As you seem to place a lot of
value on statistics, UK roads are among the safest in the world.
Safer than here in Ireland, safer than France or Germany.
Not quite as safe as Sweden or Norway.
Last year saw the lowest number of road deaths on record
here in Ireland. We still have a good chance of doing
even better this year, unless the xmas bloodbath is worse
than usual. ____________________ Bandit 650SA, ZZ-R1100 |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
recman |
This post is not being displayed .
|
recman World Chat Champion
Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Pete. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Pete. Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Johanna |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Johanna Nova Slayer
Joined: 21 Jul 2018 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Tracey Suntan-King |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Tracey Suntan-King World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 Nov 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 18:05 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
Have you found any stats about the danger of rain on your visor?
I remember reading somewhere that literally millions of riders are killled, multiple times over, by rain on their visors.
Apparently, there is a remedy for this but for the life of me, I can’t remember what it was called.
Anyone?
Daresies.......
PS. Sock it to me baby ____________________ Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
almostthere |
This post is not being displayed .
|
almostthere Traffic Copper
Joined: 28 Oct 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 18:29 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
____________________ Beer, It's the reason I get up every afternoon
www.mfairco.uk |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Ste |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
yen_powell |
This post is not being displayed .
|
yen_powell World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
TbirdX |
This post is not being displayed .
|
TbirdX Crazy Courier
Joined: 06 Dec 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 19:16 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
I have been riding bikes, man & boy for forty years; that's one answered. Have to confess, I started as a school-boy, and got early into competition trials, before I was old enough to legally ride on the road, but still... there's thirty years of that.
Accidents? Err.... on the road.... off-road? THAT's another story!!! BUT..... a funny one for you.......
One sunny Sunday.... I was entered into a trial in the Cotsworlds, in an old quarry. I shared shed-space with some other fellas, one of them, Garry, had just restored an old Kawasaki KX440, last of the air-cooled two-smoke MX bikes of the Dave Thorpe era; other was Howard, who's been a works zook MXer in the Thorpe era, and convinced Garry to go give this beastie a proper outing, rather than just adorn his garage... So, they load the MXers on the back of Howards pick-up, I load my old Cota on the rack on the back of my car, and off we all head to separate venues.
Cut scene, to the return.....
I was struggling to unload the Cota from its rack, as Garry and Howard returned. The bike, was, 'a bit' bent up.... as you can imagine, banter ensued, and Garry was intrigued to find out how I'd bent the bike; answer was Section Five. Simple looking section, set by deviouse CofC, was actually a bit nasty! Essentially a forty foot climb up a clay-bank, with a rather tight U-Turn at the top, round a flag-pole, before descending again.... o-w-n-l-ee... the entry was on a dog-leg, and you had to turn immediately before you started to climb, a-n-d just to deter any-one from doing it on a run-up.... there was a foot deep ditch just before the climb..... you had to do it all on the throttle, which meant coming through the turn at walking pace, and starting the bludy steep climb from almost a dead stop, using 'enough' gas to get up, but not so much you lost traction or... yup... wot I did... every dang time... 'loop it'... or pull a wheelie, on a hgill and topple over backwards.... FIVE EFFIN TIMES! Bent the bars, bent the pegs back to the frame, lost the mudguards, the bike was unrideable.....
"Hold On! Your BLEEDING!" says Howard, half way through the story.... "Come on lets get you in the farm-house"
At this point, better mention that the shed was at my grand-parents farm; and my grand-mother was an ex nurse.
I'm bundled into the house, because I was bleeding and starting to go a bit feint..... Where-upon, Granny, looks me over, with that appraising eye and distain of both a mother and medical practitioner...... "Tut! I TOWLD you bikes wus Dain-Jruss! Silly boy! Come here, lets hurt you"... actually she probably didn't say that, but I think it's something they teach in Nursing school; How to inflict massive amounts of pain with anticeptic and scrubbing, A-N-D tell you its all for your own good!
Interogation continues in the farm kitchen, where Garry usefully makes a cuppa; still eager to hear the tail of daring-do..... whist Howard nods agreement at all my Grans' irascible ire over the stupidity of motorbikes and young men in general.....
Later... interminably later...... I got to tell how I hurt myself and came home bleeding, with a four inch gash up my arm accross a major vein in my elbow..... I still have the scar.....
"B-B-B-B-B- BUT!!! All I did was trip over in the car-park!!!"
Absolutely true; after looping it five times forty foot up a quarry face, and completely mangling the bike, I wheeled it back to the car, loaded it up, and then had the notion to walk back and specatate... see how the blokes that could actually ride did it! A-N-D tripped over, walking back to the car, and landed on a bit of concrete with a re-enforcing steel rod poling out!!!!
One of the worse injuries, let alone biking related injuries I have ever had.... and I tripped over in a car-park! No motorcycle involved, there wasn't even one within sixty feet of me at the time!!!
Moral of the Story?
Every one has tales to tell of carnage and destruction, devastation and disaster, involving a motorbike.... they make great stories...... BUT, bottom line, LIFE is dangerouse.... you can survive falling forty foot off a cliff face and having a motorbike land on top of you.... and need hospital attension, tripping over in the ruddy car-park!! Like they say, you can go into a war-zone and survive machine guns and bayonets for a couple of years.... and get run over and killed by a lorry crossing the street back home! (actually happened to my Gt Uncle Leslie, that one apparently!)
LIFE is dangerous.
Motorbikes?
Well, forty years on the damn things, and I aint dead yet. And curiousely, I don't actually have any personal friends that have deaded themselves either...
So.... you have checked some stats..... now go put them into context.... go see how many folk are killed or seriously injured, per participant hour scuba diving, or rock-climbing, or playing golf.....
There's a few surprises in there to be found..... horse riding, such a 'gentile' persuit, to such extent that no-one has qualms sticking thier twelve year old pampered princess on a 17hand stallion... Is actually more dangerous than riding a motor-bike, many times over!!!
I actually was set up on a blind date with a nurse, once... didn't go well, but another neat irony; she got all tight lipped and critical about motorbikes when I mentioned I rode one, and was told in great detail JUST how dangerouse they are, and how I was an organ donor in waiting, and ALL the micnce meat she had to try knit back together when 'you' come off, and get brought in by the meat-waggon..... "I see them!" she said.... which is sort of the point... she saw the ones that got mangled.... not the ones that didn't.... so the conversation sort of ended for a while, until she finished her drink, and hinted, for me to go get another round in, which I did.
Cue the irony, when I returned with the Vodka and Tonic.... and a new tirade about how glad she wasn't on duty that night; it was a week-end, and how she hated having to deal with all the 'Drunks' coming in...... as she sipped her V&T!!!!!
BUT go back to them stats.... per participant, per hour, you want Dangerous? Go for a pint of a Friday night! THAT'S dangerous!
Sift through all the alcohol related diseases and direct alcohol induced injuries; add in the girls breaking their ankles tripping off the kerb outside a nightclub running for a taxi, or the lads admitted for brain surgery with a stilletto heel impaled in thier bonce, and you will see just how dangerouse going out for the night actually is....and you dont need to go hunt very hard to see the examples, in thier hundreds on every street, in every town.... now go look see how many motorbike crashes you can spot!!!
In Forty years, I can count most of them on my fingers and toes... and most of them, only cos I was in them!!! like looping the Cota on section five!
YES, motorbiking is dangerous....
Do you drink? So is that! Especially on a Friday night. What? You only drink at home? Oh dear! Even MORE dangerous, HOMES!!!! You know 90% of all accidents happen in or around the home, dont you?
Again, ytou want stats, check out the stats on Domestic accidents. DIY is more dangerouse, per participant hour than riding a motorbike. From cutting your arm off with a circular saw tiling the bath-room, to falling off a stool changing a light-bulb..... per participant, per hour, SO many things are inordinately more dangerous than riding a motorbike......
YET..... folk do them almost without thought, and certainly thought of the dangers involved... cos, well, you just do, dont you? I mean you dont put on a crah hat and Armour like a medieval knight at the tilt, to get a bottle of windoline off the top shelf in the kitchen, do you... BUT you DO to go ride a motorbike....
And there in lies the dissociation, between actual risk and perceived risk.
We don't think how dangerous it is to stand on a stool in our own kitchen... we just do it, and most of the time, nothing happens, so it must be 'safe'.
We see some-one get on a motorbike, and all the 'safety gear' they tog up in to do it.... and immediately we IMAGINE how much more dangerous it 'must' be for it to be needed!
And it gets worse, because our perceptions of risk are skewed further, NOT by actually how likely you are to come off a motorbike, but how badly bashed up your likely to be because of it.
A-N-D even more..... you mention thrill seekers and adrenaline junkies..... yeah, the idea of the danger often attracts such folk to bikes, and they are to a certain extent a self fulfilling prophesy, an accident looking for a place to happen before they begin.....
BUT, doesn't much alter the real actual odds of an accident too much....
Take heed... you have some idea that NOT being a thrill-seeking adrenaline junkie, you HAVE to beat the odds and be 'safe'.... think again.
The odds is the odds. A coin can fall heads or tails; doesn't matter whether its a round two-pence piece or a seven sided fifty pence piece; doesn't matter how many times its been tossed before or whether it's been covered in tissue paper to save it getting scratched... it can STILL only fall heads or tails, the odds don't change!
And when we get on a motorbike; how likely we are to come off, is only notionally in our control.
At best we are mere passengers with influence, NOT masters of our own destiny; and MOST of the dangers we face out on the roads are pretty circumstantial...
The very IDEA that you are sensible, and therefore 'safe', is as dangerous a misconception as any other.....
Yes.... there are serial crashers who ride on the red-,mist of their excitement and never learn from falling off.... "Crash Test" my eldest is prime example...... but there's natural compensators, and balences, and actually, them frequent-fliers, who seem to crah an awful lot, also tend nbot to seem to get 'so' badly hurt each time, and all crashing teaches them is that they lives to crag about it, so can go do it again! And Again, and like crash test, seemingly again, time over time!!!
Perversely, it only takes ONE off to get you dead. And now, the more 'safety conciouse' and often more experienced NON crasher, will go NOT fall off... and then have just one that they dont walk away from, because however much 'kit' they have they have convinced themselves that they are 'safe' and ride without due heed to the real risks, thinking that the gear is some sort of invulnerability suit, or that having beaten the odds so far, so long, they always will, and similarly don't count the REAL risks....
In between, lies the majority of bikers, A-N-D, insurance and quango studies sort of suggest that the ONLY real thing that effects the actual odds of you crashing is miles.
Takes a certain number of miles, regular riding, not sunny day weekend warrior miles, to get a level of confidence and competence; generally around thirty thousand miles and three years; at which point the odds start to drop. In that probation period, post training and post test, you are around 5x more likely to crash. After that, it normalizes, some.
And you probably have to have a fair few 'moments' and likely more than the odd, hopefully not too severe 'off' to get an appreciation for what you are about, and where the 'real' risks lie; and that's not just how hard you tweek the twist grip; but when and where, and whats going on around you when you do or dont.
There's no grantees either which way; and yes, a 'sensible approach' is a good start... but safety is what you put in your head, not what you put your head in....
No want to get hurt... don't crash! pretty simple concept, and if you are determined not to get hurt, don't get on a bike, and be careful you dont have a heart attack running for the bus, and most definitely dont go to bed.... 99% of people die in a bed! Dangerouse dang things beds!!! Lol!
So you CAN enjoy a long and pleasurable, and mostly pain-free riding career, if you apply a little common cocum.... and that starts NOT
necessarily simply avoiding risk, or trying to mitigate them, looking for some magic button to make them go away, or take away the consequences; its about recognizing the risks, identifying them, putting them in order and context, and managing them 'appropriately' there-after.
As anecdote.... you can fall off a quarry face five times and have a motorbike land on top of you, and walk away from it... then trip over in the car-park and need surgery, for the injury!
Moral:? Watch where your effing going! Which is where it all starts.
* Stilleto's in the head? Err, yeah. Funny one that one. About twenty years ago, due to the number of 'bottlings' in town on a Friday or Saturday night; you know "Alchohol Related Injury", they passed local by-laws banning the serving of alcohol on glass containers, in town, to try and remove the ready "weapon" deemed to cause the injury.....
Another anathma there, glass like guns is NOT dangerous... its the person wielding the gun or the glass that's the danger... but still
There was an almost immediate drop in the number of admissions to the local Accident & Emergency unit at the hospital, for such injuries as faces gashed open by a glass....
Curiouse that... they took away all the glasses... how come the number of bottling incidents didn't drop to zero? It just 'fell significantly'...?!?!?
Actual number of admissions to A&E though, after a very short while, actually ROSE! And more, they started to see stilettos in the head, in place of broken bottles in the nose.... the authorities wondered why....
It posed an interesting quandary too, burley six foot blokes admitted to casualty with women's shoes in their head! NOT the sort of clothing you expect a burley 6foot bloke to wear out on a night out.... well.... NOT the sort of places I ever brave going anyway! Do they take them with them? Is it like the modern equivilent of a flick knife? Do they hang around comparing ladies foot-wear, saying things like "Yeah, well, the the six inch Prossie-Pump, look the part, but you cant beat the two-inch ice-maiden-pick, gives a better swing!"
Actual investigation suggested that the stilletto's were chucked into the scrap by the participant's girlfreinds, as often as not, and that that participation by otherwise by-standers 'escalated' the situation and brought more bodies into the actual conflict; hence the rise in casualty admissions, as well as the severity of them.....
Which is an interesting insight into cause and effect.... so often, doing something that you THINK will reduce risk, actually have a perverse oppoistie effect, actually increasing them, begging yet more precaution.
This is life... its dangerous, and as yet no-one has been known to get out alive.... deal with it as you will!
But Bikes?
In the grander scheme, he types lighting another cigarette, are small potatoes.
IF you want one, go get one, and dismiss or ignore the doom and gloom merchants that probably haven't got a CLUE what the actual risks or possible severities may be..... just take note that you aught have some clue of the REAL risks before you do.... and have them risks in context.
Like I say; you stand as much real chance of being injured or killed on a Friday night in town, as you do commuting all week on a motorbike... which risks are you happier to take?
Personally, forty years of biking, and I still ride. I stopped doing brummie broad street evenings a LONG time ago..... but what do YOU preffer? ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
Posted: 20:13 - 13 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
|
|
He's been Teffed ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
recman |
This post is not being displayed .
|
recman World Chat Champion
Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Riejufixing |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Riejufixing World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
weasley |
This post is not being displayed .
|
weasley World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 138 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
|
|
|
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.16 Sec - Server Load: 0.53 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 161.94 Kb
|