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DJMadness29 |
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DJMadness29 L Plate Warrior
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:41 - 10 Dec 2018 Post subject: Re: Keeway RK 125 Running Issues |
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DJMadness29 wrote: | Good Evening All.
I've got a 2016 Keeway RK125 as my first bike and I'm basically using it to try and learn how motorbikes work, and to commute 10ish miles each way to work. I'm a car mechanic by trade so can work most bits out but having issues that are outside my knowledge.
Now I know the Chinese bikes are not very good but it cost me 450 quid so using it as a starter bike. I also know that they are not particularly fast, being that I am an 18 stone, 6"1 lad, but I think this is slow.
When riding in any gear the bike stutters and hesitates. It doesn't smoothly rev through the range. The quickest I've been on it is 41mph (using a speedo app as the speedo is about 10mph out) on a flat straight road with the wind behind me and it was struggling. Going into the wind on the way back was about 28mph. It also has a lot of vibration through the bike, especially through the right foot peg.
The problem is I didn't get any manual with the bike, nor can I find much information online about it so unsure about servicing. I've carried out an oil change and replaced the spark plug. Any advice on what could cause it? I think I'm going to end up taking it to a garage to be looked over but thought I'd ask on here first. I know I've probably not given the best description of the fault but I'll do my best to answer any questions on it.
Cheers
Dan |
It doesn't sound desperate, Dan. Should do 60-ish I guess. Look to the air intake and carburettor first, take that apart and blow it through with air, don't poke wires through jets and so on (a nylon bristle should be OK). I wouldn't say that Chinese bikes are that bad but look after the necessities. Change the oil often and regularly as you seem to be doing, use something decent. You should be able to find a manual online. |
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McHattrick |
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McHattrick Nova Slayer
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jaffa90 |
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jaffa90 World Chat Champion
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DJMadness29 |
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DJMadness29 L Plate Warrior
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Posted: 00:49 - 11 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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We've had the carb off (confusion with the choke) and been cleaned. Have checked the air filter and has oil on it but think this is normal? (Like the old pipercross filters).
Thanks for the Manual but that is for the RKV and I've got the RK. Guessing the engine is similar but mines got drum rears not hydraulic.
The other thing to go along with it is that the bike cuts out when I come off the throttle. I have adjusted the idle to about 1200rpm but it drops when I come to a standstill and dies. Queue me trying to get it into neutral with a slightly iffy gearbox... |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Posted: 11:00 - 11 Dec 2018 Post subject: newbie |
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I've got a 2016 Keeway RK125 as my first bike and I'm basically using it to try and learn how motorbikes work, and to commute 10ish miles each way to work. I'm a car mechanic by trade so can work most bits out but having issues that are outside my knowledge.
Use your knowledge and experience and apply it to the bike.
If it was a car, what question would you ask the car driver ?
Fuel problems can sometimes seem like an ign problem from time to time, and visa versa.
So rule one system out. Some of you know whats coming next but not everyone knows about these, but the OP will know what a "node" is.
Get some red neon plug caps, make an adapator ( is used the internals from an old spark plug, made and welded to that a suitable "nipple ,socket" ( sounds real kinky but you will suss what I mean when you have a neon in your had ) so the red neon plug caps fits in line between your bikes plug ( with screw on nipple fitted ) and the oe plug cap.
The neon will flash ( just like a node when used ) when ht passes thru the neon plug cap. If the flashes dissappear when the problem is happening, then summut is wrong with the ign yes!
If the bike is ridden at nigh on a safe road, preferably going up hill ( max "load" yes ) yuo will easily see the flashing. They are inexpensive and a good visible indicator of ht, and its strength.
If you have a 12v laptop or scope, then use that.
Rule in or out the ign first.
As to the rest of the bike, look at the parts exploded views and manual. If its a Honda cg based engine use cmsnl for the exploded views as an example. ____________________ nuts about bikes |
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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DJMadness29 |
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DJMadness29 L Plate Warrior
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Posted: 23:40 - 11 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Mileage is about 19000 km. No service history. Few parts I've managed to order for it are Lexmoto Arrow parts (Brake pads and kick start).
I haven't got any footage whilst riding as I haven't got a cam. I might be able to record on my phone but I use it as my speedo so footage wouldn't be good. I don't think it sounds too bad on idle and will rev to 9k without any issues.
When it dies its just like the idle has been set slightly too low. Just starts to cough a little bit then goes. Quick shift into neutral and starts on the button. If I hold the revs up a little then it doesn't happen.
I never said I was a good mechanic
No crap in the carb at all, seems to rev freely when in neutral (ill try and get a video tomorrow), Doesn't change if im in the saddle, just when driving. Will check the engine bolts tomorow.
My plan is to get into work a bit early tomorrow and take the air filter out and clean it. I've read to clean it, then dry it, then soak it in oil (engine?) then leave it to dry again (I didn't think it would dry if soaked in oil). Does this sound right?
Noticed the front brake pads was catching slightly then remembered that the pin had seized. So I've unseized that then noticed this...
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/DJMadness29/20181211_142717.jpg
Which is this pipe
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/DJMadness29/20181211_142721.jpg
That comes from this (don't know what it is? anyone help?)
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/DJMadness29/20181211_142743.jpg
So we noticed that it was kinked and not letting any air through. We've temporarily manufactured a repair (read bodged) until I can find a proper replacement. It looks like PO has just put any old pipe on it and it wasn't strong enough. But on the way home I managed to get to 48mph. Seemed a lot happier too. Still hessitating a bit but a lot better than it was.
I think I need to try and reset the carb settings again now.
Also noticed that a breather pipe had been blocked off between the engine and the carb...
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/DJMadness29/20181211_142733.jpg
Any Ideas where this should lead to??
Sorry about the bad photos the room I store the bike in at work has really pants lighting.
Cheers |
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jaffa90 |
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jaffa90 World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:49 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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It is hard to see what's what in that picture; what is going on between the flanges pulled together by the bolts? |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 13:52 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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It's a very low rent generic Chink build bike.
Generic Chinky/Asian motorbike licence law puts a mandatory 55mph speed limit on 125's, and most that we get are either geared down so they cant exceed that or have too little power to go beyond any-way.
55mph flat out is about thier limit.
A-N-D there's small issue of playing tunes on the gears.
How are you riding the thing?
It likely has the oomh low down to pull about 35-40mph in top gear, and very very common, particularly with milenial learned car drivers taught to change up to the tallest cog ASAP for enviro-mental-ism... to try do same on little low powered bike that HAS to be 'threashed' to get the revs up where the little power these things may make, as 'good' and as 'stock' might have.....
Ie rev the thing till its threatening to chuck a tappet or con-rod, in every gear, you MIGHT just get something close to top, 55mph speed from it.
Short shift... using gears not revs, very easy to get into fifth gear before you are doing 40mph, cos they 'seem' to have the ommph to pull it..... but try accelerating, that's your lot, they wont go no faster, cos the revs are always too low to deliver the power they need to go faster, so they dont... you have to cog down a gear, or two, to get the revs up, and get at the small power they may have, to get them to accelerate, and you will likely still only get to around 50ish in forth before they run out of puff, and fifth gear IS pretty much a genuine over-drive that just knocks the revs back down the range, where there isn't the power to pull the speed you want to go, so they will let you 'hold' a road speed, but that's about it.
May be not a lot wrong with the bike, what-so-ever, just the way you are trying to ride it.....
As to your size and weight, that should make not a lot of odds.
Force = Mass times acceleration.... your weight might mean it accelerates a bit less rapidly... but it's not likely to rip any-ones arms out to start with! But top speed occurs when the force made by engine's power equals the drag force from wind. I would guess that as a hefy six footer, you probably have a larger frontal area for wind to drag on... but still... it's no great shakes under 60mph, and you likely loose as much frontal area ducking your head down a bit, when your size, as presented to the air-flow, wont be much if any different to a 6 stone weekling, and you wont be topping out any lower than they would.
Oh-Kay.... eliminate the simple and obvious first, and thoise how you ride are the most simple and most obvious (at least to e!.. Common sense it seems isn't all that common, but still!)
So onto mechanical malaise... and top of the list is its a 125....... and more, a second hand 125, likely to have suffered unpety previouse owners all grumpling its slow as shite, and not doing any basic maintenance.
LOOKS like its got the old tried and tested... to destruction... CG copy motor in it, with common lobe cam and push-rods.
People seem rather scared of basic maintenance on a motorbike, which demand looking at oily bits... so they dont... even if they have the notion they should do some maintenance, which too many dont, expecting the thing to work on the button like a washing machine.....
BUT... basic service procedures include checking the valve clerances.... best done with the proper Honda tappet key and lock-nut spanner.... about £15 from Dave Silvers Spares, and maybe a cranked feeler guage, you can bend yourself from soimething from halfrauds for under a fiver.....
OTMH the service schedule for genuine Honda's says that these need doing about every 2ooo miles, or every other oil-change. I would shorten that on a second hand bike, I was learning the foibles of to every oil change, and see how it goes for a few.....especially on a Chink where the metal may be a tad 'soft'
But.... nail that one, eliminate the variable......
Stick a compression tester on it.... its a little one-lunger.... uise a decent screw in type tester to get a more accurate and meaningful figure, and remember to spin the thing up on the e-start not try and do it on the kicker, with the threottle wide open so it can suck some air to actually compress some!
Fit new spark plug..... timing should be pretty much factory fixed for life thanks to CDI electrickery... make sure no-oine has dicked with it and should be good to go.....
Carburettors TEND to be one of THE most reliable devioces on a motorbike, and they dont get much simpler than the simple cable slide carb on a single cylinder engine!
Air passed over hole drilled at 90 degrees, and via the pitot principle creates a vacuum in the cross drilling that sucks up petrol from the float bowl. A slide above the hole acts as a gate valve to control the amoint of air that can got in, and a needle hanging from that changes the effective size of the cross drilling, as the slide and needle go up and down, to keep the mixture strength about right....
There Is in a carburettor bog all moving parts, and very few of them have any rubbing surfaces, and thems that may, have effall load on them to make anything 'wear out'... as set by the factory, they PRETTY MUCH, should be fit and forget... they tend only to get effed up by fiddle fingers messing with the damg things and the lore that says "Have you Cleaned the Carburettor?!
Its been off, its been stripped, its been fiddle fingered... de-fiddle-finger it.... clean it, re-asemble it, USE NICE NEW GASKETS!!!! in the carb and in the flage it bots to where needed! Or it wont seal too well, and whatever 'suck' it aught to have, it probably wont see!!!
Set to book settings, it SHOULD be good to go.....
So if it DONT..... simple and obviouse knocked off the list.... could be that the bores worn out, piston riongs aren't sealing and or the valves and or valve guides are leaking, and the motor is pretty much bludgered and in need of full and proper recon.....
Actually not that hard on a CG copy motor, or expensive; IOSTR that a replacement piston and cylinder assembly, is around about £30, with rings and gaskets, its probably cheaper than trying to find some-one with a milling machine little enough to 'rebore' the one you got!
And that's last thing on the list.... if with new barel and lapped valves you cant get it to work, you have either done something very very wrong, or missed something not so obviouse, so go back and check, and tripple check.
These are NOT overly complicated or sophisticated engines, and as said, so often they are fiddle-fingered into oblivion by folk deturmined to not work logically, and not look at scary oily bits, wasting time and effort and money pulling sub systems like the carb or ignition to bits, like a drunk looking for his car keys under the street-lamp, because that's where they WANT them to be, not where they probably are, in the gutter under the chuffing car door, where they tried to get them in the lock!
But Hey... you the mechanic... even anot so good one, should be able to grasp basic concepts here, and get the thing working again... it AINT rocket science, believe me!
So stop looking for things to blame, and hoping to get a super-ninetendo super-cheat code to put all to rights.... JUST apply good old fashioned common sense and logic; be brave, look at scary oily bots, get the right tools, and work systematically....
And learn to thrash it like it was built to be using revs not gears.....
Best of luck. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:56 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: 125 |
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The ht lead looks chaffed in 2 places.......and there is that metal clip.......
The engine looks like a cg clones from the not so good pictures, the metal plate and angled pipe on top of the rocker cover looks like it could be a vent or breather, ( dont think its an oil supply to the rockers as in a cg that's in the cover and head ), does the larger diameter ribbed pipe go onto that ??
The alloy box thing, does that have 2 pipes, ones from the engine breather? and the other end to open air below the airbox, or may even plum into the air box.
The air filer, yes clean with solvent until clean, allow to dry, soak in engine oil ( usually ) and then ring or press out excess oil, it only needs to be damp not saturated.
The carb to engine connection looks as if it may have had a new bolt 6mm, and, the join with the next bit, is that all ok or leaking air ?
Does the tank have a vacuum petrol tap, or did have ??
Find the parts exploded views and descriptions of parts which can only help. Maybe the alloy box affair part number will appear on google???
Rule out ign fault, get and use a red neon plug cap for this, which can be used when you are actually riding the bike and flashes or lack of can be seen, when the fault happens.
Valve working clearance can be an issue and should be checked at least, but get a rocker cover gasket first. Do not be afraid to lift the lid but be warned about the oilway.......see cmsnl for a better understanding of a cg type engine.
You mentioned a seized brake caliper pin, how are the pads and does the front brake drag?? How are the back brakes and chain ???
Limited hp can be sapped away due to a dragging brake etc. etc. etc..
Tyre pressures all ok ? ____________________ nuts about bikes |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 23:31 - 12 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Riejufixing wrote: | Teflon-Mike wrote: | Generic Chinky/Asian motorbike licence law puts a mandatory 55mph speed limit on 125's |
That's very interesting. Where's that detailed, please? |
Various different Asian durastictions have different rules; and there's hundreds of them!!!! But they made quite a few 150cc variants of Japanese 125's in or for Tialand, where I 'think' their equivalent of the unsupervised L-Plate laws didn't have the arbitery 125cc capacity cap. In India, I believe that they based the licence restrictions purely on speed capability, and bit like the old '50' trailer sticker here, they have a speed limit on the number-plate for bikes that are allowed to exceed, I think its 65Km/h.... very Indian bit of pragmatism that one; sort of says stuff the dodges trying to deter tuned two-strokes, or folk getting round the laws buying YB100's and sticking DT175 cylinder's on them and stuff... just cut to the chase.... if it gets radar tripped over 50mph, your nicked san-jit!
The actual Chinese mainland 55mph limit, is similar, and I 'think' I actually found quoted in the Haynes Book of generic Chinky bikes.... but cant remember exactly....
Actually for OP a worthy read. I cant remember the actual Haynes No. But, covers most of the gerry-built chink four-strokes, singles and twins, with derivatives of the Honda push-rod CG or over-head-cam XL motors, the Suzuki GN lump, the Yamaha SR engine, and a couple of others. Has useful identification guide in it to help determine which original source engine was used in the chow-mein confection you have. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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DJMadness29 |
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DJMadness29 L Plate Warrior
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Posted: 11:42 - 14 Dec 2018 Post subject: 125 |
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Yes get a rocker cover gasket and see cmsnl for whats under it, it will be similar.
No need for the rule of 9 with this, but you are aware of the flywheel marks, T and F. I will let you suss out there meaning.
You know the correct valve working clearance?
can you take some more pictures with the tank off showing the rocker cover ( to show you oil way ) and where the rocker cover "breather goes to, the metal plate and pipe.
Also take a pic of the largish rubber pipe and where it goes to/from.
Also a pic of the tanks fuel tap.
Also of the ht coil, the lead may be "glued" in rather than replaceable.
Is the front brake caliper free, a pic of that would also help. You are aware of the different types of caliper, a pic would identify the type on your bike.
your original post contains.......When riding in any gear the bike stutters and hesitates. It doesn't smoothly rev through the range.
So, get the red neon plug cap for ht testing ( loss of ht, uneven ht, reduced ht strength ) to either identify a ht fault and rule that in as a possible ( there may be other faults as well ) or rule that out.
How are the engine bolts for being tight??
#
The box thing, a better pic of that and where the pipes go......
looking on the parts site you mentioned.....
ps, the air box picture with water?? i hope none has now got into the engine!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take the plug out and turn engine over, just in case you end up with a HYDRAULIC LOCK due to water in the cylinder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ____________________ nuts about bikes |
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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bikenut |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 22:53 - 14 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Why do you think you need a rocker cover seal, to do tappets?
You did them on an Austin 'A'? Had a cork seal twixt cover and head, wobbly damn thing & pain to get ti sit in the cover rebate & not squish out at some point.... most often the bit you cant see, esp on an in-line 'A' like in a moggy or midget, by the bulkhead....
But... CG not a lot different, big rubber seal like on a pressurer cooker lid only not having to hold anywhere near the pressure!
IE, they are 'Re-Useable'!!!!!
Stop making excuses GO LOOK AT GREASY BITS!
Oil in air-box has come from the crank-case breather venting....... hints at excessive crank-case pressure; possibly from over-filled oil.... just as likely from blow-by past the piston rings....
see earlier comments about how cheap new cylinder/piston kits are for these things, and eliminating the stupid/obvious and being brave looking at greasy bits!
These are simple little engines without many bits in them; you could do a top end rebuild in an afternoon on one, OR waste days scratching your head trying to avoid looking at anything that may have oil on it.... your call... and your a chuffin mechanic ffs! This 'real' mechanics not IT Techie stuff! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 136 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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