Derestricting 50cc.

[Riejufixing]

Well, it happened. The Boy, now 17, has a 50cc derestricted by the trivial method of unplugging a wire and plugging a switched live into where the original was plugged in (fitting a SPDT switch or a DPDT switch with poles in parallel would be ideal).

The difference? Well, 40MPH is the new top speed, but it's not really about that.

What it is about is the effect on following drivers. Being behind something doing a fixed 30MPH is quite frustrating, and leads to severe tailgating. Having followed at both 30MPH and 40MPH, there's a huge difference. Yes, it can still be frustrating to be stuck behind something doing 40, but it's not anything like as bad.

Wouldn't it be good if legislation was changed....

HOLLOW LAUGH.

[M.C]

What bike?

[Riejufixing]

[M.C]

[Riejufixing]

[M.C]

I genuinely thought they were limited to 28mph due to being shit , maybe a small restriction but I wouldn't have expected 40mph out of one, however I think Iain had a Baotian and got it to that and beyond with more tweaking.

I guess it depends on the bike? It's listed as 4bhp () but they list the V-CLIC* at 2.6bhp which's what I had in mind for a 4-stroke 50.

*normally about now someone comes along to say they have the same engine or something

[Sister Sledge]

We did it all the time with our 50s back in the day. For me I definitely noticed that it was safer - we can use brakes to avoid trouble but a little more speed/power works too.

If things are too restricted then they become dangerous. 28 mph isn't 30 - the speed that everyone else is doing. Of course they'll be cursing you for going a bit too slow.
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CCM 404 DS

[Riejufixing]

[Riejufixing]

[Teflon-Mike]

The 'problem' with mopeds, is that they have a number plate. And I have to slough your suggestion that he's ANY better off, and certainly 'safer' travelling at 40 compared to legally mandated 28, with a tail-gating twit up his chuff, getting 'frustrated'.

First, where is he getting tail gated?
Next, if he's likely to get tail gated, why's he gone there?
Next, how 'fast' do you thin he should be allowed to go, to save frustrating following drivers? 50? 60? 70? Curiously I've been tailgated at over 120.. maybe we should make Hyabusa's mandatory on the grounds of 'safety'!!!

It's a moped; a motorised push bike, and as such likely slower than a half fit kid on a push bike. Would you suggest that cos a push bike cant go any faster the law should be changed to... oooh.. Lets say STOP cars being able to go any faster...... hmmm.

The 'problem' is that he's on a bit of road with other traffic travelling at a disparately faster speed..... he aint the only one.... tractors, lawn mowers, milk-floats, and many other vehicles cant go any faster either. Even HGV's are supposed to be regulated to 55mph and have lower speed limits than posted on many roads!

Most slower vehicles, though, do fill a pretty large proportion of the lane, and following, faster vehicles have to be a bit more thoughtful before they try passing them, And push-bikes can take refuge... some-times..... on the psycopath.... 'cos they don't have a number-plate.

Fact that a moped has a number-plate, like Daddy's car, gives 'ideas' that as a motor vehicle, it aught be allowed to go as fast as other motor vehicles.... in fact, it does... it is about as fast as a self-propelled lawn mower or milk-float..... they are motor-vehicles.... B-U-T, like mopeds, not so common as cars... which generically usually try going every where at at least five over posted speed limit......

Begs query here, IS the moped, REALLY the problem here, or the other, potentially faster vehicles, OR the people trying to coax them to that higher, probably illegal speed? And IF its not how fast a moped may go, or how fast a milk-float, or what sped the governor is set on an arctic..... WHAT is the real problem?

Used to be on the first page of the highway code "Pay due respect to ALL other road-users".... hmmm.....

BIG chunk of the problem with peds then is NOT the machines of the regulations around them that limit them to lower velocities, it IS the perceptions of their owners and other road users, so much more accustomed to 'cars'....

This is NOT something you can particularly regulate for.....

Making a moped faster, DOES NOT make it any safer.... just encourages the rider to TRY getting into the frey with faster traffic that might be frustrated by it, and makes them that more vulnerable, travelling that much faster when the inevitable happens.

HOWEVER.... in principle, YES, I think they should change the moped laws. But I suspect you wont much like my suggested revisions to them....

The moped laws were introduced in 1973, to give 16 year olds a way to get to and from, presumably work, when you could still leave school, I believe at 14 years old....

Last year of secondary school, my eldest was grumbling that he wasn't allowed to leave, they had raised the leaving age to 18... and there were a lot of work arounds with 16 year olds still beeing deemed to be 'at school' when they went to the 6th form tech, oft to do a work-placement course....Hmmm....

The moped regulations are something of a historical anathema then, and do they really have a place, let alone a reason, in modern, far too oft nanny state society? BIG debate there.... but still.

Why 16 for a moped, and 17 for a car? Whty 24 for a big bike? Why in other durastictions are other ages imposed.... I had a Driving licence in Canada at 14, and was driving a 6.6 litre ruddy TransAm, on public roads for gawds sake!!!

There IS a very very big can of worms beneath all this..... and in my not-so-humble opinion, there are far more middle aged men, jumping onto ludicrously fast big-bikes via DAS rules, and acting out teenage fantasies, using them as week-end play things, without the 'Stupid Boy' incentives to be even a 'bit' sensible having to get to work on the thing on a Monday Morning.....

That begs the conundrum.... sauces for goose and gander.... IF as I oft suggest, age is no measure, let alone guarantee of maturity, let alone responsibility, IF we look at the moped laws, should we NOT look at the WHOLE motorcycle licensing, if not vehicle licencing system as a whole?

PERSONALLY, I say get-em-young..... get a child before hormones start to kick in, say, under the age of 11, they are a tad morte responsive to being taught anything... THAT is when you should stick them on a motorbike.... not wait until they are near grown up, and hormones are raging, and they are torn between getting pizzed, getting wrecked, getting some-one (or just getting!) up the duff, and the unfairness of NOT being allowed all the privileges of being a grown-up, whilst still having all the indulgences of being a child.....

Push bikes.... kids are given them for christmas each year; sold in Toys-R-Us along side the my little mutant pony toy, that's how they are oft perceived... as toys.... and that's where it starts.

IF wheels are less than I think 10" diameter, they are as far as road law is concerned a 'pavement-cycle', and can be ridden on the foot-path.... If the wheels are bigger, then they are a 'Road-Vehicle' and technically they should ONLY be ridden on the road, and riders obey the high-way-code....

Hmmm......

Little hobby horse here, and an argument I had with eldest's PE teacher, over a decade ago, when he decided to take his class through the local woods doing 'mountain biking' as part of PE..... GREAT! Lets break the law, and tell kids that its perfectly fine to cycle on the foot-path... even though is against the law..... And you head down an unsurfaced right of way, and get accosted by a full grown idiot in lycra, grumbling that you have NO BUSINESS taking a motor-vehicle through the woods.... on a ROAD with vehicular rights, and that they are entirely justified taking a push-bike down a foot-path, sending hikers and dog walkers hither and dither into the nettles, cos, well, its a push-bike, and they is keeping fit, and not spewing harmful exhaust smoke?!?!?

And all of a sudden... its NOT an argument of law, its an argument of 'values', and the law is an ass, to one side or other, either which way, unless its in favour of their NIMBY interests....

And its an argument, in which Mopeds come, and are an infinitesimal small part of, given how many registered examples there are, and how short a part of any-ones driving career they may be.

Back to age vs maturity...... To MY mind there is effall correlation twixt the two, so PERHAPS, we should get rid of ALL arbitary licence age eligibility?

IF some-one can prove the competence and responsibility to poass the driving test for ANY vehicle.... let'em have it.... if they is daft, they wont keep that licence long.... plod will prosecute them for breaking the law and take licence away, or insurance will lamb them with punitive premiums to curtail their over indulgence..... SHOULD it be enshrined in law, and on something as tentatively inaccurate and arbitrary as a birthday?

Mopeds and motorbikes? Oh-Kay.... scrap the entire system.

I was riding bikes, and big ones (off-road) before I was a teenger..... I could handle them, I could, for the most part be relatively mature and responsible.... ish. Why shouldn't any-one else?

Unsupervised L-Plating is an anachronism of EU law and a bit of historical legacy like the moped laws... lets scrap it.

Lets say that ANY-ONE of ANY age can apply for a provisional licence. Now, IF they want to head out on the road, they can only do so under appropriate, qualified supervision; and in the case of bikes, thet I think aught be carried over to other licence groups, they have to complete a CBT course to 'validate' that provisional entitlement... Ie shoe at least 'some' responsibility, maturity and basic competence, before they are even allowed to go out on the public road as a 'Learner'.

L-Plate laws? As now, IF we deem it appropriate that wobbling around a car-park for a few hours, is 'enough' to be allowed to go solo, on the public road? Fuckit... give them a chuffin licence for it, and be done.... leave it to natural selection, plod and the insurance companies to weed out the ones that might not really be up to it, or abuse it.

IF, a few hours wobbling round cones ISN'T considered enough to ensure that a rider is mature, responsible and up to standard.... we shouldn't be letting folk out on the road, on their own with nothing more, to start with! They aught have to pass tests, liker all other licence groups first..... so contrive system that does so!

Stepped licence system, as we have it, is a mule of legislation, a-n-d, based around arbitery age eligibility is something of an anachronism. Especially when they similteniousely LOWERED the age to get an HGV licence from I believe it was 21, to 17! And RIASED the age to get a full-fat Ride-What-You-Like motorbike licence, incrementally, like the frog in the saucepan, from 17, to 24!!!

Whilst maintaining the fast-track of DAS to allow riders over 24, to pretty much forgo any kind of incremental apprenticeship, and leap-frog straight to big-bikes.....

Big chunk of NIMBY thinking being pandered to there In my not-so-humble opinion!

Why, should a thirty something, be fast tracked to a full licence, so that they may, all too often, go get the latest crotch rocket, to use as a play-thing on Sunny Sundays, the risks of totalling the thing damped by the likelihood of a car on the drive to get them to work in the morning....

Yet.... 17 year old, to whom a motorbike is likely thier largest financial asset, and sole means of transport, who is likely as if not more mature and responsible on the road, 'cos they cant afford to crash, has to suffer no more than a 125? Which is barely adequate to get them to and from work, let alone indulge in say, cross eurpean touring come their holidays loaded with girlfriend and camping kit!

As is, 'The System' panders to the impatient, and vaunts nothing more than 'age' as a virtue, rather than skill, or attitude.

Get rid of DAS..... get rid of age restrictions. IF a teenager can pass tests, let them ride what they like.

IF, its deemed appropriate that some sort of stepped licence system is needed, because? Well, big, high performance bikes are really SO much more dangerous and riders need to prove they can sensibly handle all that performance.... well.... then the three tier system for light-wights, middle-weights and everything else MAY be appropriate.... and the tests, should reflect that..... As is, the tests are exactly the chuffin SAME for A1-125 only licence, A2 - 45bhp 'restricted/middleweight' licence and the Ride-What-You-Like 'A'?!?!?!

Eh? There the same chufin tests! HOW does that weed out them that might be up to riding a 900, from thems that should only be allowed a scooter!! It DOESN'T is the short answer.. And with DAS fast track letting folk by-pas stages purely by dint of age, it makes a mockery of the entire notion.

If 'kid' can pass tests, they can pas test.. let them get on with it.. and if they can afford a 900, and the tax and insurance, so be it... if risk of loosing thier money totalling it, risk of loosing their licence being daft on it, dont kerb thier enthusiasm some, pain, financial woe and having to catch the bus when licence privileges revoked, should.

If some sort of tiered or progressive licence system, is deemed appropriate... its appropriate.... why should folk over some arbitery age threshold get to fast track the progression? Make EVERY ONE, from pre-teen to midl-life crisis sufferer WORK their way through the rankings... age should NOT come into it.

Back to the mopeds.....

They are beggared by the moped laws, and that number plate. Under an age independent system, riders could choose whether to ride one or not... its then 'just' a low performance motorcycle... and witrhout an L-Plate on the back acting as red-rag to bully driver, theyt probably have an easier time of it... AND be a little more prudent about trying to cut it with the Audi-Cochs on the by-pass up thier chuff.. and if thy want faster to get in that game, buty a bigger bike, and if needs be, take tests to be allowed to ride it... OR simply remember its a motorised push-bike, and NOT try getting into that game, just cos they have a number-plate like mummy's kiddie carrier, and take the back-roads, or the push-bike so they can use the psycopaths.....

YES the law should be changed.... B-U-T.... the changes needed that might make a difference, probably aren't the ones you would like, that you can feel good and cleaver trying to cheat, de-restricting' a 50 to go faster than the restrictions, that are in law, and cant be removed with a spanner, might permit.

The law may be an ass, but its still the law..... so just out of interest, 17 year old on tuned 50 that can exceed legally mandated moped restrictions.... is it insured as a motorcycle, all mods, declared? Is it MOT'd as a motorcycle, with higher C&U requirements and standards applied? Or should the law be changed just to suit your and your lads NIMBY aspirations and make what he's doing legal... not him?

It's all interlinked... and REALLY the problem here isn't the moped, or moped laws, its people.... and significantly people in cars, expecting everything to go as fast as they want to, not what the vehicle might be capable of, or the sign permits...

Daft question.... IF your car went no faster than the 28mph permitted by moped licence entitlement.. if YOU didn't feel so frustrated going that slow, IF all the cars behind you actually obeyed the 2-second rule and didn't try clambering up your exhaust pipe.... like they should... would you feel quite so righteous helping your lad to break the laws with his moped?

Is it REALLY the laws that are the problem here... if not, what is?
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Ste]

Teffed right in the face!!!

Derestrict the 50cc by selling it and buying a 125.

Then the best upgrade you can do for the 125 is getting rid of the L plates.

Full license, grown man, we're pretty busy here.

[M.C]

[Riejufixing]

[Riejufixing]

[Sister Sledge]

Kin ell that's a big heap to read!

OK then so maturity is key? How about letting kids de-restrict their peds and if they're clever enough to know how to do it, they're safe enough to ride it??

While we're on about old laws etc can we ban horses from the public highway?
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CCM 404 DS

[wr6133]

[Ste]

[Riejufixing]

[flearider]

[Teflon-Mike]

[u33db]