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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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 Posted: 01:27 - 15 Jan 2019  Post subject: |
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I've got news for Donk, it's not even been 30 years since that same stance was here in the UK. How civilised we are eh?
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| BTTD |
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BTTD
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Posted: 14:54 - 15 Jan 2019  Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | | jnw010 wrote: | The most successful and liberal societies that have ever existed are based on Christian morals.
You might not like the church as an organisation or the judgemental piousness of some of it's adherents, but as a general moral code Christianity scores some points.  |
Sorry but that's absolute bollocks, the church had times when it was just as bad as all the rest, so Christian morals mean jack all. People use whatever religion is at hand to justify whatever bad shit they want to get up to. |
My point was that you need to segregate the church as an organisation from the moral teachings. The underlying basis for our society in the UK is Christianity, but the UK has never been run by the church.
| Lord Percy wrote: | The most successful and liberal societies tend to be those with an economy strong and established enough for people to stop relying on faith for security and happiness. |
I'm not sure that argument makes sense. Successful societies are successful because they have a strong and established economy, and those societies are liberal because nobody believes in any God.
How did those societies develop strong and established economies, and what was the basis for society while that was happening?
Alternatively, Saudi Arabia has a strong and stable economy (fck ton of oil and very rich). It is not a liberal society. With all that money do they need to rely on faith for security and happiness? Why isn't it the most progressive society on earth?
My thoughts on it is that there are moral codes that we accept as the norm now, which historically just weren't. These ways of living were wrapped up as religions at some point and spread and enforced by their organisations: church, mosque, synagogue etc. Out of all flavours the countries that were predominantly Christian have progressed further than others in respect of modern day personal freedoms and living standards.
The view that religion has held humanity back for thousands of years doesn't ring true to me.
Now if you said that some extreme religions are trying to take humanity back thousands of years.....  |
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| Pjay |
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Pjay
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| bhinso |
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bhinso
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 16:28 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | | bhinso wrote: | Kenya is a majority Christian Country (something like 80%)
Al-Shabaab claimed that the attack was "a response to US President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel"
lol so all Trumpet's fault.
Probably Brexit to blame too... |
Most Muslim terrorism is carried out in mainly Christian countries by a Muslim minority though, isn’t it? |
I would say there's a good deal more Islamic terrorism against muslims and non muslims in their own countries. We're just overspill.
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| M.C |
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M.C
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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 16:57 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
I would say there's a good deal more Islamic terrorism against muslims and non muslims in their own countries. We're just overspill. |
Is it terrorism or civil war in their own countries though? A lot of that is one flavor of third world fuckwit, tribe of Muslims against another. |
It's terrorism if you define it by the tactics used, wherever it is prosecuted. It may be within a civil, or rather religious war context, but it's still terrorism if you take it apparently arbitrarily into the midst of a civilian population.
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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| Posted: 17:10 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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| Monkeywrencher wrote: | | mpd72 CPT wrote: |
Is it terrorism or civil war in their own countries though? A lot of that is one flavor of third world fuckwit, tribe of Muslims against another. |
How does it being against muslims mean it's not islamist terrorism? |
I see it like this...
Because the victims are not being targeted as non Muslims. This is the whole aim of Islamic terrorism, to kill non believers.
Much in the same way that the War of the Roses wasn't Lancastrian Christian terrorists targeting Yorkshire Christians because of their religion. It was a civil war between "tribes" from different regions.
If Muslims kill other Muslims in their own country because they're different tribes and different flavours of Islam, I see it as a tribal war. If they target people based purely on their religion, then I label it as Islamic terrorism.
If they target Infidels in non Muslim countries, there's no doubt that it's Islamic terrorism for me.
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| BTTD |
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BTTD
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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 17:17 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: |
If they target Infidels in non Muslim countries, there's no doubt that it's Islamic terrorism for me. |
If ISIS managed to land an invasion fleet on our south coast, all fully armed to the teeth, and proceeded to attack military installations and centres of communication etc, is that terrorism? It would still fit the criteria you have given above.
It's just a question of using definitions correctly, doesn't need to change what you think about certain groups or ideologies.
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| M.C |
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M.C
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| Posted: 18:09 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | mpd72 CPT wrote: |
If they target Infidels in non Muslim countries, there's no doubt that it's Islamic terrorism for me. |
If ISIS managed to land an invasion fleet on our south coast, all fully armed to the teeth, and proceeded to attack military installations and centres of communication etc, is that terrorism? It would still fit the criteria you have given above.
It's just a question of using definitions correctly, doesn't need to change what you think about certain groups or ideologies. |
No, because they’d be targeting military, not civilian infidels.
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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 19:03 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
If ISIS managed to land an invasion fleet on our south coast, all fully armed to the teeth, and proceeded to attack military installations and centres of communication etc, is that terrorism? It would still fit the criteria you have given above.
It's just a question of using definitions correctly, doesn't need to change what you think about certain groups or ideologies. |
No, because they’d be targeting military, not civilian infidels. |
Well, yes, the definition means targeting civilians as it is generally accepted, but my point is, it is not given where this has to happen. The idea behind terrorist attacks is that you don't know when and where they will strike, and therefore cannot organise a ready response to the threat, hence the terror aspect. This happens in Kabul as much as in London or Manchester or Paris. They might well take out people who believe in their cause, even in Kabul, as all too often occurs. With a suicide vest in the middle of a busy city street, you can't know who you'll kill.
I think civil war is a wider definition that can encompass acts of terrorism. And even civil war can spill beyond borders.
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 23:44 - 17 Jan 2019 Post subject: |
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So terrorism as the IRA carried out wasn't really terrorism, because they're both a different flavour of sky fairy following?
That's basically what Donk is saying right, given Muslim on Muslim is just that, despite the different flavours being attacked because they follow the inferior flavour compared to the attacker? Yes?
What a time to be alive, my signature has never sat better.
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| MCN |
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MCN
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 93 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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